KFI

[Mark Roberts]

The dynamics of the talk format as a whole intrigue me. Take a very blue market like Seattle.

[...]

The facts are, talk radio even in very blue markets is dominated by conservative hosts. And I have never been able to grasp why, for the most part, liberal hosts don't get traction. I know it's not because the talent doesn't exist. There's plenty of liberal entertainers in all media that are very successful. So it's either that these talents aren't being developed, or liberal leaning individuals simply don't like the format of commercial talk radio as it exists in current times. Either way, the "liberal media" cliche certainly doesn't apply to the talk format in the United States.

Commercial talk radio in Denver - a very "blue" city in a mostly "blue" metro - is exclusively that of right-wing voices - KLZ, KHOW (kind of), KNUS, KDFD, KOA, etc. I have several theories, and they are mine, about this:

• It's easier to get right-wingers stirred up (the handwaving-level label for this is "engagement") - though "progressives" are easier to get riled up than they used to be. But they tend to be younger, and probably think "AM radio" means "morning radio" - if they think about radio at all.
• There are plenty of syndicated hosts on the right-wing side, many fewer left-wing, thus cost-conscious stations can easily deploy right-wing hosts in a low-overhead business model.
• Moderate and liberal listeners abandoned commercial talk radio for public radio, both for content and for the overall tone. Think "tote bag". Moreover, the quality of programming and reporting on NPR and local member stations has steadily improved compared to 40 or even 30 years ago.
• Regional newspapers are gasping for breath. They often had set the agenda for broadcasters' coverage of local issues with an even-handed approach, but they're not nearly as robust as they were. No one much thinks about them any more. So cues come instead from national media, and they are fractured.
• Liberals and progressives tend to offer complex answers to controversial questions; conservatives have a simpler message of "don't change" and simpler messages can be communicated more clearly on radio - after all, radio engages only the sense of hearing. As well, certain conservatives have become willing to blatantly lie if it gets them an audience.
• The language that progressives use to communicate is unfamiliar and easily caricatured. Too many of them sound like a sociology department at a third-rate college. They don't try to persuade; they hector. Big turn-off even to those who might otherwise be sympathetic. Not good radio material except as a foil.

It's a discouraging landscape for those of us who prefer descriptive observation over basic agitation. The state of KOA is particularly sad. It ought to be more informative but they're taking the cheap and easy way out. I'll be in Houston in a couple of months; I imagine I'll feel more even more strongly about KTRH since I once worked there and knew what it was, internal faults notwithstanding.

 

[Gregg.]

I've also wondered why even quite liberal areas have only conservative talk stations. I agree with what Michael Hagerty and Mark Roberts said above. I have a few other thoughts...

* I think conservative listeners feel the world is moving too fast and they are losing their way of life. They want conservative media to rally around.

* I think liberal listeners don't feel this way and are likely listening to music stations, NPR or where available, All-News stations. They don't need to rally.

* I don't think NPR is "liberal" media. But since most public radio contributors are likely higher income and have a higher education level than average, NPR will report on things that conservative media won't touch. Doing a profile on a jazz musician, lack of rain in parts of Africa or crime on a Native American reservation isn't liberal. But I'd guess a conservative would hear that as liberal. In the last decade or so, many markets, even in conservative areas, now have an NPR station in their top ten. I think that's a counterweight to conservative talk.

* As far as I can tell, there are only three commercial progressive talk stations in large markets: KBLA 1580 Los Angeles, WCPT 820 Chicago and KTNF 950 Minneapolis. And there are only a few large market commercial stations where talk shows air that aren't all-conservative, all-the-time: KFI 640 LA, KIRO-FM 97.3 Seattle and KOA 850 Denver, although there may be others.

* There are only two nationally syndicated progressive talk shows, Stephanie Miller (9 to noon ET) and Thom Hartmann (noon to 3 ET). And they are likely only surviving thanks to also being carried by Sirius XM's Progress Channel 127.

 

[TheBigA]

Keep in mind that there is talk in formats other than talk radio. My best example is Charlamange Tha God. He is a very opinionated host who is not conservative, but doesn't necessarily follow the liberal talk points. He's an entertainer. So is Steve Harvey. Steve is on LA radio, but Charlamagne is not. So don't count out morning hosts on music stations when you consider talk show hosts. They are influential in the same way as traditional talk show hosts. Just that their presentation is different.

