Failures with great signals

[MsMusicRadio]

Since we have successful class 1V stations, what about 50,000 watters that could never compete or 5,000 watters at the lower frequencies that always bombed with every format change? I'll start with WWSW AM in Pittsburgh at 970. Floundered through the Sixties behind KDKA.

 

[mleach]

5,000 watters that had bombed with every format change? The one I can think of right off the bat is Denver's KLZ-AM 560, at least that has been pretty much the the case since 1990.

I have no idea what KLZ did prior to their long running country music format that started in the mid 70's (?) but when KLZ dropped country in 1989 in favor of Z-Rock heavy metal music mainly because as I can recall KLZ had got the idea from MTV/Z-Rock that heavy metal was to Denver as country music is to Nashville ( no I don't get that either )..and Z-Rock had wanted power to cover all of Denver and most of Colorado..even if we are talking AM RADIO !! Anyway ever since then KLZ had going through a variety of formats...none of which KLZ had stayed with for very long.

I was checking out KLZ's Wikipedia page..for being Denver's ( and I assume Colorado's ) oldest station..its quite short. Hmmmmmm..maybe KLZ has "too much" history to be explained on Wikipedia since it has seems they have done everything..and a lot of that within the last 20 years.

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

A case can be made that WLAC in Nashville didn't live up to its 50,000-watt potential for a number of years.

Of course, WLAC made a tidy sum with the PI programming at night. And certainly, Gene Nobles, John R., Hoss Allen and Herman Grizzard were legendary.

Yet, in the Nashville survey area itself, WLAC was an also-ran, bested year after year by WSIX for the adult audience and by WKDA for total audience. Aside from clearing CBS programming, WLAC's daytime programming was little more than a placeholder for the nighttime skywave service. Its radio sister (WLAC-FM at 105.9 ``Stereo 106'') outperformed its big brother in the era when FM was largely treated as a stepchild.

The first attempt at talk programming (1970-1972) was dreadful but it gave way to a fairly successful run as a top 40 for the remainder of the decade, reaching #1 in Arbitron in the mid-70's.

 

[michael hagerty]

I don't know if you could call it an outright failure, but KFI, Los Angeles (50,000 watts at 640) thrashed about for a number of years...always trailing MOR competitor KMPC (a much more limited 50,000 watts/10kw directional nighttime at 710) from the mid-fifties through the mid-seventies....at one time experimenting with virtual block programming as "Total Spectrum Radio" (1972-1973), a mix of MOR, Country, Big Bands and Talk at different times of the day.

Word is they came thisclose to doing a deal with Bill Drake when he left RKO in 1973 to go Top40, but he went with KIQQ instead and KFI went Adult Contemporary...eventually morphing into Top 40 under John Rook in 1976. Still, it was several years before KFI became a big winner in Top 40, and it was short-lived.

I can recall on three separate occasions (early 70s, mid 70s and mid 80s) hearing L.A. radio insiders say that if KFI turned off the transmitter after Lohman and Barkley signed off in the morning that the ratings wouldn't be affected. An exaggeration, but indicative of just how much that monster signal struggled.

Of course, in the late 80s, they went talk, added Rush Limbaugh and they've been a powerhouse for more than 20 years.

---Michael Hagerty

 

[amfmxm]

Chicago's 560/WIND. Need I say more? (I know that you radio junkies know).

Always one of Chicago's 5 best signals--better than 1000/WCFL (WMVP). The market outgrew 1000's 50-kw directional signal, but it has never outgrown WIND's 5-kw blowtorch. Locally on par with 670, 720, 780 & 890. Who cared that you couldn't hear WIND in Effingham? Or Cleveland?

WIND reached its peak around 35 years ago, slipping past WMAQ for a minute-and-a-half into the #4 spot, just before FM took over. It dropped into the zeros by the mid-eighties and has steadfastly stayed there ever since, despite the continued great success of the four AM 1-A clears.

A history of mismanagement extending back at least 50 years and continuing to this day...

 

[MsMusicRadio]

WRNL 910 AM in Richmond VA. In 1970, it tried to compete as a "chicken rock" station against WLEE. When that didn't work, it tried to add AOR at night, but moved that to sister WRXL FM. I think it tried to compete with WRVA as an AC oulet, but that didn't really work. They have been talk and now sports. When Richmond had only 5 full-timers, WRNL seemed to waste it's once good signal.

 

[michael hagerty]

And I suppose KFRC, San Francisco before 1966 would count, too. As would KHJ, Los Angeles before 1965.

---Michael Hagerty

 

[DavidEduardo]

WIND reached its peak around 35 years ago, slipping past WMAQ for a minute-and-a-half into the #4 spot, just before FM took over. It dropped into the zeros by the mid-eighties and has steadfastly stayed there ever since, despite the continued great success of the four AM 1-A clears.

