Beginning and end of the Oldies era

[thathoustonradiogeek]

What is known as oldies, according to what I've read online, starts in 1955 with Bill Haley's "Rock Around The Clock".

What year is considered the "end" of the Oldies era? After doing research on songs I listened to on my (now defunct) local oldies station, the "youngest" material was 1972-ish.

Can this be considered correct?

On a related note: I consider the Disco era to begin in 1973 (with "Love's Theme" and "T.S.O.P.") and end in 1980, with a last gasp in 1981 with Stars On's "Beatles Medley".

PS: My oldies station here in Houston used to be KLDE 94.5 (later 107.5). It 's now Classic Hits KHTC K-Hits, though they still play oldies on their HD-2 channel.

Thanks in advance.

 

[landtuna]

What is known as oldies, according to what I've read online, starts in 1955 with Bill Haley's "Rock Around The Clock".

What year is considered the "end" of the Oldies era? After doing research on songs I listened to on my (now defunct) local oldies station, the "youngest" material was 1972-ish.

You're gonna get a whole bunch of opinions because these names were originally marketing terms and a lot of water has gone over that dam since then. From a listener perspective I think identifying music by chronological measurement is inaccurate. "Oldies" once referred to music that was about 20 years old. Now its range is considerably greater and pretty meaningless. I've classified my R'nR by breaking down into sub-genre's which I realize wouldn't be practical for branding purposes.

Rockabilly/BeBop/Doo Wop - 1955-1960
Surf/Car - 1960-1964
Protest Rock - 1964-1975
British Invasion - 1064-1970 (except for the Stones, who seem to go on forever)
Classic Rock - 1970-1980

Obviously there are many artists whose work does not fit easily into these groups. Think Roy Orbison for one. For those songs I have another grouping called "soft rock" and artists from all era's fit in that group.

Just my two cents.

 

[thathoustonradiogeek]

Your input is heartfeltedly (is that a word?) appreciated.

I should have typed this in my original post, but, the reason I'm asking is for the purpose of building iTunes playlists for my iPod. I don't want to lump everything on one playlist nor do I want to end up with too many niche-playlists.

You're right regarding the 20 year old definition of oldies: in 1964 Big Band Music was Oldies.

Which means that the music I grew up with: 1980's, should be considered Oldies by now, but nobody does.

Well, I am not going to. ;D

As for Classic Rock, I consider the CR era to start in 1963 with The Beatles version of Twist & Shout and end somewhere in the mid-1990's.
So, indeed, each listener's particular mileage will vary.

 

[landtuna]

I should have typed this in my original post, but, the reason I'm asking is for the purpose of building iTunes playlists for my iPod. I don't want to lump everything on one playlist nor do I want to end up with too many niche-playlists.

That is a different question. Here is how I assigned my playlists:

Country (all Country, which isn't my biggest playlist)
Soft Rock (Dire Straits, Cat Stevens)
Rock (Moody Blues, Queen, CCR)
Easy Listening (Connie Francis, Johnny Mathis)
BeBop (late 50's stuff - Rick Nelson, Fats, Everly's)
Doo Wop (mid/late 50's vocal groups)
Comedy (Ray Stevens, Playmates etc.)

I do have some songs/artists which appear in more than one genre. Don Williams, a soft country singer is in both Country and Easy Listening. Some Doo Wop songs also fit the BeBop era. Likewise a few Soft Rock songs are also appropriate for Easy Listening.

My player is 30GB so space isn't an issue.

 

[firepoint525]

What is known as oldies, according to what I've read online, starts in 1955 with Bill Haley's "Rock Around The Clock".
What year is considered the "end" of the Oldies era? After doing research on songs I listened to on my (now defunct) local oldies station, the "youngest" material was 1972-ish.
Can this be considered correct?
On a related note: I consider the Disco era to begin in 1973 (with "Love's Theme" and "T.S.O.P.") and end in 1980, with a last gasp in 1981 with Stars On's "Beatles Medley".
PS: My oldies station here in Houston used to be KLDE 94.5 (later 107.5). It 's now Classic Hits KHTC K-Hits, though they still play oldies on their HD-2 channel.
Thanks in advance.

