Entercom's alternative experiment not a success?

[DavidEduardo]

Well, if I were handling Royal Blood or Foo Fighters, or an number of the other artists who are being screwed over (or have been screwed over), I would be exploring recourse because a blackballing is definitely going on.

What you describe as "blackballing" is not, generally, illegal unless there is a hidden agenda of some sort.

An artist that did not show for an interview or appearance can be taken off the playlist, for example. In fact, the simple condition of the PD not believing in a song or an act is a valid reason not to play them. There is no immutable standard that requires unconditional airplay.

And often the "blackballing" is quite simply the result of a station music test that showed that the artist had too many negative scores to be playable, even if some listeners loved them or the individual songs.

What you perceive as "blackballing" is most likely just good, well researched and well reasoned programming.

 

[TheBigA]

You have to figure out what your market wants to hear. I am beginning to think that the audience wants more guitars on the format, but what that's going to sound like is beyond my ability to guess.

All that sounds very reasonable to me. Just that there's a point where alt starts sounding like active rock or even country as things evolve. It's kind of a problem when the format keeps changing and there isn't an actual leadership core that one can count on for direction. These radio groups are huge aircraft carriers, not little speedboats. It takes time to shift them around.

 

[macattack]

What you describe as "blackballing" is not, generally, illegal unless there is a hidden agenda of some sort.

An artist that did not show for an interview or appearance can be taken off the playlist, for example. In fact, the simple condition of the PD not believing in a song or an act is a valid reason not to play them. There is no immutable standard that requires unconditional airplay.

And often the "blackballing" is quite simply the result of a station music test that showed that the artist had too many negative scores to be playable, even if some listeners loved them or the individual songs.

What you perceive as "blackballing" is most likely just good, well researched and well reasoned programming.

You say this like "Mike The Show Killer" Kaplan is capable of good, well-researched, and well-reasoned programming, but hey, to each his own.

All that sounds very reasonable to me. Just that there's a point where alt starts sounding like active rock or even country as things evolve. It's kind of a problem when the format keeps changing and there isn't an actual leadership core that one can count on for direction. These radio groups are huge aircraft carriers, not little speedboats. It takes time to shift them around.

I agree with you here. Usually it takes 2-3 years at the start of each decade for the defining sound of Alternative for that decade to show itself. Alternative in 1994 looked miles away from 1991, and 2004 from 2001. We will, most likely, only be seeing the beginnings of what the format is going to turn into next year.

 

[DavidEduardo]

If those are within the margin of error, that suggests these are too:

KRBZ-FM

Alternative

Entercom

2.1

2.7

3.1

2.5

That is a set of ups and downs that is otherwise not explainable. Add in that Nielsen has had extreme panel issues during the pandemic, so some of the issue is sample and some is normal low-tier wobble.

 

[TheBigA]

I agree with you here. Usually it takes 2-3 years at the start of each decade for the defining sound of Alternative for that decade to show itself. Alternative in 1994 looked miles away from 1991, and 2004 from 2001. We will, most likely, only be seeing the beginnings of what the format is going to turn into next year.

I view music differently. It's not defined by decade, but by circumstance. I believe the virus and the resulting lockdown will have a huge effect on the art we see and hear in the next few years. I hope the alternative format takes the lead in this, but because its impact is smaller, it's likely to be more noticeable in other genres.

The artists I have been speaking with are just waiting for the moment when they can stage massive concerts again. Once that gets cleared, you will see an eruption that hasn't been seen in 50 years.

 

[DavidEduardo]

You say this like "Mike The Show Killer" Kaplan is capable of good, well-researched, and well-reasoned programming, but hey, to each his own.¿

Mike was mostly responsible for Alt in LA destroying the music dayparts of KROQ. He knows what he is doing, even if you don't like it. In fact, I see an "agenda" here, given your comments on Kaplan.

Mike's heritage in LA is that KROQ collapsed when the morning show fragmented and then ended. Alt is now the leader in its genre, so he must know something to have pretty much destroyed an enormous heritage radio station.