A history of mismanagement extending back at least 50 years and continuing to this day...

As a former PD of WIND, I am quite familiar with the history from the time Tichenor bought the station in the mid 80's until they (as Univision) sold it in 2004. Doing Spanish oldies until about 1997 and then news talk till the sale, the station averaged around a 1 share, but it was nearly double that in 18 to 49. At that level, the station billed very nicely and was considered one of the jewels of the company until an opportunity to swap and get an FM presented itself...

 

[Corky Marlowe]

I can recall on three separate occasions (early 70s, mid 70s and mid 80s) hearing L.A. radio insiders say that if KFI turned off the transmitter after Lohman and Barkley signed off in the morning that the ratings wouldn't be affected. An exaggeration, but indicative of just how much that monster signal struggled.

From what I've heard, KFI had the Dodgers around that time too, and I'm sure that helped.

What about WLW in Cincinnati? Weren't they trailing WKRC in the ratings before Randy Michaels came in and tossed the dreadful NBC TalkNet nighttime lineup, among other things?

KRLA was 50k, right? Seems like they got very good at shooting themselves in the foot.(Maybe someone in the southland can correct me.)

WIND was mentioned...From what I can tell, they were Group W's red-headed stepkid despite some A1 talent in the 70's (Robert W. Morgan, Stu Collins, The Polish Princess, etc.)

 

[amfmxm]

WIND reached its peak around 35 years ago, slipping past WMAQ for a minute-and-a-half into the #4 spot, just before FM took over. It dropped into the zeros by the mid-eighties and has steadfastly stayed there ever since, despite the continued great success of the four AM 1-A clears.

A history of mismanagement extending back at least 50 years and continuing to this day...

As a former PD of WIND, I am quite familiar with the history from the time Tichenor bought the station in the mid 80's until they (as Univision) sold it in 2004. Doing Spanish oldies until about 1997 and then news talk till the sale, the station averaged around a 1 share, but it was nearly double that in 18 to 49. At that level, the station billed very nicely and was considered one of the jewels of the company until an opportunity to swap and get an FM presented itself...

David, I had indeed forgotten Tichenor's relative success with WIND--and I know that it was a money-maker despite hanging around the 1-share (12+) mark. I'll admit that with no fluency in Spanish I've never been able to engage with Hispanic formats as a listener, and that has become a glaring weakness as years have gone by.

On the other hand, WIND's full-market blowtorch signal coverage has always allowed it to compete on the biggest stage. Tichenor consciously chose not to do that. So has Salem. And as Corky Marlowe notes, Group W seemed never quite willing to fully embrace the Chicago opportunity.

Just think what 560 could have been had Westinghouse recognized WIND as the equivalent of WINS, WBZ or KDKA?

 

[KeithE4]

Just think what 560 could have been had Westinghouse recognized WIND as the equivalent of WINS, WBZ or KDKA?

Well, a couple of years after selling WIND, they bought WMAQ. We know what they did then, but I wonder if all news on WIND would have been able to compete with WBBM like sister-station KFWB did with KNX in LA.

 

[radiorob2.0]

I can recall on three separate occasions (early 70s, mid 70s and mid 80s) hearing L.A. radio insiders say that if KFI turned off the transmitter after Lohman and Barkley signed off in the morning that the ratings wouldn't be affected. An exaggeration, but indicative of just how much that monster signal struggled.

From what I've heard, KFI had the Dodgers around that time too, and I'm sure that helped.

What about WLW in Cincinnati? Weren't they trailing WKRC in the ratings before Randy Michaels came in and tossed the dreadful NBC TalkNet nighttime lineup, among other things?

KRLA was 50k, right? Seems like they got very good at shooting themselves in the foot.(Maybe someone in the southland can correct me.)

WIND was mentioned...From what I can tell, they were Group W's red-headed stepkid despite some A1 talent in the 70's (Robert W. Morgan, Stu Collins, The Polish Princess, etc.)

Prior to Randy Michaels, WLW was still airing a simulcast of "The Bob Braun Show" from WLW-T. A few years later under Michaels, WLW was a rock leaning Full Service AC playing hairbands. It was strange hearing "Once Bitten Twice Shy" on what was now "The Big One".

WGBF Evansville in the early 70's was an old school MOR in the ratings basement. New owners came in and flipped the format to high energy Top 40. WGBF went from a six share to a 30 share. The heritage Top 40 WJPS then sounded dated and the listeners disappeared as they fell from a 25 share to a 0.6. The frequency has equal coverage to WGBF in the daytime but JPS had a nasty null over a portion of the city where growth took place. WJPS faded into a few format changes and then took the call letters and programming of an FM religious station that recently changed. The signal, now WVHI, has sat at the bottom of the ratings for years.