I would say that what we now call "oldies" would include everything from the beginning of rock and roll (Chuck Berry, Elvis, Little Richard, et al) up to at least 1975. I say 1975 because the last oldies station we had here in Nashville routinely played "Sister Golden Hair" by America, and "Listen to What the Man Said" by Wings, both from 1975. (They occasionally played "December 1963" by the Four Seasons, from 1976, but I believe that was because the Four Seasons were considered an "oldies" group.)

I would give disco the range of 1974 to about 1980. "Rock the Boat" by Hues Corporation was considered one of the first disco number one hits. And "Funkytown" by Lipps Inc. in 1980 was considered one of the last. ("Funkytown" had a 1979 copyright despite not becoming a hit until the summer of 1980, leading me to believe that either its release was delayed for some reason, or it was slow to become a hit. Either way, they almost waited too long.) I never really considered Stars on 45 to be a part of the disco scene, although they certainly put the Beatles to a disco beat. (Stars on 45 actually started the medley "mini-craze" of the early '80s, which led to an actual Beatles medley, a Beach Boys medley, an Elvis medley, and all the "Hooked on..." stuff.) Having said that, there were a number of hits from later in the '80s that certainly could have been considered "disco," like "Everything She Wants" by Wham, and almost anything by Rick Astley, or more precisely, almost anything written or produced by Stock, Aitken, Waterman, who produced most of Astley's first hits.

Classic rock certainly started with the British invasion, and ran through the late '80s. Grunge in the early '90s ended classic rock's domination. And yes, the time frame for "classic rock" definitely overlapped the "oldies" era.

 

[hornet61]

All three posts make some good points on the subjects chronology and breakdown of the categories within the music. For the sake of definition of "Oldies" format, the starting point could well be 1948-1954 era, probably the accepted starting point would be July 1955, when "Rock Around The Clock" hit #1 and the end of the "Oldies era" would be July 1972 when WCBS NY started broadcasting what became known as the "Oldies" format. By then Art Laboe In LA had popularized the term "Oldies But Goodies" for his Original Sound label compilations. This of course represents the original Oldies Era, only, as the three previous posts pointed out every 20 years creates a new set of Oldies ...................or, Classic Hits as they are called today.

The Rock N' Roll era certainly fits in there somewhere from 1940 - XXXX, I think Rock N' Roll evolved from big band swing, when in the late forties the small combo's became the norm and former bigbanders like Wynonnie Harris and others started referencing lyrics such "Rock you and Roll you all night Long", and then in 1956 in Lubbock Tx, a young man established the formula for what is still the basic standard for all Rock N Roll bands, three guitars and a drummer.

 

[thathoustonradiogeek]

Thank you all for your input.

 

[landtuna]

Classic rock certainly started with the British invasion, and ran through the late '80s.

I guess we could debate this for quite a while but I never considered the British Invasion (with possibly the exception of the Stones) beginning Classic Rock. The early Beatles stuff, along with groups like the Dave Clark 5, produced what I would consider pop music and not Classic Rock. Some of the protest stuff in the mid-60's and the late 60's music was definitely Classic Rock. The non-Disco music of the 70's was probably the best Classic Rock period.

 

[GridLeakBias]

The Rock N' Roll era certainly fits in there somewhere from 1940 - XXXX, I think Rock N' Roll evolved from big band swing, when in the late forties the small combo's became the norm and former bigbanders like Wynonnie Harris and others started referencing lyrics such "Rock you and Roll you all night Long", and then in 1956 in Lubbock Tx, a young man established the formula for what is still the basic standard for all Rock N Roll bands, three guitars and a drummer.

