WROR, Unchallengeable?

[Retro]

Your own listeners?

That is why stations test the songs they play, songs they might play and even some songs competitors or streamers play.

A bad song is one that is very disliked by a significant percentage of a station's heaviest and most loyal listeners. That is why stations test songs with a statistically meaningful group of either what we call "P1 Listeners" who are those who listen to us more than other stations or a group of people who hear and score highly a "pod" of our format's better performing songs. Those people then score 500 to 600 songs in a full test and the songs that get highly positive scores are played.

How do you know? A station like that in a huge market with significant revenue is going to test its music regularly while at the same time trying out songs they are not playing that might now fit. So if they are playing a song, it tested well.

WROR is more or less pop rock classic hits. While they do play mainstays such as Prince, do they play Lionel Ritchie also? No, well accept for maybe All Night Long if even at all.

I am still of the unpopular opinion on the songs are tested, is a poor method. Thus only playing "safe" songs instead.

 

[DavidEduardo]

WROR is more or less pop rock classic hits. While they do play mainstays such as Prince, do they play Lionel Ritchie also? No, well accept for maybe All Night Long if even at all.

I am still of the unpopular opinion on the songs are tested, is a poor method. Thus only playing "safe" songs instead.

So they should just play any old song, irrespective of whether their listeners are shown to like them?

The term "safe" you use is wrong. If a song is "safe" to play, it means that by playing it you will not lose listeners each time it airs. Who would want to play songs that make their listeners tune outS?

Music testing is simply a quantified way to find out what station listeners like and dislike and then shows how often to play each good song... the higher it tests, the more often it should be played.

 

[Retro]

So they should just play any old song, irrespective of whether their listeners are shown to like them?

The term "safe" you use is wrong. If a song is "safe" to play, it means that by playing it you will not lose listeners each time it airs. Who would want to play songs that make their listeners tune outS?

Music testing is simply a quantified way to find out what station listeners like and dislike and then shows how often to play each good song... the higher it tests, the more often it should be played.

Yes, 'ROR is sticking with what works well!

Testing a somg by only playing the beginning of the first 5 seconds is not a good indicator of whether someone will like a song or not.

We are always going to disagree, but the owners of this site fully support dissenting opinions such as my own.

 

[TheBigA]

We are always going to disagree, but the owners of this site fully support dissenting opinions such as my own.

It's easy to dissent or take risks when you don't have personal money in the game. Tell someone else how to risk their money.

You program for yourself. Radio programs for millions.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Testing a somg by only playing the beginning of the first 5 seconds is not a good indicator of whether someone will like a song or not.

Radio music tests do not play the "first five seconds". We use the "hook" of the song, the most identifiable part. When we did tests in meeting rooms, we'd do about 8" of each song. By the 6th second, everyone had scored the song already. Now, with online tests, the participant can play as much of a song as they need to give their opinion. Few take more than 5 seconds to score, and none ever to to the full 15 to 20 seconds we may give them.

In a traditional music test, if you make the hooks too long, the participants get bored and stop scoring accurately.

Oh, and you say "whether someone will like a song or not". "Will" is future tense. We don't test new songs until they have been on the air for several weeks. And in library tests, we don't test them for even longer.

We are always going to disagree, but the owners of this site fully support dissenting opinions such as my own.

I know a same-format station that competed with one I programmed. They did their own version or out test (we did private testing but also did the test on-air with a form to fill published in a major newspaper).

They did much longer hooks and many more songs. They came on with a much larger playlist. We continued with around a 20 share in a 200 station market, and they never got over a 1 share and changed format within a year.

 

[CTListener]

and yesterday, I heard Rock Solid blasting out of someone's car.

But if you polled everyone in that car, you might find that only the driver likes it.

 

[Discological]

WROR sounds like a tighter version of WZLX. The highest rated FM stations have always been the most boring. I have had Sirius XM for 10 years. The only local stations I listen to are Easy 99.1 and 1030 WBZ, and I am 44.🙂

 

[ScottBurns]

WROR sounds like a tighter version of WZLX. The highest rated FM stations have always been the most boring. I have had Sirius XM for 10 years. The only local stations I listen to are Easy 99.1 and 1030 WBZ, and I am 44.🙂

I can’t explain why, but WZLX doesn’t sound as boring as WROR. Maybe it’s because WZLX isn’t as repetitive and has a slightly larger playlist.

