Commercial College/University stations

[fybush]

Re: Commercial College/University stations

Scott knows this stuff better than I do, but IIRC it's not just that such NCE allocations in the commercial band are there because there's no room for a full-sized (Class Bx or Cx) NCE due to lots of little NCE's or whatever...but also because there's not really all that much demand for a commercial allocation in the market.

I'm specifically thinking of Cape Cod's WZAI, which did have TV6 issues but really that market is incredibly over-served and I don't think any sane commercial operator would think they could really make a go of it with a new station. Not after paying whatever the auction would inevitably cost.

And yet commercial operators keep coming in - there's still a 98.7A coming to the Cape (Harwich, I think), and it will be commercial. 94.3 was a commercial channel, too. There's no NCE reservation on it. WGBH chose to enter the auction and bid for it along with the commercial players, and it took a bid of $3.927 million back in 2004 to get the channel. (Seems amazing eight years later, doesn't it?)

If WGBH chose to sell 94.3, it could go commercial without an issue.

(The FCC doesn't consider "demand for a commercial station" as a factor when reserving a commercial-band channel for NCE; it's purely technical. Either you're a first or second NCE service to at least 10% of the population within your 60 dBu, with no comparable reserved-band channel available, or you're not.)

 

[w9wi]

Re: Commercial College/University stations

Let's say I do the math & find 98.9A is allocatable at Provincetown.. and I file the petition.. and it's approved.. and before or during the filing window, someone files an acceptable petition to get it reserved non-commercial.. but several applications are filed to use the channel for commercial operation.

What happens?

Can an existing commercial-band allotment only be reserved non-commercial if nobody has expressed any interest (by filing an application) in using it for a commercial station?

 

[Poledo]

Re: Commercial College/University stations

Okay, I think I get it. So here's a similar question to w9wi's...

Fort Walton Beach, FL gets grade A reception from public radio WUWF in Pensacola, FL. They also get grade B or C reception from WFSW and WKGC from Panama City, FL. Since the non-commercial dial is so full of religious broadcasters there is no room for another non-com allocation. I doubt there is even any room for a 1.5kw commercial allocation... but can't Class A non-coms be 100 watts or something much lower than the 1.5kw minimum requirement for commercial stations?
So if space on the commercial band could be found for a NCE allocation at the minimum NCE Class A power, would that be an option?
Even if it's not an option for a second non-com, since non-coms don't have to find enough space on the dial for 1.5kw, could someone use that as a loophole to apply for a non-com allocation anywhere in the country?

 

[w9wi]

Re: Commercial College/University stations

Okay, I think I get it. So here's a similar question to w9wi's...

Fort Walton Beach, FL gets grade A reception from public radio WUWF in Pensacola, FL. They also get grade B or C reception from WFSW and WKGC from Panama City, FL. Since the non-commercial dial is so full of religious broadcasters there is no room for another non-com allocation. I doubt there is even any room for a 1.5kw commercial allocation... but can't Class A non-coms be 100 watts or something much lower than the 1.5kw minimum requirement for commercial stations?
So if space on the commercial band could be found for a NCE allocation at the minimum NCE Class A power, would that be an option?
Even if it's not an option for a second non-com, since non-coms don't have to find enough space on the dial for 1.5kw, could someone use that as a loophole to apply for a non-com allocation anywhere in the country?

There's no such thing as "Grade A", "Grade B", or "Grade C" for FM. (those terms apply only to analog TV)

What you do have are "protected contour" (60dBu for most stations, 57dBu for commercial B1 stations, 54dBu for commercial B) and "principal community contour" (70dBu for all commercial stations, 60dBu for non-coms).

_________________________________________________

Since no new Class D stations are being licensed, new non-commercial stations must meet the minimum requirements for Class A. Those minimum requirements are the same as for commercial stations, 100 watts. (lower powers may be used if the antenna is high enough to deliver 60dBu at 6km)

The difference is that a channel above 92MHz cannot be allotted unless that channel can be used by a full-power (6kw/100m) Class A station without interfering with anyone. Once you get the channel allotted, you can apply to *use* it for a 100-watt commercial station but it must be *possible* to use it at 6kw. This restriction applies whether the the >92MHz channel is reserved for non-commercial operation or not.

A channel below 92MHz may be used as long as you can operate at whatever power you specify on the application (again, potentially as little as 100 watts) without interfering. Your channel doesn't need to be able to handle a 6kw station.

_________________________________________________

So if space on the commercial band could be found for a NCE allocation at the minimum NCE Class A power, would that be an option?

No, because an allocation can only be made in the commercial band if it's possible to operate a station on that allocation at *maximum* Class A power.

 

[Poledo]

Re: Commercial College/University stations

I used Grade A, B, and C as generic terms... but I actually though "grade B FM coverage" was a commonly used term in radio, even if not official.