The term “Rock and roll” was introduced in the lyrics of many rhythm and blues records, as early as circa 1920, with black artists such as Wynonnie Harris (“All She Wants to do is Rock”), Amos Milburn, Roy Brown, Maxwell Davis, Paul Gayten, Jimmy Liggins, Joe Turner, Professor Longhair, Louis Jordan, and many, many others. The phrase "rocking and rolling", as secular black slang for dancing or sex, appeared on record for the first time in 1922 on Trixie Smith's "My Man Rocks Me With One Steady Roll". Three different songs with the title "Rock And Roll" were recorded in the late 1940s; one by Paul Bascomb in 1947, another by Wild Bill Moore in 1948, and yet another by Doles Dickens in 1949, and the phrase was in constant use in the lyrics of R&B songs of the time. The word "rock" had a long history in the English language as a metaphor for "to shake up, to disturb or to incite". In 1937, Chick Webb and Ella Fitzgerald recorded "Rock It for Me," which included the lyric, "So won't you satisfy my soul with the rock and roll." By the 1940s, the term was used as a double entendre, ostensibly referring to dancing, but with the subtextual meaning of sex, as in Roy Brown's "Good Rocking Tonight." The verb "roll" was a medieval metaphor which meant "having sex". Writers for hundreds of years have used the phrases "They had a roll in the hay" or "I rolled her in the clover”. One such record where the phrase was repeated throughout the song was "Rock And Roll Blues," recorded in 1949 by Erline "Rock And Roll" Harris. The phrase was also included in advertisements for the film Wabash Avenue, starring Betty Grable and Victor Mature.

That said, current music history credits Alan Freed with first using the phrase "rock and roll" to describe a mix of both "black" and "white" music played for a multi-racial audience. There is much debate as to what should be considered the first rock & roll record. One leading contender is "Rocket 88" by Jackie Brenston and his Delta Cats (in fact, Ike Turner and his band The Kings of Rhythm), recorded by Sam Phillips for Sun Records in 1951. Four years later, Bill Haley's "Rock Around the Clock" (1955) became the first rock and roll song to top Billboard magazine's main sales and airplay charts, and opened the door worldwide for this new wave of popular culture.

 

[landtuna]

GLB,

Do any of those old 1920's R'nR recordings still exist in listenable form? Do they sound more like the R&B we're used to or something never heard before?

I've heard what was described as early R'nR music from the very early 50's. Black singers sounding a lot like gospel groups but obviously with different lyrics. Didn't sound anything like the R'nR we heard later in that decade.

 

[thathoustonradiogeek]

Maybe this can shed some light?

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewCustomPage?name=pageSchoolOfRock_RootsBlues

 

[firepoint525]

Classic rock certainly started with the British invasion, and ran through the late '80s.

I guess we could debate this for quite a while but I never considered the British Invasion (with possibly the exception of the Stones) beginning Classic Rock. The early Beatles stuff, along with groups like the Dave Clark 5, produced what I would consider pop music and not Classic Rock. Some of the protest stuff in the mid-60's and the late 60's music was definitely Classic Rock. The non-Disco music of the 70's was probably the best Classic Rock period.

If it hadn't been for the British invasion, what we now call "rock & roll" would have died around 1960. (Yeah, it was "pop" but it laid the groundwork for what came after.) And "rock & roll" wouldn't have had any longer of a shelf life than, say, disco had! You know, 5-7 years or so. I consider most of the protest stuff more "folkish" in nature, but definitely agree that classic rock came into its own in the late '70s. I grew up in that era, and remember it well.

 

[firepoint525]

All three posts make some good points on the subjects chronology and breakdown of the categories within the music. For the sake of definition of "Oldies" format, the starting point could well be 1948-1954 era, probably the accepted starting point would be July 1955, when "Rock Around The Clock" hit #1 and the end of the "Oldies era" would be July 1972 when WCBS NY started broadcasting what became known as the "Oldies" format. By then Art Laboe In LA had popularized the term "Oldies But Goodies" for his Original Sound label compilations. This of course represents the original Oldies Era, only, as the three previous posts pointed out every 20 years creates a new set of Oldies ...................or, Classic Hits as they are called today.

If you draw the line at July, 1972, then you miss the situation just three months later, when Rick Nelson, Chuck Berry, and Elvis Presley were all in the top 10 simultaneously! And I'm sure that hadn't happened since at least the '50s! (Granted, Chuck stuck us with "My Ding-a-ling," but work with me here! ;D)

The oldies station here in Nashville not only played through 1975, they also played even more recent stuff by their core artists, and other stuff they apparently considered "format appropriate." I have already mentioned the Four Seasons, but they also played the Beach Boys' "Kokomo" (#1 in 1988!!!), Bob Seger's "Old Time Rock & Roll" (from 1978), and in what might have been head-scratching moves, they also played Gloria Gaynor's "I Will Survive" (#1 in 1979) and Kool & the Gang's "Celebration" (#1 in 1981). But they did not play other hits that sat on the charts at the same time as these. When they started carrying Tom Kent, we obviously heard more late '70s disco on that station, but that seemed to be limited to when he was on.

