One Spot An Hour

[b-turner]

Kramer mentioned in a post on The Freak in Dallas/Fort Worth about having a syndicated show on 3 stations with only one spot an hour. My memory kicked in.

In Dallas/Fort Worth an experiment was tried on Lone Star 92.5 with a format that was Texas-centric. For those outside Texas, it's tough to describe. Mix some classic rock, southern rock especially, a heavy dosage of Texas artists and even a couple of Outlaw Country (especially Willie Nelson and Waylon Jennings). You'd hear the Drive by Truckers next to 38 Special. Zero news, weather and traffic. Just bulletins like a Tornado Warning.

There was only one commercial an hour and the product was the exclusive advertiser. For example, Coors. It was the only beer advertised and the official Lone Star 92.5 beer.

Commercials were live and ad-libbed by the jock (all seasoned pros). Here's an example: not exact wording

"Lone Star 92 point 5. I know you're about to head out the door, calling it a day, but you need to know Dallas and Tarrant Counties are under a Tornado Warning. There is a tornado on the ground right now and headed our way. You sure don't want to be stuck on the freeway with a tornado headed toward you. I have a suggestion. You know that little bar by work you were thinking about trying. Drop by there now and wait this storm out. And when you order, order a Coors in the can. You know you have found a great little bar if the mountains on the Coors can are blue because that means your Coors Beer is at the perfect temperature to drink. Again we have a tornado on the ground headed our way right during rush hour. Tarrant and Dallas Counties are under a Tornado Warning until 5:45. Best to wait this one out at work or that corner bar with a Coors Beer. A little Stevie Ray Vaughn on Lone Star 92 point 5."

The format tanked and it was not something it seemed ad agencies could grasp but perhaps now they would have the confidence to buy in on that 'official station brand' idea. If a station chooses to only accept one versus all who will advertise is the question.

 

[TheBigA]

Kramer mentioned in a post on The Freak in Dallas/Fort Worth about having a syndicated show on 3 stations with only one spot an hour.

Commercials were live and ad-libbed by the jock (all seasoned pros).

I once did a classical music show that did the same thing. The issue was that orchestral pieces can run over 20 minutes. The advertiser paid a premium price, and they got host reads and brand association. They could take their sponsorship of the local symphony and include that in other places.

This is a very unique situation, and the advertiser was looking for that kind of prestige one gets with institutional advertising. iHeart is doing the same thing with their Black Information Network. There are some spots in the format, but it's brand association with the format. Not sure that can apply to everything. Most advertisers I've worked with want impressions based on frequency of spots, and they don't want to pay more for fewer impressions.

This issue with spots is not new. 12-14 spots an hour have been common for over 30 years. You can come up with exceptions, but I have program logs to prove it. And as I said in the other thread, the exact same thing is done in TV. You have two or three long breaks. That's what works best for the ratings, the advertisers, and the owners. If there was a way to do it another way, it would be done. Advertisers don't want to pay more for less, and they're the ones who are paying.

 

[Kelly A]

Sounds like what a lot of public stations do: One or two underwriters sponsor a single hour or entire show. They get mentioned at the beginning and end.

 

[TheBigA]

Sounds like what a lot of public stations do: One or two underwriters sponsor a single hour or entire show. They get mentioned at the beginning and end.

As was the case with my example, they're buying institutional funding, which is different from advertising. Advertising is meant to get the listener to take action, and buy something, A funding announcement is brand association. So repetition is less important.

The programming is also very different because non-commercial radio isn't built around meeting certain sales demos, such as age of the listeners. So you're more likely to hear programming aimed at older listeners.

So the option is there. If listeners don't like 12-14 minutes of commercials, switch to non-commercial radio.

 

[michael hagerty]

This was the model for network radio---"Lucky Strike brings you...(name of show)".

It survived into the 70s in some local radio. The House of Sight & Sound, a TV/Stereo/record store in the San Fernando Valley, sponsored 15 minutes of Dick Whittinghill's show on KMPC until 1979, and when I was in Ukiah (1976-77) Ukiah Ford sponsored the 7:30-8:00 a.m. half hour each weekday.

 

[TheBigA]

This was the model for network radio---"Lucky Strike brings you...(name of show)".

You still have it today with the Grand Ole Opry. Humana is the topline sponsor for the Opry. But they still have sponsors for each hour. So if you pay money to see the Opry, they stop the show every ten minutes or so to run commercials that air on WSM and those breaks also get used for Circle TV. Imagine paying $60-80 to see a concert, and then have to sit through commercial breaks while the performer is standing on stage waiting.

Once again, it was brand association, and the network shows usually featured a star. Once the big network radio stars left, and you just had a local guy spinning records, the value of that brand association dropped. Advertisers weren't as willing to pay top dollar for a DJ show. So the price per advertiser dropped, and the number of advertisers increased to meet the budget. The same issue exists today. A single advertiser might be more willing to pay more if he gets something in return. But the options there are limited.