 

[Discological]

I can’t explain why, but WZLX doesn’t sound as boring as WROR. Maybe it’s because WZLX isn’t as repetitive and has a slightly larger playlist.

ZLX is slightly better than ROR but the best all around classic (and some modern) rock station in this area is 94.1 WHJY.

 

[Retro]

ZLX is slightly better than ROR but the best all around classic (and some modern) rock station in this area is 94.1 WHJY.

I heard that iHeartRadio didn't mess with it for the most part, and let it be what it always has been.

 

[ScottBurns]

I heard that iHeartRadio didn't mess with it for the most part, and let it be what it always has been.

Agreed. ‘HJY is still a personality-driven AOR (that leans Classic Rock), without any Premium Choice (but a lot of local voice-tracking). My only problem with ‘HJY is that it has considerably tightened a once-gigantic playlist. But it’s not nearly as repetitive or boring as, say, WROR.

 

[TheBigA]

Format radio is built around repetition. It always has been. If you listen to Kiss, they play currents 100 times a week. On the other hand, WROR plays their 10 most-played songs 13 times a week. WZLX plays their most-played songs 9 times a week. Not much difference. Both stations reorganize their playlist every week. WZLX moved Billy Joel's Big Shot from #289 last week to #3, going from one play a week to 9. At WROR, they moved up Bruce Springsteen's Born In The USA for 4th of July. So both stations change their playlist every week.

But you have to understand that any radio station is going to operate this way. When you play music at home, you might only play a song once. Radio stations have 24 hours to fill. So they're going to have to repeat the cycle in order to fill the time.

 

[CassChopper96]

I went on to look at all stations billing over $12,000,000 and came up with 88 stations:

2 are AAA
5 are AC
1 is adult hits
2 are alternative
6 are CHR
1 is Rhythmic CHR
5 are classic hits
4 are classic rock
2 are country
6 are hot AC
6 are hiphop/r&b
1 is lite AC
2 are Regional Mexican
1 is modern rock
9 are news
11 are news talk or news talk sports
1 are rhythmic CHR
1 is rock
1 is soft rock
2 are Spanish adult hits
1 is Spanish AC
2 are tropical
3 are sports
4 are urban AC
3 are urban.

KSTP-FM in Minneapolis has to be one of the biggest billing Hot AC’s in the country. I’m surprised there are more hip hop stations on the list than AC stations

 

[ScottBurns]

Format radio is built around repetition. It always has been. If you listen to Kiss, they play currents 100 times a week. On the other hand, WROR plays their 10 most-played songs 13 times a week. WZLX plays their most-played songs 9 times a week. Not much difference. Both stations reorganize their playlist every week. WZLX moved Billy Joel's Big Shot from #289 last week to #3, going from one play a week to 9. At WROR, they moved up Bruce Springsteen's Born In The USA for 4th of July. So both stations change their playlist every week.

But you have to understand that any radio station is going to operate this way. When you play music at home, you might only play a song once. Radio stations have 24 hours to fill. So they're going to have to repeat the cycle in order to fill the time.

We all understand this. Many of us here don't like it. And we don't have to like it. As such, I choose to not listen to WROR and other stations with extreme repetition and tight playlists.

 

[TheBigA]

We all understand this. Many of us here don't like it. And we don't have to like it. As such, I choose to not listen to WROR and other stations with extreme repetition and tight playlists.

Keep in mind the vast majority of the songs on WROR get played once or twice a week. That's not "extreme repetition," especially compared to the other stations in the market.

 

[ScottBurns]

Keep in mind the vast majority of the songs on WROR get played once or twice a week. That's not "extreme repetition," especially compared to the other stations in the market.

I disagree. To quote your previous reply: “WROR plays their 10 most-played songs 13 times a week.” The same 10 songs get played 13 times per week. Given my listening habits - yes, I’m looking at this subjectively - I’m likely to hear the same songs multiple times per week. That’s extreme repetition to me. I find it to be insufferably boring. That’s why I won’t listen to WROR when I’m in Boston.

 

[TheBigA]

I disagree. To quote your previous reply: “WROR plays their 10 most-played songs 13 times a week.” The same 10 songs get played 13 times per week.