 

[landtuna]

If it hadn't been for the British invasion, what we now call "rock & roll" would have died around 1960.

I disagree. Although I am not quite as knowledgeable as some of you (either that or my memory is shot) I seem to remember that the "beat music" was still alive even though it was affected by the payola scandal and, as a result, the girl groups got more popular. Songs like "Palisades Park" by Freddie Canon come to mind ('60 or '61 I think).

The British Invasion definitely helped radio recover from payola and put new life, and artists, into pop music.

 

[thathoustonradiogeek]

Don't forget Motown (well, the girl group comment falls in there).

 

[GridLeakBias]

GLB,

Do any of those old 1920's R'nR recordings still exist in listenable form? Do they sound more like the R&B we're used to or something never heard before?

Going back to the twenties, we don’t find recordings in the R&R or R&B genres, as these two got their roots from early blues, jump, be-bop and swing catagories, and weren't catagorized as such until the late fifties.

The twenties recordings to which I referred are mainly in the Jazz category. The 40s tunes evolved from early jazz into jump (or be-bop) and then to R&R, while some remained as blues.

At one time I had links to some very early blues and jazz recordings (circa 1920, 1930), either at the Library Of Congress or the Smithsonian web sites, but I’ve lost the links. I’ll try to find them when I have time.

Meanwhile, here is a link to recordings from the 1920’s, mainly Old-Time Strings Bands, Ballads & Breakdowns, Early Blues & Gospel, some Early Jazz, Vintage Country Gospel, and Early Bluegrass, all of which contributed to early R&B and R&R.

http://www.juneberry78s.com/sounds/index.htm

I've heard what was described as early R'nR music from the very early 50's. Black singers sounding a lot like gospel groups but obviously with different lyrics. Didn't sound anything like the R'nR we heard later in that decade.

Descriptions of early R&R varies, due to the various catagories within, such as vocal stylings, instrumentation, and rhythm (or tempo).

I recommend listening to the following tunes (if you can find them) as a primer on the progression of early R&R, from 1950 through 1955. I consider these tunes as roots of how R&R evolved after 1955.

1950: Rollin' Stone - Muddy Waters; Teardrops From My Eyes - Ruth Brown.

1951: Sixty Minute Man – Dominoes; Rocket 88 - Jackie Brenston; Dust My Broom - Elmore James.

1952: Lawdy Miss Clawdy - Lloyd Price; Have Mercy Baby – Dominoes; One Mint Julep – Clovers.

1953: Money Honey – Drifters; Crying In The Chapel – Orioles; Gee – Crows; Honey Hush - Joe Turner;
Mama, He Treats Your Daughter Mean - Ruth Brown; Hound Dog - Willie Mae "Big Mama" Thornton; The Things That I Used To Do - Guitar Slim.

1954: Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley & His Comets; Shake, Rattle And Roll - Joe Turner; Earth Angel – Penguins; Sh-Boom – Chords; That's All Right - Elvis Presley; Pledging My Love - Johnny Ace; Goodnite Sweetheart Goodnite – Spaniels; I've Got A Woman - Ray Charles; Work With Me Annie - Royals / Midnighters.

1955: Tutti-Frutti - Little Richard; Maybellene - Chuck Berry; Bo Diddley - Bo Diddley; Why Do Fools Fall In Love – Teenagers; The Great Pretender – Platters; Ain't It A Shame - Fats Domino; Speedoo – Cadillacs; Story Untold – Nutmegs; My Babe - Little Walter.

 

[GridLeakBias]

Classic rock certainly started with the British invasion, and ran through the late '80s.

I guess we could debate this for quite a while but I never considered the British Invasion (with possibly the exception of the Stones) beginning Classic Rock. The early Beatles stuff, along with groups like the Dave Clark 5, produced what I would consider pop music and not Classic Rock. Some of the protest stuff in the mid-60's and the late 60's music was definitely Classic Rock. The non-Disco music of the 70's was probably the best Classic Rock period.

If it hadn't been for the British invasion, what we now call "rock & roll" would have died around 1960. (Yeah, it was "pop" but it laid the groundwork for what came after.) And "rock & roll" wouldn't have had any longer of a shelf life than, say, disco had! You know, 5-7 years or so. I consider most of the protest stuff more "folkish" in nature, but definitely agree that classic rock came into its own in the late '70s. I grew up in that era, and remember it well.