 

[vchimpanzee]

63 Big WAYS outside Charlotte NC (50s/60s) has a sponsor for each hour but they usually have several commercial breaks with other advertisers. The owner has an apparently successful rock-leaning classic hits FM (not shown in the official ratings) and can afford to have an AM station that doesn't make a lot of money.

 

[DaveBayArea]

There's also this:

He Cut Ads To 5:00 Per Hour - What Happened Next? - Radio Ink

As radio chases the shorter stopset, Radio Ink talked with One Putt Broadcasting's John Ostlund about his stations' bold approach.

radioink.com

I like the part about the $100 bill.

Dave B.

 

[TheBigA]

There's also this:

I like the part about the $100 bill.

One Putt is one of the radio companies that recently settled a music royalties lawsuit with GMR

Global Music Rights Settles Months-Old Radio Group Lawsuits

Global Music Rights (GMR) has officially settled a pair of lawsuits that it levied against two radio groups in October of 2022.

www.digitalmusicnews.com

 

[Kelly A]

Among John Ostlund's comments, this one stood out to me: "Rather than sell radio as a commodity, we have a rate card. We don’t vary from it. We don’t give away spots. We don’t do bonus weight. We don’t let agencies tell us how we’re going to sell our products and our services. That’s my mindset."
John seems to be missing a key fact here; he's talking about his customers. 'It's like saying; I don't give a sh*t what you think Mr. or Ms. Customer, you'll do it our way and you'll pay what we tell you to pay.'
This is in a world where "advertising reach" is the word. Ridiculous arrogance that sends the wrong message.
He then goes on to say that gone are the days when they comp (give away) spots, then goes on to ridicule his competition, when in a prior sentence, he said his station group is guilty of all the same things.
Well here's a newsflash for you 'Mr. No Debt'; just as it was back in the early days of station websites, once stations started giving away or comping ad space and inventory that includes nights, weekends, holidays, and make-goods, there's no turning back. Advertisers have so many more forms of media all vying for their business, that sort of arrogance will likely get your little group blackballed.

 

[michael hagerty]

Among John Ostlund's comments, this one stood out to me: "Rather than sell radio as a commodity, we have a rate card. We don’t vary from it. We don’t give away spots. We don’t do bonus weight. We don’t let agencies tell us how we’re going to sell our products and our services. That’s my mindset."
John seems to be missing a key fact here; he's talking about his customers. 'It's like saying; I don't give a sh*t what you think Mr. or Ms. Customer, you'll do it our way and you'll pay what we tell you to pay.'
This is in a world where "advertising reach" is the word. Ridiculous arrogance that sends the wrong message.
He then goes on to say that gone are the days when they comp (give away) spots, then goes on to ridicule his competition, when in a prior sentence, he said his station group is guilty of all the same things.
Well here's a newsflash for you 'Mr. No Debt'; just as it was back in the early days of station websites, once stations started giving away or comping ad space and inventory that includes nights, weekends, holidays, and make-goods, there's no turning back. Advertisers have so many more forms of media all vying for their business, that sort of arrogance will likely get your little group blackballed.

It's been four months since that published. Maybe it's working for Ostlund.

Basically, he's going back to an earlier philosophy: Advertisers want to reach audience. What you're selling is access to the audience. Focus on attracting the audience and the advertisers will follow.

And, reading between the lines of what he actually says in the interview, I don't get "I don't give a sh*t" from that as his message to the advertiser---I get "here's how I can get more attention and better retention for your message."

Yeah, it will probably translate better for local direct than for agencies, but if you're a small owner in a market like Fresno, that's probably where your shot is.

 

[Kelly A]

Basically, he's going back to an earlier philosophy: Advertisers want to reach audience. What you're selling is access to the audience. Focus on attracting the audience and the advertisers will follow.

But that's going under the assumption running ads on your radio station(s) is reaching the audience advertisers want to reach. As has been said many times around here; there's a lot of competition out there that wasn't around even ten years ago. That includes where the younger audience goes.

And, reading between the lines of what he actually says in the interview, I don't get "I don't give a sh*t" from that as his message to the advertiser---I get "here's how I can get more attention and better retention for your message."

Seems more like a bloviating big shot being interviewed. As BigA pointed out; this is the same guy who felt he was above paying for music royalties. How did that work for him?

Yeah, it will probably translate better for local direct than for agencies, but if you're a small owner in a market like Fresno, that's probably where your shot is.

The problem is when he starts treating agencies differently than locals. The locals will notice, and the competition will be sure to point it out as well.

