Hot 96.9; Jam'n 94.5; 97.7 The Beat

[UrbanTeenager]

The goal isn't to get ratings. Repeat after me: The goal ISN'T to get ratings.

Thought I made that understanding clear when I said this:

"pull a 2.5 in Boston-especially after seeing it happen in the last 5 years?. That would be support. But if the folks on the advertisement side don't want it or don't see the purchasing power in that demo then it won't exist. But it's not due to a lack of popular support."

Black people in Boston don't have a ton of money but they do have the second-highest median household income of any major metro in the United States...only behind Washington DC. Higher than similarly priced markets like NYC LA and SF (all that have urban) with a smaller black percentage in LA and SF.

Basically, I think it's just a racist connotation that keeps advertisers and higher-ups in the Boston from embracing a black demographic. That's the truth.

 

[TheBigA]

Basically, I think it's just a racist connotation that keeps advertisers and higher-ups in the Boston from embracing a black demographic. That's the truth.

That's not my job. I just do what the advertisers want. I leave the other stuff to the politicians and the civil rights groups.

You give me a list of ten advertisers who will pay me $2 million or more per year? I'll play whatever music they want.

 

[DavidEduardo]

"pull a 2.5 in Boston-especially after seeing it happen in the last 5 years?. That would be support. But if the folks on the advertisement side don't want it or don't see the purchasing power in that demo then it won't exist. But it's not due to a lack of popular support."

That is not "support". It is just a raw share. A 2.5 share is a rating of about 0.2, meaning that only two out of every 1000 persons in Boston is listening at any given time.

And that 0.2 may not be in ages, income levels and ethnicities that certain advertisers want. It's up to them to support a station. It is up to stations to do formats that advertisers want.

Black people in Boston don't have a ton of money but they do have the second-highest median household income of any major metro in the United States...only behind Washington DC. Higher than similarly priced markets like NYC LA and SF (all that have urban) with a smaller black percentage in LA and SF.

And the market has some of the highest costs of living of any metro in the US... and it is quite a bit smaller than NYC, LA and SF.

Boston has about 400,000 Blacks. NYC has 3.2 million. LA has 980,000 and San Francisco has 560,000. LA, NYC and SF have much higher percentages of Hispanics with only just over 500,000 in Boston vs., for example, 6.5 million in LA. Hispanics, to a greater degree than non-Hispanic whites, contribute to Urban station listening (but generally not to Urban AC)

Cleveland, market 35, has about the same African American population as Boston. But the Black population is over 20% of the metro, so that becomes a much more important piece of an ad buy.

There are always one or two decent signals with poor ratings. If an Urban format could be profitable, it would be done. Radio owners, for the most part are only concerned with one color: green.

But, that said, the heightened awareness of the Black portion of our nation may have a positive effect on ad campaigns, attitudes and economics. This might be the time for Boston owners to consider an Urban format... or at least an Urban leaning CHUrban.

 

[TheBigA]

But, that said, the heightened awareness of the Black portion of our nation may have a positive effect on ad campaigns, attitudes and economics.

When you look at the clients who bankrolled the Black Information Network, its pretty impressive. But they're all national advertisers. No local. To do a radio station in that format, it helps to have some local money. Or else you end up with a completely syndicated station. Which iHeart might do.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

When you look at the clients who bankrolled the Black Information Network, its pretty impressive. But they're all national advertisers. No local. To do a radio station in that format, it helps to have some local money. Or else you end up with a completely syndicated station. Which iHeart might do.

Black Information Network is run here on WJMN HD2. I haven’t listened much, but I don’t think there’s any local programming content.

 

[UrbanTeenager]

That's not my job. I just do what the advertisers want. I leave the other stuff to the politicians and the civil rights groups.

You give me a list of ten advertisers who will pay me $2 million or more per year? I'll play whatever music they want.

I'm talking about the advertisers being biased prejudiced. Idk what it is that you do or who you are to comment on your racial views.