 

[henry]

That stopped being true with Millennials. They're actually getting less conservative as they age. This means that conservative talk won't automatically attract a younger audience if you move it to FM.

Hi. Millennial here.

Generally, people don't become "more conservative" with age, per se. Rather, the definitions of liberal vs. conservative shift significantly over the 50+ years an adult ages. The attributes that defined being moderately liberal in 1980 would be considered
moderately conservative today.

As an example, I would consider myself a supporter of LGBTQ+ equality (considered very liberal for 2004). But in 2024, that's a pretty centrist opinion. But as I age, I grow softly concerned about ideas I consider crazy (e.g., "Let's purge society of all gendered pronouns, and all use 'they/them'." A position I would oppose. And in the year 2044 might make me a conservative — while still being a supporter of LGBTQ+ equality, which was objectively liberal for 2004).

What broke in this case, is that conservatism took such extreme stances in recent years, that they dragged the definition of conservatism reverse a few decades. Making someone like me appear to be more liberal, even though my position hasn't changed.

KFI dumping Limbaugh a decade ago is one of the reasons I've stuck around and listened. General talk is much more palatable. But even then, I'm nearly 40. So, their audience is quite old.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

There's plenty of liberal entertainers in all media that are very successful. So it's either that these talents aren't being developed, or liberal leaning individuals simply don't like the format of commercial talk radio as it exists in current times.

In your continuing search for the correct answer, I highly recommend checking your assumptions.

 

[michael hagerty]

What broke in this case, is that conservatism took such extreme stances in recent years, that they dragged the definition of conservatism reverse a few decades. Making someone like me appear to be more liberal, even though my position hasn't changed.

Exactly. We're at a point where public health measures in a pandemic became a political divide.

I knew we were in trouble shortly before I got caught in the iHeart layoffs four years ago.

I was sitting at the producer's desk. The anchor was doing the 11:00 a.m. news during Limbaugh's show. A listener called, I picked up and got an earful about our "biased" news.

The specific complaint? The newscast featured a soundbite from a Democratic California Congressman and the anchor didn't immediately follow it up by laughing or calling the Congressman a liar.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Exactly. We're at a point where public health measures in a pandemic became a political divide.

I knew we were in trouble shortly before I got caught in the iHeart layoffs four years ago.

I was sitting at the producer's desk. The anchor was doing the 11:00 a.m. news during Limbaugh's show. A listener called, I picked up and got an earful about our "biased" news.

The specific complaint? The newscast featured a soundbite from a Democratic California Congressman and the anchor didn't immediately follow it up by laughing or calling the Congressman a liar.

The question is, why are you providing a liberal newscast to a conservative audience?

You are the career radio man, I am just a humble listener, so I shouldn't have to explain the basics of radio to you, but here goes:

Rule #1: Know Your Audience! Program to them.

The listener is right. If you are serving a conservative audience (as you know you are) and are only going to go with one soundbite from a legislator, why are you not going to a Republican one? That's who your audience wants to hear from.

Lemme guess though - you and the PD don't really like Rush, his audience in general, or conservative values, so for your three minute TOH newscast, you take it upon yourselves to counter-program mostly liberal views with the idea that you are providing overall station "balance". Not too shrewd.

 

[TheBigA]

There's plenty of liberal entertainers in all media that are very successful. So it's either that these talents aren't being developed, or liberal leaning individuals simply don't like the format of commercial talk radio as it exists in current times.

My thought about this is that radio may not be seen as the best outlet for an entertainer who has different viewpoints. So its not that they're not being developed, but they might discover a better or more lucrative way to get their talent to the public. There was a discussion here about Tucker Carlson going to talk radio after leaving Fox News. As you know, that wasn't the way he went. Sometimes there are better platforms where one might have more independence. From what I can see, broadcast radio isn't looking for non-conservative talk show hosts. That's just the reality of the situation.

 

[michael hagerty]

The question is, why are you providing a liberal newscast to a conservative audience?

We weren't providing a liberal newscast. We were providing a FACTUAL newscast. The Congressman for that district happened to be a Democrat, but represents all the people of the district.