 

[TheBigA]

Among John Ostlund's comments, this one stood out to me:

Here's what stood out to me:

So, I did the math – five minutes an hour, 18 hours a day, times five stations, times 365. When I sell out at five minutes, I’ll have doubled my revenues.

That's what he's basing this on. If ad time at 8PM was as valuable as ad time at 8AM, he might be right. But it isn't. There are many hours for which he has no demand at all. That's why others add more spots in other dayparts. The spots they sell at 8AM make up for the spots they can't sell at 8PM.

I don't know how many sales people he has, and how much time they spend with clients to get them to pay higher rates. But I know what h says isn't effective when dealing with national advertisers. They strictly look at ratings and pay based on that. So he can hold the line locally, but how effective is that in a competitive market?

 

[michael hagerty]

Here's what stood out to me:



That's what he's basing this on. If ad time at 8PM was as valuable as ad time at 8AM, he might be right. But it isn't. There are many hours for which he has no demand at all. That's why others add more spots in other dayparts. The spots they sell at 8AM make up for the spots they can't sell at 8PM.

Excellent point. He's probably really looking at only 10 or 12 hours a day, five days a week (so, 260 days). That's very different math.

I don't know how many sales people he has, and how much time they spend with clients to get them to pay higher rates. But I know what h says isn't effective when dealing with national advertisers. They strictly look at ratings and pay based on that. So he can hold the line locally, but how effective is that in a competitive market?

He says he's debt-free. Maybe he's in a position to make it work from local direct.

As with everything, we'll see.

 

[Kelly A]

That's what he's basing this on. If ad time at 8PM was as valuable as ad time at 8AM, he might be right. But it isn't.

You'd think he would already know that.
I'm not familiar with his station's standing in the market, but I suppose (in theory) he had the market killer morning show, WAY above and beyond everyone else's AM show(s), then he could do what he claims, asking a premium to buy on that show. Everything else through all the other dayparts would be icing. My bet is none of that is the case here.

There are many hours for which he has no demand at all. That's why others add more spots in other dayparts. The spots they sell at 8AM make up for the spots they can't sell at 8PM.

They strictly look at ratings and pay based on that. So he can hold the line locally, but how effective is that in a competitive market?

Fresno-Visalia used to be a very saturated and competitive market that has seen reduced, but moderate population growth (3.43%) from 2022-2023. 2021-2022 was 4.05% and 2020-2021 was 5.25%.

 

[radiofan2023]

Do you think he’s using the same rate card for all his stations?

 

[michael hagerty]

Do you think he’s using the same rate card for all his stations?

It would be an unusual approach, but One Putt doesn't subscribe to Nielsen Audio ratings, so there's no metric by which to say which station is worth more.

Here's the advertising page for One Putt's stations. It includes audio samples of the production they do for local clients and bios of their sales guys.

Advertising

Advertising Is About One Thing: RESULTS! Before you invest in advertising, ask yourself: “Would I respond to my advertising?” If the answer is no, you came to the right, locally owned radio group. One Putt Broadcasting is

www.oneputtbroadcasting.com

Again, we'll see if this works over the long haul, but Fresno has some built-in advantages. It's not a major or even large market where every business of any size with any interest in advertising is with an agency. But it's large enough to have a fair number of privately-owned local or regional businesses of some scale with money for marketing.

The cluster is a Classic Rock, a Classic Hits, a "New Rock", a Country and and Oldies AM. So a chunk of the target audience are still radio users.

 

[Kelly A]

Again, we'll see if this works over the long haul, but Fresno has some built-in advantages. It's not a major or even large market where every business of any size with any interest in advertising is with an agency. But it's large enough to have a fair number of privately-owned local or regional businesses of some scale with money for marketing.

Fresno-Visalia is DMA 54, which is well within being considered a medium to large market. And with any market under 100, there are tons of big box stores, grocery, fuel, auto, and agriculture that all fall under national. Trying to rely on local restaurants, health clubs, auto repair, and furniture to stay afloat without relying on the potential for national would be a huge hill to climb.

 

[michael hagerty]

Fresno-Visalia is DMA 54, which is well within being considered a medium to large market.

Nielsen Audio market #66. As I said, not major or large. Large-ish medium?

And with any market under 100, there are tons of big box stores, grocery, fuel, auto, and agriculture that all fall under national. Trying to rely on local restaurants, health clubs, auto repair, and furniture to stay afloat without relying on the potential for national would be a huge hill to climb.

Unless he really can make it on five minutes an hour and get those local directs to pay more than the agencies are willing to. And again, neither of us knows if he can or not. We'll find out.

 

[Kelly A]

Unless he really can make it on five minutes an hour and get those local directs to pay more than the agencies are willing to. And again, neither of us knows if he can or not. We'll find out.

Somehow I doubt we ever will. How often after interviews like this are the results of their pronouncements made public by the station or group? If poor results, the answer is usually never.