I'm just looking at the facts.

-Black households in Boston have the raw numbers (310k+, more than many markets+2nd/3rd gen Dominicans and Puerto Ricans)

-Have the income (2nd highest black median income for a major metro, 2018) and

-Have proven they can support an Urban (97.7 regularly logged 3.0-3.4)-yet no urban exists..why? Advertisers in the area don't believe in it.

 

[UrbanTeenager]

That is not "support". It is just a raw share. A 2.5 share is a rating of about 0.2, meaning that only two out of every 1000 persons in Boston is listening at any given time.

And that 0.2 may not be in ages, income levels and ethnicities that certain advertisers want. It's up to them to support a station. It is up to stations to do formats that advertisers want.


And the market has some of the highest costs of living of any metro in the US... and it is quite a bit smaller than NYC, LA and SF.

Boston has about 400,000 Blacks. NYC has 3.2 million. LA has 980,000 and San Francisco has 560,000. LA, NYC and SF have much higher percentages of Hispanics with only just over 500,000 in Boston vs., for example, 6.5 million in LA. Hispanics, to a greater degree than non-Hispanic whites, contribute to Urban station listening (but generally not to Urban AC)

Cleveland, market 35, has about the same African American population as Boston. But the Black population is over 20% of the metro, so that becomes a much more important piece of an ad buy.

There are always one or two decent signals with poor ratings. If an Urban format could be profitable, it would be done. Radio owners, for the most part are only concerned with one color: green.

But, that said, the heightened awareness of the Black portion of our nation may have a positive effect on ad campaigns, attitudes and economics. This might be the time for Boston owners to consider an Urban format... or at least an Urban leaning CHUrban.

1. As I said initially-the advertisers don't want it.

2.Flat out wrong about San Francisco, objectively. SF CSA has 560k blacks. Just Like Boston's. Boston has tens of thousands more black people on an MSA level. Check your numbers, please.

SF MSA: Census profile: San Francisco-Oakland-Berkeley, CA Metro Area

BOS MSA: Census profile: Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH Metro Area

3. Bostons MSA/CSA cover much more land are than Clevelands. You don't have to capture the entire MSA (97.7 primarily covers an area that is at least 13%+ black, if not more)
WKAF-FM Radio Station Coverage Map

Census profile: Boston, MA Metro Division

Census data for Boston, MA Metro Division (pop. 2,031,884), including age, race, sex, income, poverty, marital status, education and more.

censusreporter.org

4. Excuses.

 

[DavidEduardo]

I'm talking about the advertisers being biased prejudiced. Idk what it is that you do or who you are to comment on your racial views.

I'll tell you a little story:

When KLVE in LA went to #1 in 1995, it started to get orders from agencies with English language copy or recorded spots. But KLVE, K-love, was a Spanish language AC station. We'd call the agencies "to get permission" to do Spanish language versions. The answer was always the same, "Oh, I did not know that the station was in Spanish".

You see, agencies buy based on metrics. They have a target based generally on age and gender, and then they may by 25, 50, 100 or more markets based on the numbers for their target.

They often don't look at format or ethnicity or race. It's about the cost per pair of ears.

I'm just looking at the facts.

-Black households in Boston have the raw numbers (310k+, more than many markets+2nd/3rd gen Dominicans and Puerto Ricans)

-Have the income (2nd highest black median income for a major metro, 2018) and

-Have proven they can support an Urban (97.7 regularly logged 3.0-3.4)-yet no urban exists..why? Advertisers in the area don't believe in it.

You are assuming that advertisers look at household income and things like that. They generally don't. Local advertisers buy against their customer base, often using data in a certain number of mile radius of their location or locations. And if they use ratings to buy, they look at the cost vs the delivery.

And, again, income has to be referenced to cost of living. I'll bet Blacks in Birmingham have more discretionary income than those in Boston because the cost of housing, the taxes and lots of other things are lower, leaving more money left over. But ad agencies don't dig that deep. They just buy ears.

