While I like and respect Mr Mason (we've had some enjoyable exchanges about the KB-GR transmitter site. I tend to disagree with his music rotation of just 300 songs. People don't want to hear the same song every day. In the long run it gets tiresome fast. How about rotating out about 100-150 of those 300 every month or so, so that you don't burn them so bad that I never want to hear them again. Case in point "I'd Really Love To See You Tonight" England Dan & John Ford Coley has been burned so badly by every soft rock, oldies and standards station that it makes me dive for the off switch. Todd Storz and Gordon McLendon had a good idea but it's been taken way to far for too long. Aritha did more than just "Respect". Part of listening to the radio is the surprise of what's going to be played next, not the same 300 constantly repeated.
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Fall Nielsen Ratings
- Thread starter tbolt909
- Start date
Research proves that theory wrong time and again. Tighten the playlist, the ratings go up. Doesn't seem logical - but it works.
Our opinion doesn't matter because 1) We're likely not the station's target demo, and 2) We're radio pros so we don't listen the same way "regular" listeners do.
Welp, here's the thing... I am in the station's target demo, and I am not a radio pro, and I am a "regular" listener. [I found this forum only because I was looking for acquaintances from decades ago during a very ill-advised part-time job at a Lockport then-hayseed station while I was in my teens that lasted for literally just days.] I've lived in WNY (specifically, Amherst) my entire life. I am not afraid to try "new" things... to change my habits. And, I love music of almost any genre & era. Moreover, I want to be - and typically am - a cheerleader of sorts for local/WNY business of any/all types. So, honestly, it should be a cinch for WECK to snag my ears, no?
I just cannot get past my perception that WECK sounds "old". It sounds like something that has not progressed.
As far as repeating songs, I'm sure there's some kind of science to that. And I'm sure it's not easy. In my circle of peers, 97Rock always gets bashed because they seem to have only a couple dozen songs on the library. Can't stand that. The thing is, IMO, if y'all are gonna have a highly limited playlist, each and every song best be killer. Even then, it'll only be accepted for so long, right? There are a LOT of "Timeless Favorites".
I do have a question... who actually makes the decision of which songs are played on WECK? Is it a local person... or some canned list developed elsewhere?
WECK is designed to sound "Old". Buddy has stated that's the plan. One would assume that he has the final say on the playlist. Time will tell if his strategy works .
Stale playlists are common in Corporate Radio. Most Classic Rock stations have been using the same list for 20 years. It's based on the idea that people only listen 20 minutes a day. The songs are just "filler product". Real music lovers aren't seeking out Radio. They moved on long long ago...
Stale playlists are common in Corporate Radio. Most Classic Rock stations have been using the same list for 20 years. It's based on the idea that people only listen 20 minutes a day. The songs are just "filler product". Real music lovers aren't seeking out Radio. They moved on long long ago...
"Real music lovers" make up about 3% of the population. And they don't all love the same music, just their specific small group of favorites. It's usually smaller than a typical radio playlist, but doesn't contain any of the popular hits. Hopefully their love of music causes them to actually PAY for that music in some way, so their favorite artists can benefit from their "love." Otherwise they're just stealing music from those artists, who depend on fans for their livelihood.
Ha! If an/the objective is for the station to sound old, it is already a smashing success! It is far outperforming any & all competition of which I am aware. (Except, maybe, WLVL!! Doh!) 
lol
I'm not here to judge. Really, I've found this fascinating.
So, there must be more to targeting radio listeners (i.e. me) than music genre, age group, and simple geography.
I'm curious, has broadcast radio programming become to niche-like for its own good? Record stores (< yes, I said 'record') used to have like three bins - Pop, Classical, Jazz/Blues... and maybe County Western. I think the same was true for radio stations. - Maybe someplace like WPHD/FM would do something out-of-the-box overnight. Seems to be a boatload more variants now... at least it seems to me that there is. Is it too fragmented to be economically sustainable?
I tie the above question to WECK because I keep seeing the "super-serve 55 - 70" thing... but it must really be a much more narrow objective... and is that tiny slice really viable for a broadcast operation? I trust, expect, and hope that the powers that be are smarter than I.
lolI'm not here to judge. Really, I've found this fascinating.