I find it amusing when I read statements such as this.

If we are to believe this, history started the day you were born, and didn't reach it's peak, as far as music is considered, until you reached your teens.

Sorry, but Rock & Roll music, with that name or any other, was more than twenty years old before you reached your teens. Rock and Roll was just coming into it's maturity in 1960, and it was nowhere near it's death throws, as you seem to place it.

 

[cyberdad]

Just one guy's taste, but I have two major oldies playlists on my Ipod. One runs from 1951-1969, with the heaviest concentration in the early 60s. The other runs 1955-1979 with the heaviest concentration is the mid to late 60s. A number of songs are common to both lists....each of which consists of about 1,000 titles. Among other things, I also have a playlist of "pre-beatles" pop and pop standards stuff that runs roughly from the late 40s to early 60s. About 400 titles here....a few of which are also common to one or both of the other playlists. (Examples of something on all three...."Blueberry Hill", "Who's Sorry Now", "Yesterday".)

 

[firepoint525]

Classic rock certainly started with the British invasion, and ran through the late '80s.

I guess we could debate this for quite a while but I never considered the British Invasion (with possibly the exception of the Stones) beginning Classic Rock. The early Beatles stuff, along with groups like the Dave Clark 5, produced what I would consider pop music and not Classic Rock. Some of the protest stuff in the mid-60's and the late 60's music was definitely Classic Rock. The non-Disco music of the 70's was probably the best Classic Rock period.

If it hadn't been for the British invasion, what we now call "rock & roll" would have died around 1960. (Yeah, it was "pop" but it laid the groundwork for what came after.) And "rock & roll" wouldn't have had any longer of a shelf life than, say, disco had! You know, 5-7 years or so. I consider most of the protest stuff more "folkish" in nature, but definitely agree that classic rock came into its own in the late '70s. I grew up in that era, and remember it well.

I find it amusing when I read statements such as this.

If we are to believe this, history started the day you were born, and didn't reach it's peak, as far as music is considered, until you reached your teens.

Sorry, but Rock & Roll music, with that name or any other, was more than twenty years old before you reached your teens. Rock and Roll was just coming into it's maturity in 1960, and it was nowhere near it's death throws, as you seem to place it.

I find it amusing when people reply to me without first READING what they are replying to! : Where did I say that rock & roll started with "Rock Around the Clock"? I've never said that, because I don't believe it myself!

It's interesting to note that there are those on this board who say that rock & roll ended with the British invasion, and that isn't true, either!

 

[GridLeakBias]

Classic rock certainly started with the British invasion, and ran through the late '80s.

I guess we could debate this for quite a while but I never considered the British Invasion (with possibly the exception of the Stones) beginning Classic Rock. The early Beatles stuff, along with groups like the Dave Clark 5, produced what I would consider pop music and not Classic Rock. Some of the protest stuff in the mid-60's and the late 60's music was definitely Classic Rock. The non-Disco music of the 70's was probably the best Classic Rock period.

If it hadn't been for the British invasion, what we now call "rock & roll" would have died around 1960. (Yeah, it was "pop" but it laid the groundwork for what came after.) And "rock & roll" wouldn't have had any longer of a shelf life than, say, disco had! You know, 5-7 years or so. I consider most of the protest stuff more "folkish" in nature, but definitely agree that classic rock came into its own in the late '70s. I grew up in that era, and remember it well.

I find it amusing when I read statements such as this.

If we are to believe this, history started the day you were born, and didn't reach it's peak, as far as music is considered, until you reached your teens.

Sorry, but Rock & Roll music, with that name or any other, was more than twenty years old before you reached your teens. Rock and Roll was just coming into it's maturity in 1960, and it was nowhere near it's death throws, as you seem to place it.

I find it amusing when people reply to me without first READING what they are replying to! : Where did I say that rock & roll started with "Rock Around the Clock"? I've never said that, because I don't believe it myself!

It's interesting to note that there are those on this board who say that rock & roll ended with the British invasion, and that isn't true, either!

Thank you, it seems I was a bit hasty with my conclusion. perhaps I read it too quickly. I apologize for my blunder.