Sure, there may be some clients who "don't want those people in my store". We used to see it with Spanish language radio, too. But those are mostly Ma and Pa stores, not the big retail, product and service advertisers of major market radio.

 

[UrbanTeenager]

When you look at the clients who bankrolled the Black Information Network, its pretty impressive. But they're all national advertisers. No local. To do a radio station in that format, it helps to have some local money. Or else you end up with a completely syndicated station. Which iHeart might do.

I think that's the only way to go about it in Boston. An all syndicated urban station (simulcast would be ideal). I think it'd be somewhat easy for 97.7 to make that pivot. Leave JAMN as is. 96.9 will always be fine due to the personalities.

 

[DavidEduardo]

1. As I said initially-the advertisers don't want it.

2.Flat out wrong about San Francisco, objectively. SF CSA has 560k blacks. Just Like Boston's. Boston has tens of thousands more black people on an MSA level. Check your numbers, please.

SF MSA: Census profile: San Francisco-Oakland-Berkeley, CA Metro Area

BOS MSA: Census profile: Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH Metro Area

You are using the Census Metropolitan Statistical Area. Radio uses the Nielsen Metro Survey Area. Both are abbreviated as "MSA" but are most often very different.

In many cases, they are very different. I gave you the data from the Metro Survey Area, not the OMB/Census Metropolitan Statistical Area. The Nielsen areas are based on station usage and coverage.

3. Bostons MSA/CSA cover much more land are than Clevelands. You don't have to capture the entire MSA (97.7 primarily covers an area that is at least 13%+ black, if not more)
WKAF-FM Radio Station Coverage Map

You are using the wrong geographical definition. And Nielsen updates its population every year, using independent data processed from the interim Census data and ouside research.

I gave you the radio market data. It was updated in October of last year.

The 12+ data is in the Red Book at https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Arbitron/Red-Blue-Books/RedFall2020.pdf

 

[UrbanTeenager]

I'll tell you a little story:

When KLVE in LA went to #1 in 1995, it started to get orders from agencies with English language copy or recorded spots. But KLVE, K-love, was a Spanish language AC station. We'd call the agencies "to get permission" to do Spanish language versions. The answer was always the same, "Oh, I did not know that the station was in Spanish".

You see, agencies buy based on metrics. They have a target based generally on age and gender, and then they may by 25, 50, 100 or more markets based on the numbers for their target.

They often don't look at format or ethnicity or race. It's about the cost per pair of ears.

You are assuming that advertisers look at household income and things like that. They generally don't. Local advertisers buy against their customer base, often using data in a certain number of mile radius of their location or locations. And if they use ratings to buy, they look at the cost vs the delivery.

And, again, income has to be referenced to cost of living. I'll bet Blacks in Birmingham have more discretionary income than those in Boston because the cost of housing, the taxes and lots of other things are lower, leaving more money left over. But ad agencies don't dig that deep. They just buy ears.

Sure, there may be some clients who "don't want those people in my store". We used to see it with Spanish language radio, too. But those are mostly Ma and Pa stores, not the big retail, product and service advertisers of major market radio.

*Well no, they certainly do not. I've been to Alabama more than once.

You're talking about a lot of leg work I don't think IHeart is doing with 97.7 based on how it sounds, bills, and considering they've got thousands of stations.

I don't believe that 97.7 is pulling in any "ears" of value in its current format. Impossible...

 

[UrbanTeenager]

You are using the Census Metropolitan Statistical Area. Radio uses the Nielsen Metro Survey Area. Both as "MSA" but are most often very different.

In many cases, they are very different. I gave you the data from the Metro Survey Area, not the OMB/Census Metropolitan Statistical Area. The Nielsen areas are based on station usage and coverage.

You are using the wrong geographical definition. And Nielsen updates its population every year, using independent data processed from the interim Census data and ouside research.

