The music was better years ago.
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Entercom's alternative experiment not a success?
- Thread starter tall_guy1
- Start date
The music was better years ago.
This is a sign that you're too old to program an alternative station right now. There's great alternative music out there (in rock, pop, rap, metal, AND country form), but Alternative isn't playing a hell of a lot of it. I'll even give you a small playlist of the good stuff if you want, trust me, it exists (even if some of it is on Active and AAA instead of Alt).
What makes things messy is that a lot of the best songs on the chart have uphill battles to climb because of iHeart's usual conservatism and Entercom trying to game the format to become pop-leaning instead of its traditional rock-lean. It's a double whammy that's difficult to overcome; even Alt staples are having trouble right now. And this isn't including a ton of great songs that aren't being given a proper chance in the first place.
When Chevelle and blackbear are next to each other on the Billboard Alternative chart, something's off.
I realize we're talking about traditional radio Alt format, but one has to consider the changes in the way new music/artists are reaching consumers. It isn't just labels signing a group or artist then distributing that music to stations in certain cities anymore. Much of the new talent is being distributed and discovered via YouTube, Instagram, Reddit, and to an extent; Farsebook. More recently this includes some streaming providers like Slacker, Deezer, and Spotify. Stations are being bypassed with artists distributing direct to potential listeners via digital media.
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I'm not a music critic. That wasn't a qualitative statement. That was a statement about music having an impact. Right now there's a lot of rock that exists in its own bubble. Even people in the music business aren't aware of it. How any of the artists you listed performed on the Grammy Awards last week? Here's how it's supposed to work: Artist makes music and that artist's team fights to get that music heard. That might mean the label promotion department. That might mean an artist publicity machine. That might mean marketing. Lots of mechanics on the artist side that simply isn't happening. Nobody is fighting to get their music heard. They just throw it on the internet, and wait for people to find it. Of course part of that is covid and the lack of festivals. The way a lot of us see the impact of music is to see it performed at the big festivals. But when you compare the machine that existed 20 years ago to what is there now, that's why the format worked better years ago. That needs to be fixed.
TikTok is a great way to see what a younger audience likes to listen to, and it should have some impact in what plays on the radio IF it fits format. And if you look at what songs are going viral because of TikTok, you can see that alternative rock still has a place in Gen Z’s playlists. “Cloud 9” by Beach Bunny, “Space Girl” by Frances Forever, and “Jealous” by Eyedress are all notable currents that are first and foremost alternative music. All are absent from the radio stations unofficially known as “The home of TikTok’s greatest hits!”, but I’ll give leeway on “Cloud 9” because it only went viral recently. TL;DR TikTok is a great tool. Don’t underestimate its ability to find format-friendly music.
And an easy way to track that is look at www.tiktok-charts.com
Yes, it lists the Top 100 songs on TikTok.
I apologize because I thought that was a qualitative statement.
I do think Alternative can't do what they've been doing for much longer. For the last 10 years, after they cast out the Active crossovers, they've been coasting on inoffensive indie pop, nostalgia, and some staples to keep the habitual listeners from switching them off. That's not tenable anymore. I know most Alt PDs like the inoffensive indie pop (way more than they liked the Active invaders in the 2000's), but it's not enough anymore. Gen Z has their own tastes, and they have different avenues to explore music other than the radio. They basically can construct their own custom radio on Spotify and Apple Music if they so desire. It's easy to throw up your hands and give up, but I think Gen Z can be lured to radio if you reach out to them and play what they like to hear.
narp raises a great point with Alternative-sounding songs blowing up. By the time you're done researching and focus-grouping the song, the moment's been lost. The smartest thing pop radio did this year was realize that "Driver's License" was blowing up, went "F*** the research", and just started playing the hell out of it. Alternative needs to get onboard with songs that fit their profile blowing up much faster than they are, and not just with Glass Animals' "Heat Waves" (which fits into the "inoffensive indie pop" mold that Alternative prefers). And even with "Heat Waves" it was slow going, the fact that it took 19 weeks to get to #1 is mind-numbingly dumb and Alt is lucky Zoomers are still playing the hell out of the song right now, and that pop has taken a liking to it.
You can't just play what you want your audience to hear anymore. You have to play some of what they want to hear too. If that's EYEDRESS, fine. If it's Bring Me The Horizon, fine. If it's Sara Kays (who AAA has wisely gotten onboard with), fine. You can still play your inoffensive indie pop, nostalgia golds, and staples, but it's not all you can play anymore.
Once again, that's where the promotion department at the label comes in. There's a way to BUILD that kind of momentum that happens in other genres. We know how to do it. We've done it before. But for some reason, it's been forgotten in alternative. So perhaps better music is overlooked and bypassed because the marketing is better on Billie Eilish and some of the poppier stuff. That wasn't the case 30 years ago. So sure, alternative-SOUNDING songs are blowing up ELSEWHERE, in other formats and genres because there's no place for them in alternative. I hear that all the time from musicians. They just want to be heard. If not in alternative, they'll take it to pop or country. They have a better chance there.
I don't know anyone in radio with an agenda, wanting to force music that the audience doesn't want to hear. That is so contrary to what we do and all the goals and motivations that drive us. The ONLY reason we play music is to attract an audience that's big enough to sell to advertisers. Sure we might hear a song we like and want to share it, but if it doesn't connect, we move on to something else. The CONNECTION is what it's about. That's why we all can't wait for concerts to get started again.
Exactly. Other than a couple Mom and Pop operations in small markets or failed LPFM's, I've never witnessed anyone programming a station who insists on programming unpopular content. To assume there are stations in larger markets who do so, is a complete fallacy.