That's twice a day. Is your radio on 24 hours a day? Then after a week, the top 10 is cycled out and a new group of songs is cycled in. As I said, they're playing Born In The USA multiple times for 4th of July. What's wrong with that?

Compared to WCBS, they play their top songs 19 times a week, and KRTH plays them 30 times a week. The Blend on Sirius plays their Top 10 18 times a week. So no, WROR doesn't have "extreme repetition." You just don't like format radio.

 

[DavidEduardo]

I disagree. To quote your previous reply: “WROR plays their 10 most-played songs 13 times a week.” The same 10 songs get played 13 times per week. Given my listening habits - yes, I’m looking at this subjectively - I’m likely to hear the same songs multiple times per week. That’s extreme repetition to me. I find it to be insufferably boring. That’s why I won’t listen to WROR when I’m in Boston.

But...

For the most part the whole field of "popular music" is based on playing just a few songs over and over.

In the 50's, when network radio with drama, comedy and "soap operas" was dying, a young man in Omaha noticed that the waitresses at his favorite diner and coffee shop would play the same songs over and over on the juke box with their tip money. Over time, some songs would get less play and new ones would replace them.

Todd Storz thought that playing the current favorites over and over all day long might be a good thing to do on his little daytime 500 watt radio station. Top 40 was born, and KOWH at times had half of all the audience in Omaha.

They played the best new songs, they played the biggest songs the most often, and as they faded they were no longer played.

What that proved, 70 years ago, is that there is a finite number of songs "people" all want to hear. And they want to the biggest songs the most often... in fact, per the simplest research, "every time I turn on the radio".

Radio is a one-to-many anachronism in a one-for-one "on demand" world. We can only play those songs that "everybody" within our music style or type like. The moment that we expand the playlist with songs that some people like less, the appeal of our overall effort declines.

And in all my time in radio, I've never been at a station that was beaten by one that played more different songs than I did. And the one time that I did not win in rating was when I mistakenly thought that "variety" was synonymous with "more songs".

 

[ScottBurns]

That's twice a day. Is your radio on 24 hours a day? Then after a week, the top 10 is cycled out and a new group of songs is cycled in. As I said, they're playing Born In The USA multiple times for 4th of July. What's wrong with that?

Compared to WCBS, they play their top songs 19 times a week, and KRTH plays them 30 times a week. The Blend on Sirius plays their Top 10 18 times a week. So no, WROR doesn't have "extreme repetition." You just don't like format radio.

Respectfully, sir, don’t tell me what I like and don’t like. I make that call. It’s like I can’t state my opinion about repetition and tight playlists without getting an argument from you.

Not that I have to defend myself, but I like format radio. I just don’t like repetition and extremely tight playlists. And yes, there are days that I’m listening to radio 6-8 hours a day. There are days that I listen less. And I don’t want to hear the same songs I heard the day before, and that’s what happens with WROR,

 

[ScottBurns]

But...

For the most part the whole field of "popular music" is based on playing just a few songs over and over.

In the 50's, when network radio with drama, comedy and "soap operas" was dying, a young man in Omaha noticed that the waitresses at his favorite diner and coffee shop would play the same songs over and over on the juke box with their tip money. Over time, some songs would get less play and new ones would replace them.

Todd Storz thought that playing the current favorites over and over all day long might be a good thing to do on his little daytime 500 watt radio station. Top 40 was born, and KOWH at times had half of all the audience in Omaha.

They played the best new songs, they played the biggest songs the most often, and as they faded they were no longer played.

What that proved, 70 years ago, is that there is a finite number of songs "people" all want to hear. And they want to the biggest songs the most often... in fact, per the simplest research, "every time I turn on the radio".

Radio is a one-to-many anachronism in a one-for-one "on demand" world. We can only play those songs that "everybody" within our music style or type like. The moment that we expand the playlist with songs that some people like less, the appeal of our overall effort declines.

And in all my time in radio, I've never been at a station that was beaten by one that played more different songs than I did. And the one time that I did not win in rating was when I mistakenly thought that "variety" was synonymous with "more songs".

We’re not arguing the merits of repetitive and tight playlists. I’m just stating that I find them to be a bore, and many on this board agree.