I never knew that a noncommercial had to find room on the dial for a full 6kw of power. I also thought that Class A FMs were kinda broken into two categories... it could either be 1.5kw (maybe 3kw) or 6kw minimum ERP available but only required to use 100 watts to keep the license legal. Is that an outdated rule or am I totally off base?

I am pretty sure the channel spacing requirements are more lax in the 88.1-91.9 band... you sure the power requirements aren't lax too?
Those channel spacing requirement differences between the 88.1-91.9 and 92.1-107.9 parts of the band absolutely can not be used to try to allocate a NCE to the commercial band?

 

[fybush]

Re: Commercial College/University stations

I used Grade A, B, and C as generic terms... but I actually though "grade B FM coverage" was a commonly used term in radio, even if not official.

I never knew that a noncommercial had to find room on the dial for a full 6kw of power. I also thought that Class A FMs were kinda broken into two categories... it could either be 1.5kw (maybe 3kw) or 6kw minimum ERP available but only required to use 100 watts to keep the license legal. Is that an outdated rule or am I totally off base?

I am pretty sure the channel spacing requirements are more lax in the 88.1-91.9 band... you sure the power requirements aren't lax too?
Those channel spacing requirement differences between the 88.1-91.9 and 92.1-107.9 parts of the band absolutely can not be used to try to allocate a NCE to the commercial band?

Absolutely not, no.

For channels 201-220 (88.1-91.9), which are allocated purely on the basis of contour protection*, 100 watts is the minimum ERP.

For channels 221-300, regardless of NCE or commercial operation, channels are allocated on a mileage-separation basis. New allocations must be fully-spaced for 6 kW class A operation at a minimum. Class A stations that were allocated under a previous set of rules, back when 3 kW was the class A maximum, are grandfathered, but those grandfathering rules can't help you with a new allocation.

[*Class designations are given to stations in this band for a few limited purposes: they govern cross-border protection; they govern spacings between NCE stations on 91.5/91.7/91.9 and commercial-band stations; and they govern IF spacings between reserved-band stations and commercial-band stations between 98.7 and 102.7. Any NCE station between 100 watts and 6 kW/100m is designated an "A" for this purpose.]

 

[Poledo]

Re: Commercial College/University stations

Thanks Scott. You learned me some stuff this week.
One more request. Do the math on WBHY-FM and tell me why they are C1 instead of C2. What upgrade potential does WBHY-FM have?

 

[fybush]

Re: Commercial College/University stations

Thanks Scott. You learned me some stuff this week.
One more request. Do the math on WBHY-FM and tell me why they are C1 instead of C2.

The maximum for C2 is 50 kW/150m. WBHY-FM operates at 190m. A maximum C2 height-derated for 190m would be 31 kW, and because WBHY-FM is 33 kW, that kicks it up into the next class, C1.

What upgrade potential does WBHY-FM have?

At a quick glance, it looks like there might be some upgrade potential... but that, I'd have to run a study on, and those don't come for free on messageboards

 

[Poledo]

Re: Commercial College/University stations

Thanks Scott. You learned me some stuff this week.
One more request. Do the math on WBHY-FM and tell me why they are C1 instead of C2.

The maximum for C2 is 50 kW/150m. WBHY-FM operates at 190m. A maximum C2 height-derated for 190m would be 31 kW, and because WBHY-FM is 33 kW, that kicks it up into the next class, C1.

So those tricky Christians added 2kw to the signal and secured a C1 license. I knew it was close and I had tried doing the math over a decade ago with the same numbers they have today.... I thought they were right at or below the C2 limit then but I knew I was wrong.
WBHY's C1 license does not mean they have room to go a full 100kw from "some" location covering Mobile, correct. That's they way non-com works?

 

[fybush]

Re: Commercial College/University stations

Thanks Scott. You learned me some stuff this week.
One more request. Do the math on WBHY-FM and tell me why they are C1 instead of C2.

The maximum for C2 is 50 kW/150m. WBHY-FM operates at 190m. A maximum C2 height-derated for 190m would be 31 kW, and because WBHY-FM is 33 kW, that kicks it up into the next class, C1.

So those tricky Christians added 2kw to the signal and secured a C1 license. I knew it was close and I had tried doing the math over a decade ago with the same numbers they have today.... I thought they were right at or below the C2 limit then but I knew I was wrong.
WBHY's C1 license does not mean they have room to go a full 100kw from "some" location covering Mobile, correct. That's they way non-com works?

Correct. NCE-band stations are licensed based on contour overlap, not on mileage spacing, and so the only reason there's a class designation on them at all is for coordination with commercial-based services. Because WBHY slightly exceeds the C2 maximum, it gets C1-class mileage protection against commercial stations wherever that applies. In this case, that's not very applicable: it would control IF spacing to stations on 99.1 and 99.3. It's a bigger deal for stations on 91.5 and above, since it controls their spacing to stations on 92.1/92.3/92.5.

 

[Poledo]

Re: Commercial College/University stations

Is the IF issue the reason 99.1 from Biloxi has a null in WBHY's direction?