Back before there were AMTs and callout, radio used to look for PDs with "golden" ears. People who could pick the hits just by hearing them. And there were a few, molded like Betty Breneman at KHJ or Ruth Meyers at WMCA. But most of us were just not that good, so we asked the audience.
When I did my first music test, about 40 years ago, I took the first 100 songs and scored them myself before the test. I was more than 20% off on about half of them. A lot of songs I loved were stiffs to the audience. I was an insider, and did not have enough "street" to make it happen. So I developed a new skill, which was in thorough analysis of what the listeners told me to play. I took the stiffs home and played them on the stereo there; I did not force them on the listener.
And one time I thought I could beat a competitor by playing a bigger, deeper library. I learned from that disaster, too.
Tiktok is mainstream, though. Probably even many of gen z who seek out alternative music roll their eyes at tiktok. If anything, alternative could start courting an older audience and stop worrying about younger demos to get success. Per example, 101 the fox and 949 kcmo are the two highest rated stations in kc by a large margin, and I'm guessing older demos help a lot.
The only true Alt station out there is WEQX. Alternative is suppose to be fragmented. Some songs are electronic. Some songs are rock’ish. Some songs are fun and poppy and some stuff is just folky. Fragmented? Not a bad thing! That is alternative. WEQX is also a privately owned station. Not corporate and doesn’t bring the money either. Maybe true alternative has no place on regular corporate radio.
"Corporate"* radio is usually simply any station programmed for as large an audience as possible when that audience is composed of listeners that a larger number of advertisers want to make their pitch to.
If a station appeals to a niche audience or one that is too young or too old for most advertisers to like, then it will fail if it is ad based.
* 99% of stations in the US are owned by some form of a corporation. I see the term "corporate" radio tossed around all the time as a negative quality applied to station groups. So, how many stations does an owner have to have to be "Corporate Radio" instead of just plain "Radio"?
A good example might be KEXP Seattle.
WEQX has been serving its "niche" audience for over 35 years, doesn't seem like a failure.
I'm sure it refers to the major groups that own large clusters in many markets. The ones with top-down programming driven by cost cutting policies. We all know who they are in the U.S.
WEQX is a rimshot to the Albany/Schenectady/Troy market and also to the Lebanon, NH, market. It only covers with a 60 dbu about 300,000 persons. It is reported to bill less than $50 k a month, but that is reasonable for a deep rimshot.
But it is hardly a good example. It's so small that the owner is also the GM, GSM and Traffic Manager. As a sales manager in Albany at a "corporate" station she would likely make more money.
The greatest cost-cutting has been among small stations and groups that have suffered the cuts from the pandemic and the ongoing reduction of local direct revenue due to clients going to localize web search based advertising. Those are the stations that, in the worst case, are fully automated and the owner manager only comes in to record the spots he sold while the owner's wife/husband/partner does traffic and billing from home and, maybe, does a swap shop show from their basement studio.
Group owners back in the 50's that were limited to 7 viable stations also mandated programming from the owner or president's office. Storer, Taft, Storz, RKO all the way down to the Paul Bunyan Network had people in charge of supervising local programming at each station. And if they could not figure out how to program, they hired Mike Joseph or Bill Drake or one of the many other consultants who told them what to do.
It's a great example. Not every radio station in the country has to be part of a megamillion dollar corporation to be successful. In fact, I'll bet the owner of WEQX isn't millions of dollars in debt, unlike most of the corporations you admire.
Maybe the owner likes being the GM, GSM and Traffic Manager, and doesn't have to worry if they'll have a still job next quarter.
Maybe the owner is thrilled with that kind of income, loves living in a beautiful town in Vermont and has no interest in living in the city and working for someone else in Albany.
Maybe the owner is proud to have a radio station that's known well beyond its local coverage area, and has received repeated accolades from local and national media.
Success isn't just measured by how much growth you can get quarter after quarter after quarter. That's the measure of success on Wall Street, not Main Street, and it's never enough for them anyway.
WEQX stands as a model of what radio can and should be in America. The proverbial "mom and pop" station that we're all told no longer fits in a corporate radio landscape. But thankfully it does.
You're right. It CAN be done. Stations are sold every day, and yet mom&pops let them go to religious operators rather than buy them themselves. Fans of music could easily band together, pool their money, and own stations that are dedicated to the best music, and serving the fans rather than stockholders. they could be run non-commercially. I've seen it done. It can happen. All it takes are a few dedicated people.
"Most of the corportations" I admire are ones like Saga and Townsquare and Summit, not the ones that overextended like Cumulus, Clear Channel and the Dickie's operation.
So they are like the mom and pop hardware store on main street wondering how the new Home Depot will kill them. As more and more listen to podcasts and online services, those little independent stations will have a very limited future unless they develop a very robust web service for local merchants, similar to what Townsquare does.
May they enjoy it while it lasts.
Again, the issue is that this is a relatively low billing station (the average Pizza Hut has double the gross revenue each year) that has no apparent new media presence beyond a little website.
No, it is what radio "was" in America. Those stations are going to be as dead as blacksmith shops unless they rapidly figure out how to be dominant local service providers via new media.
The problem is that independent listener supported stations that are based on a narrow piece of the musical spectrum have a hard time as initial volunteers drop off and are hard to replace. This has been the issue with the truly independent LPFMs in many locations, causing them to end up off the air or running the classic "iPad on shuffle" much of the day.
I don't know the answer, but I wonder how many independent listener supported full signal (an A, B or C class) FMs have converted to listener support in the last decade that are not affiliated with NPR or a religious group´.
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