I gave you the radio market data. It was updated in October of last year.

There are more black people in the Boston MSA and Boston CSA, thats a fact. Actually, the SF CSA boundaries expanded this past year. So now it has slightly more black people.

Still, the rating books give SF 438000 blacks and Boston 3560000.

 

[TheBigA]

Leave JAMN as is. 96.9 will always be fine due to the personalities.

They once carried The Breakfast Club, but replaced it with a local show.

 

[DavidEduardo]

*Well no, they certainly do not. I've been to Alabama more than once.

Please look up the definition of "discretionary income". You missed the point.

You're talking about a lot of leg work I don't think IHeart is doing with 97.7 based on how it sounds, bills, and considering they've got thousands of stations.

No, they don't. They have 865 stations (not including translators).

I don't believe that 97.7 is pulling in any "ears" of value in its current format. Impossible...

It is indeed a low biller. But it has a deficient signal, covering a limited part of the metro.

 

[DavidEduardo]

There are more black people in the Boston MSA and Boston CSA, thats a fact. Actually, the SF CSA boundaries expanded this past year. So now it has slightly more black people.

Still, the rating books give SF 438000 blacks and Boston 3560000.

Radio uses market areas based on usage of radio stations. It does not use Census data at all, nor do advertisers.

And that data is not from "ratings books". It is the statistical base used to project the sample in ratings into the universe.

 

[UrbanTeenager]

Please look up the definition of "discretionary income". You missed the point.

No, they don't. They have 865 stations (not including translators).

It is indeed a low biller. But it has a deficient signal, covering a limited part of the metro.

In my experience, black of people in Alabama have minimal discretionary income. Minimal. Very minimal.

865 not including translators huh? Yea, like i said thousands. Regardless of the exact number, they're not paying attention to WKAF-FM.

Signals fine. they often got 3+ on it, lol, don't blame the signal.

 

[UrbanTeenager]

Radio uses market areas based on usage of radio stations. It does not use Census data at all, nor do advertisers.

And that data is not from "ratings books". It is the statistical base used to project the sample in ratings into the universe.

I'm saying, I just checked Nielsen. I can only use the data available to the general population.
Nielsen Audio Ratings

Radio Industry News, Radio Show Prep, Radio Promotions, Radio Station Data, Podcast News

RADIO ONLINE offers the latest radio industry news, podcast news, radio show prep, radio promotions, radio station data and more. RADIO ONLINE has been serving the radio industry since 1989, with up-to-the-minute news at radio-online.com

ratings.radio-online.com

 

[UrbanTeenager]

DE, you constantly describe a broken and failing system to me. The jargon, insider knowledge, and obtuseness of it all make it clear why the product is what it is. everything is very convoluted. Almost every common-sense avenue is avoided in favor of arbitrary industry standards. Little room for experimentation despite the declining value of these stations. Weird.

 

[TheBigA]

Little room for experimentation despite the declining value of these stations. Weird.

Huh? You think experimentation would help declining value?

There's a lot of experimentation, as with the aforementioned Black Information Network. It depends on the market or station.

Everyone wants to believe that "If radio would just do what I want, it would solve their problems." It's not true.

 

[DavidEduardo]

In my experience, black of people in Alabama have minimal discretionary income. Minimal. Very minimal.

We are talking about Metro Birmingham, not Atmore or Abbeville. The two top stations there are Urban and Urban AC, and they bill accordingly... the AC is #2 in market billing, but the Urban is 5th because its demos are on the young side for many buys.

865 not including translators huh? Yea, like i said thousands. Regardless of the exact number, they're not paying attention to WKAF-FM.

Signals fine. they often got 3+ on it, lol, don't blame the signal.

They have just over 100 translators; most are not separately programmed from the AM that they simulcast. Among the few that don't simulcast an AM are several in the new iHeart Black news network.

Again, they don't have thousands. They have about 4% of all US radio stations (including translators)