So, there must be more to targeting radio listeners (i.e. me) than music genre, age group, and simple geography.
I'm curious, has broadcast radio programming become to niche-like for its own good? Record stores (< yes, I said 'record') used to have like three bins - Pop, Classical, Jazz/Blues... and maybe County Western. I think the same was true for radio stations. - Maybe someplace like WPHD/FM would do something out-of-the-box overnight. Seems to be a boatload more variants now... at least it seems to me that there is. Is it too fragmented to be economically sustainable?
I tie the above question to WECK because I keep seeing the "super-serve 55 - 70" thing... but it must really be a much more narrow objective... and is that tiny slice really viable for a broadcast operation? I trust, expect, and hope that the powers that be are smarter than I.
Yes. Here's why: Commercial radio is financed by advertising, and advertising is sold based on audience size. So if the audience for a particular genre is too fragmented, as has happened to rock, then it becomes impossible to get advertising. The point can be made that there may be some businesses who would want to reach those fragmented audiences, but those businesses might not be able to afford the cost of radio advertising or collectively provide enough revenue to cover the costs of a radio station.
On the other hand, there are non-commercial radio stations whose funding is based on listener donations. They are more likely to play jazz, blues, and folk (if they have an active fan base in the are, as they do in Buffalo). There is also the option of satellite radio, which is also based on subscriptions rather than advertising.
In the particular case of WECK, you have an owner who knows advertising very well, and has a strong client base. He has built his radio station to serve that client base.
People who buy music and go to shows are supporting musicians. They don't need Radio for that.
Whenever a radio station listener complains about stale programming, they are blithely dismissed. Management says "You're listening too much". It's just product and listeners shouldn't expect quality. If Radio owners don't care, why should a listener?
CBS got out of Radio because it has little hope of growth...
Whenever a radio station listener complains about stale programming, they are blithely dismissed. Management says "You're listening too much". It's just product and listeners shouldn't expect quality. If Radio owners don't care, why should a listener?
CBS got out of Radio because it has little hope of growth...
The problem is people are not buying music any more. So that's a big problem for musicians.
However musicians need exposure. That's what radio gives. But we've reached a point where the number of musicians has glutted the marketplace. Someone has to be the gatekeeper, and radio is one of those things. Along the way, they anger fans of the fringe artists, but that's just how it goes. If fringe artists want more exposure, maybe they should make more commercial music. If that's not what they want to do, then they have to be satisfied with the level of exposure they receive, which is on their own website or on websites catering to their style of music.
Not sure I completely agree with this. I literally do not remember the last time I was 'exposed' to an artist via ota broadcast radio. Probably in the 1980's(?). In the last 10 - 15 years... not a chance. I wish I could go to ota radio to find that kind of exposure... it's just not there... at least in WNY.
Exposure is exposure, whether it's the first time, or the millionth time. The more exposure you get to a song, the more familiar it becomes. Ask artists who get FM airplay if they notice a difference in their concerts as their songs get more radio exposure. They will tell you they can see it. The familiarity from FM leads to more streaming. It's all part of an eco-system that promotes music. Those artists who only get online exposure aren't as top-of-mind as those who get multi-platform exposure.
Ah. Got it. I mistakenly associated "exposure" with "introduction."
No problem. BTST if you listen to any currents-based FM station, whether it is country, pop, or urban, chances are very good that at some point in your experience, you will either hear a new song or a new artist for the first time.
That's not true in my experience. However, what we do is listen for changing opinions and trends, not the comments of those few listeners who think variety means playing songs most listeners don't want to hear; we are looking for mass appeal, not the attraction of very niche, very atypical listeners.
So when we hear the same variety and repetition comments we have heard for 6 decades, we either probe for changing reasons or politely thank the person for taking the time to let us know.
But the fact remains that "variety" means "only songs I like" and "repetition" means "playing songs I don't like".
Even if we think that, we should know to respond, "you listen a lot more than most, and we have to keep everyone as happy as we can."
The radio station is the product. We give it away to consumers so advertisers will want to be part of it. We care about listeners as ad rates are proportional to audience size.