 

[macattack]

I view music differently. It's not defined by decade, but by circumstance. I believe the virus and the resulting lockdown will have a huge effect on the art we see and hear in the next few years. I hope the alternative format takes the lead in this, but because its impact is smaller, it's likely to be more noticeable in other genres.

The artists I have been speaking with are just waiting for the moment when they can stage massive concerts again. Once that gets cleared, you will see an eruption that hasn't been seen in 50 years.

I don't doubt it. The return of the concert scene and the release of all of the withheld albums is going to be enormous. What happens in its wake is almost impossible to predict. Whoever comes closest is going to look like Nostradamus.

Mike was mostly responsible for Alt in LA destroying the music dayparts of KROQ. He knows what he is doing, even if you don't like it. In fact, I see an "agenda" here, given your comments on Kaplan.

Mike's heritage in LA is that KROQ collapsed when the morning show fragmented and then ended. Alt is now the leader in its genre, so he must know something to have pretty much destroyed an enormous heritage radio station.

That "Mike The Show Killer" line was me being snarky more than anything else, based on many radio people's impressions of him. Even the Woody show which Mike formerly managed despised him greatly, as demonstrated here. You can only become so blatant before it's impossible not to see.

 

[TheBigA]

I don't doubt it. The return of the concert scene and the release of all of the withheld albums is going to be enormous. What happens in its wake is almost impossible to predict. Whoever comes closest is going to look like Nostradamus.

The folks at Live Nation and Goldenvoice are spending a lot of time and money to be the first ones out of the gate.

 

[TheBigA]

What you perceive as "blackballing" is most likely just good, well researched and well reasoned programming.

Keep in mind that record labels also do music research. If the labels are doing their job, their promo reps are conveying their data to the radio stations, and making their case for their artists. That's where the rubber meets the road.

 

[kp2780]

As I've often said, radio isn't in the music distribution business. That's best done by streaming services where you can build your own playlist, and subscribe to the particular groups of discovery playlists they create that suit your taste. What these stations are trying to do is create a combination of new releases and popular gold that will attract a consensus audience. It's possible that this genre simply doesn't have a group of consensus songs or artists that can work for a mass appeal radio station.

The question posed by the OP in this thread has to do with the replacement of local talent with regional or national hosts, and I'm not seeing consistent information on that subject. Perhaps what you're saying is the music isn't good enough to replace the loss of local talent. And the new replacements haven't created enough of a reason for people to tune in.

Yes, I've veered off topic, but I agree that the music not being good enough is the primary problem with these stations. A "real" Alternative format might very well not be viable in commercial radio in many markets.

I've noticed that the entire Entercom Alternative network is effectively syndicated from 7p-6a every day. Same DJs, same music, all synced to WNYL's playlist. What you're saying is true for the other hours (and each station does seem to have one locally-based DJ of some sort), but there is a substantial amount of time where everything is basically WNYL.

I think Entercom's push towards a pop base for the format is accelerating the fragmentation you're talking about. WNYL in New York and KPNT in St. Louis are barely sharing more than a current or two between them. Hell, WNYL is barely sharing more than a few songs with KROX in Austin or KFRR in Fresno. They might as well be in their own world at this point. But Entercom's stations make up almost a third of the Billboard Alternative panel so WNYL's choices in particular (thanks to the 7p-6a syndication) tends to have an enormous amount of weight in what's charting right now, and this caused a massive purge of songs from the chart in October due to all of the Entercoms having to play what WNYL is.

Entercom is also what is single-handedly blocking Royal Blood and Foo Fighters from the top 5 on the Alt chart as well. This consolidation and erecting brick walls to potential hit songs are going to affect careers. Foo Fighters have had plenty of Alt hits and remain well-known, they'll be fine even if Entercom leads a charge to boot them from the format, but a rising artist like Royal Blood is going to suffer potentially career-altering consequences. It's worrisome.

I didn’t know that Entercom was not getting behind the new Royal Blood and Foo Fighters records. That’s totally bizarre since those songs are basically what I would consider consensus songs for the format, somewhere between Active and Alternative, plus with Foo Fighters, you’ve got a well known band also.

 

[TheBigA]

I didn’t know that Entercom was not getting behind the new Royal Blood and Foo Fighters records.