WKYC Cleveland, despite a monster signal, lost the Top 40 battle to WIXY due to network commitments.

 

[Corky Marlowe]

WKYC Cleveland, despite a monster signal, lost the Top 40 battle to WIXY due to network commitments.

This was brought up on an earlier thread...The network in question was NBC, and the committments included live coverage of the '68 conventions, IIRC.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

Was it WIXY or WKYC that ended the reign of Color Channel 14? Was 850 in Cleveland an under performer through out the Sixties ? What about WGAR through out the Sixties?

 

[jh]

Chicago's 560/WIND. Need I say more? (I know that you radio junkies know).

Always one of Chicago's 5 best signals--better than 1000/WCFL (WMVP). The market outgrew 1000's 50-kw directional signal, but it has never outgrown WIND's 5-kw blowtorch. Locally on par with 670, 720, 780 & 890. Who cared that you couldn't hear WIND in Effingham? Or Cleveland?

WIND reached its peak around 35 years ago, slipping past WMAQ for a minute-and-a-half into the #4 spot, just before FM took over. It dropped into the zeros by the mid-eighties and has steadfastly stayed there ever since, despite the continued great success of the four AM 1-A clears.

A history of mismanagement extending back at least 50 years and continuing to this day...

You're not going back far enough. WIND was at it's peak in the 50s and early 60s. I'm not sure how the station did overall, but morning man Howard Miller was #1 in the market on WIND in the late 50s, early 60s.

 

[gr8oldies]

I would echo WLAC..especially the news-talk era that was mostly fire and brimstone preaching at night. The minute afternoon drive was over it was "This is the Fire and Brimstone Hour". Think they started at 4 or 5pm on Sundays. I'm sure they brought in the bucks. WLW's transformation was quite a shock. Gary Burbank had started 1980 or so. But once Randy Michaels got there, the old line elements were out, the music was "Male A/C" with "hot wax weekends". Dale Sommers was brought in to do a truckers show, Randy Michaels was the first "Midday" talk host in the slot that has been occupied since the mid 80s by Mike McConnell. Bill Cunningham came later..pretty much the rest is history.

A once decent station that is failing miserably. WONE in Dayton, OH. Even with a simulcast partner in Springfield (WIZE) the can't even make a one share with sports talk. They had a history of top 40, MOR, a couple of decade run with Country and didn't do too bad with Big Band/Nostalgia. Thye powers that be flipped it and it's been in the toilet ever since.

CKLW..what can I say? I know it is successful as the hometown news/talk voice of Windsor and Essex County, ONT. But a signal that covers four or five US states daytime and a good share of Canada (less US than they used to) doing the goings on of a small county? I don't know.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Was it WIXY or WKYC that ended the reign of Color Channel 14? Was 850 in Cleveland an under performer through out the Sixties ? What about WGAR through out the Sixties?

WHK was the dominant one in the early 60's under Metromedia, until WIXY came on and domminated into the early 70's.

WJW was MOR through the 60's (afterr a fleeting period of nights-only Top 40 in the 50's) and featured TV Host Big Wilson (later on TV in Miami) in the morning, playing piano under his own voice.

WGAR was also MOR, until new PD John Lund did the early gold-based incarnation of AC (which the trades called "chicken rock") in around 1972.

WDOK was also MOR, but with more instrmentals.

KYW/WKYC was borderline AC, Top 40 and MOR back and forth, complicated no doubt by the issues between Westinghouse and NBC.

WERE was the also-ran Top 30 in the 50's, due partly to the bad signal and also to just not being as good. However, with jocks like Bill Randall and Specs Howard they had been #1 in the mid to late 50's.

 

[DavidEduardo]

WKYC Cleveland, despite a monster signal, lost the Top 40 battle to WIXY due to network commitments.

WKYC was already in its MOR phase then. It was WHK and WIXY that went at it... with secondary competition from WERE.

 

[DavidEduardo]

KRLA was 50k, right? Seems like they got very good at shooting themselves in the foot.(Maybe someone in the southland can correct me.)

50 day, 20 nights. But the issue was not power, but the combination of Bill Drake/Ron Jacobs and the license troubles that ended up in revocation for KRLA were the real causes.

 

[michael hagerty]

From what I've heard, KFI had the Dodgers around that time too, and I'm sure that helped.

KRLA was 50k, right? Seems like they got very good at shooting themselves in the foot.(Maybe someone in the southland can correct me.)

Yeah...KFI had the Dodgers, KMPC the Angels and KMPC beat them. And things did get worse when KFI lost the Dodgers to KABC around '74.

KRLA was actually very competitive until about 1972. And when they came back in the late 70s, they came back strong...with nearly a 15-year run of good to great numbers.

---Michael Hagerty