There has been no audience growth since the 30's. What you are addressing here is that CBS could not present revenue growth to investors in an era when Amazon and Google and the likes present double digit growth figures every year.
I have not "grown" for 50 years... but that does not mean I am dead, either.
Mr. Mason makes some interesting points. 1) There is not the traffic on the AM band that there used to be. The variety of formats on the band years ago meant more people were in the listening universe and that likely had a positive effect on WECK's ratings. Today it's basically just News/Talk WBEN that's attracting visitors to the AM Band. 2) While I don't think Dave was suggesting that WECK play only 300 songs over and over, the tight playlist philosophy has been part of successful radio stations for decades. I remember years ago being involved with a station that had a playlist in the beginning of about 1,500 songs including some cuts by Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, and even Glen Miller's "In The Mood". The playlist was reduced to about 700 songs including current music and oldies. The station grew to become the most popular in town, #1 25-54 and more than once #1 12+. A shorter playlist of great tunes properly rotated wins. My feeling a couple months ago was that WECK was playing a lot of nice music, TOO MUCH nice music. Too many songs that may have been slightly popular at one time, but have long since been forgotten. They were not playing enough of the "killer" songs that were familiar to, and remembered by, everyone. 3) Mason's third point that I also agree with - the station often sounds very sleepy with ballad after ballad after ballad. At one point a few months ago, one morning I counted about 7 ballads in a row. Inexcusable!
Especially considering that even the cheapest music scheduling software makes that kind of thing easy to prevent. If they're scheduling music manually, it's very easy to forget tempo is very a important element in programming. Just do a search online for "cheap music scheduling software" and you'll see five choices.
B
Buddy Shula
Guest
Ha! If an/the objective is for the station to sound old, it is already a smashing success! It is far outperforming any & all competition of which I am aware. (Except, maybe, WLVL!! Doh!)
I'm not here to judge. Really, I've found this fascinating.
So, there must be more to targeting radio listeners (i.e. me) than music genre, age group, and simple geography.
I'm curious, has broadcast radio programming become to niche-like for its own good? Record stores (< yes, I said 'record') used to have like three bins - Pop, Classical, Jazz/Blues... and maybe County Western. I think the same was true for radio stations. - Maybe someplace like WPHD/FM would do something out-of-the-box overnight. Seems to be a boatload more variants now... at least it seems to me that there is. Is it too fragmented to be economically sustainable?
I tie the above question to WECK because I keep seeing the "super-serve 55 - 70" thing... but it must really be a much more narrow objective... and is that tiny slice really viable for a broadcast operation? I trust, expect, and hope that the powers that be are smarter than I.
This is a pretty easy formula. When you talk about a "viable broadcast operation", you have no idea what the expenses vs revenue and cash flow and debt service is. Would Townsquare go under if they simply targeted a 55 plus audience? Of course they would. They need to answer to stockholders, for the huge money they paid for these radio stations, and the expenses they have with payroll, etc. They would be fired if they made a 100K profit. I wouldn't. I do not need to pay for huge facilities across the country, over-paid stations, and budgets that keep going up because stockholders expect huge returns.
Buffalo is an old, non transient city. No one serves the over 55 population in terms of radio, especially in the metro. WECK does. That is our niche. It is far better to be a "master of one, than a jack of all trades" - my company does not sell digital, we do not sell, social...we focus on radio, and serving our audience the right way. We do this will customer focused ideas, programming geared toward adults over 50 - that's it. Someone has who makes the music decisions. I do. I make every decision. I ask for opinions of my trusted staff, like Glen Topolski, my PD...It is a team effort and I love that. I want every staff person to feel like they own the stations. All my staff has a stake in making sure WECK does great. :Great" can mean a lot of things. Fiscally, emotionally, audience size...the whole thing. I am happy with the 45-60K weekly cume audience that WECK reaches. I want to grow it, and I am working on many ways to do that. I try to keep you folks informed, because I know each of you is interested in broadcasting. I appreciate that. I like to share my vision. I was blessed enough to have my own stations, and I am trying to do the right thing. Its always a work in progress, but I am happy where we stand right now. But I do realize that if you don't grow, you die.
Sounds good to me! If only we had a WECK where I live!
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