BTW I looked through some playlists and saw several Entercom stations playing Royal Blood: KVIL, KNRK, and KRBZ.

 

[tall_guy1]

There's an asterisk behind the daytimes being local. They're programmed by regional execs (the local pds lost their power) and all share some things in common. For example, the radio.com "pick of the week" is on every station, and on themed weekends (like the Christmas weekends and the pinkin park weekend a few weeks ago) the exact same songs were interspersed between their normal playlists, meaning knrk in portland during their linkin park weekend played the shins and a few songs later linkin park.

 

[TheBigA]

There's an asterisk behind the daytimes being local.

Most stations still have local music directors who still take music calls from record labels every week, and have input into the music those stations are making. Nothing wrong with weekend feature programming. It's been done for 50 years.

 

[tall_guy1]

Most stations still have local music directors who still take music calls from record labels every week, and have input into the music those stations are making. Nothing wrong with weekend feature programming. It's been done for 50 years.

I was referring to the current entercom alternative stations. For example, lazlo in kc no longer programs krbz and there are other exanples.

 

[TheBigA]

I was referring to the current entercom alternative stations. For example, lazlo in kc no longer programs krbz and there are other exanples.

He is still listed as PD at Mediabase, and Jeriney Fulcher is listed as Music Director. Obviously they report to regionals, but that's nothing new. Even at stations where the regional is also the PD, there are local music directors who take calls from record labels and have input into the music being played.

 

[Andy Travis]

Early in the KRBZ rebrand, Lazlo made the comment on air to the effect that the show was his only job now and the job he used to do is done by someone else - something like "I'm no longer the boss, the boss calls me.." and Jeriney is producing the Lazlo show.

 

[gamefreak]

To be fair, the limited success of the new Foo Fighters single goes beyond Entercom, and for that matter is an issue that the format has had since 2011. Let's face it, the last time the Foo Fighters had a 1# on the Alt Chart was in 2014. Yes, the Foos had songs chart on the format since then, but never with enough traction to build quorum with a majority of stations that report to Billboard. I'll will also mention the last single by the Foo Fighter's to get any substantial airplay currently as a gold title was "Times Like These", which was released back in 2002. The Entercom alt station in Orlando, FM 101.9, actually played "The Pretender" very early one morning. However, this was in 2018, before Entercom started leaning more in the pop direction. Overall, most Alt stations really only play "Learn to Fly" and songs off of Color and Shape. Which means the band's 1995 debut, as well as anything since, don't even get airplay as gold titles.

September 2011 was the month that Alternative in general starting changing The month, the local Alternative station where I lived at the time, 97x out of Tampa, debuted a new artist by the name of Fun!. By the Spring of next year, the chart was full of folk and pop oriented artists: Monsters of Men, Foster the People, Fun, ect. The harder rock music born out of the early-90's rock scene, which was more or less an extension of the late 70's punk scene, was done for on the format. Which generally meant, a harder song would still get airplay when new, maybe even hit the top 5. However, once the songs was over a month old, would disappear to make room for another overplayed Panic at the Disco song.

 

[tall_guy1]

I wonder if the cbs merger had anything to do with this. I noticed krbz in kc had a 7.2 share in December 2016, a year before the cbs merger. By 2018, their ratings had fallen to a 2.8 and the playlist tightened slightly. I wonder if cbs micromanages their stations a lot more than entercom alone and that is why these stations are falling. Maybe a more "freeform" approach to these stations, like was done at the buzz years ago, is the way to go.

 

[TheBigA]

I wonder if cbs micromanages their stations a lot more than entercom alone and that is why these stations are falling.

Not sure what you're saying. Former KRBZ PD Mike Kaplan, who was there in 2008, is the head of Alternative Programming for all of Entercom now. So what you're hearing on the station now is being orchestrated by the man who was there over ten years ago.

A lot of the top CBS people left after the merger.

 

[Andy Travis]

But the heyday of the Buzz seems to be under Lazlo, not Kaplan as best I can tell. I'm guessing tall guy's point is post merger, perhaps there was pressure to tighten things in a way Kansas City didn't respond to positively.