What was sad was that it wasn't an especially controversial story or soundbite. The listener had simply been conditioned by Rush and others to believe that soundbites from Democrats should be followed by scorn and derision.

 

[101.9 La Kalle]

We weren't providing a liberal newscast. We were providing a FACTUAL newscast.

90% of the time, it's the same thing, just without the attitude shoved in your face.

 

[PTBoardOp93]

That article specifically deals with "the West" meaning CA, OR and WA. It can't be generalized for anything between Idaho and Georgia.

To be clear, "The West" is being used there with the global meaning -- i.e. the opposite of the Soviet bloc. The writer is based in London, and the article was inspired by the collapse of the Conservative Party in Britain, following the resignation of the Liz Truss ministry.

Generally, people don't become "more conservative" with age, per se. Rather, the definitions of liberal vs. conservative shift significantly over the 50+ years an adult ages. The attributes that defined being moderately liberal in 1980 would be considered
moderately conservative today.

I agree with this in spirit. I would add that the issues of the day change over time. I'm about your age. The first POTUS election after I turned 18 was '04, and I voted straight D, because I was afraid of a draft for the Iraq war. Being a wimpy kid and turning in his selective service card as Senators are on Meet the Press talking about the possibility of ending the all volunteer Army will shape your world view. Obviously, all these years later that issue is neither relevant to me personally, nor to the country as a whole.

 

[TheBigA]

Rule #1: Know Your Audience! Program to them.

I agree with this. I have never been hired for my personal taste in music. No one cares what I like or what I listen to at home. Which, by the way, is a good thing, because what I listen to at home wouldn't be a good radio format. I tried it when I was in college, and that was one of the things I learned. I was never going to get a job forcing my personal taste on someone else. I'm not a critic, I'm not a musicologist, and I'm not here to tell you what to like. That's why I've been able to work in lots of formats, from rock to classical to pop to country. It's all music to me.

 

[michael hagerty]

I agree with this. I have never been hired for my personal taste in music. No one cares what I like or what I listen to at home. Which, by the way, is a good thing, because what I listen to at home wouldn't be a good radio format. I tried it when I was in college, and that was one of the things I learned. I was never going to get a job forcing my personal taste on someone else. I'm not a critic, I'm not a musicologist, and I'm not here to tell you what to like. That's why I've been able to work in lots of formats, from rock to classical to pop to country. It's all music to me.

It's the only right way to do music.

It's a very wrong way to do news.

 

[TheBigA]

It's the only right way to do music.

It's a very wrong way to do news.

I've done news too, and I approach news the same way. It's not about me or my opinion. It's about the facts and the story. Even if it ends up different from what I might want or expect.

 

[hotpatrick2004]

Question??? Let's say air america back in the day ran there operation well which we know they did not. For when they went on the air in la on 1150 a few days later it was foreign language I believe for not paying the lease or bill or something like that but it was taken care of and the air america feed was back in a few days.

Would they still be around ya think? Even though I don't agree w her I thought Stephanie miller was funny al franken not so much. Thank you and I will take my answer off the air 😂😂😂

 

[TheBigA]

Would they still be around ya think?

I think if you read our previous comments of why conservative works (consensus) and why liberal doesn't (diverse), you get your answer. There's no market for it, there's no demand for it, and there's no money for it.

The second half of this is that the because the audience for conservative talk is aging, there's a point where it too will go away. This is not to say that there's not a young audience for conservative talk. There is, but not in real time on AM radio.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Question??? Let's say air america back in the day ran there operation well which we know they did not. For when they went on the air in la on 1150 a few days later it was foreign language I believe for not paying the lease or bill or something like that but it was taken care of and the air america feed was back in a few days.

Would they still be around ya think? Even though I don't agree w her I thought Stephanie miller was funny al franken not so much. Thank you and I will take my answer off the air 😂😂😂

Stephanie Miller was the only one who even came close to having a listenable show. Remember that for several years she was on KABC weeknights at 7:00 pm right after Larry Elder's show (talk about an abrupt changeover!), so unlike many of the other Air America hosts, she actually had major market experience and it showed.

She mostly kept it fast moving, humerous and topical in an attempt to keep it first entertaining and then political. Unfortunately some of the humor was often low-grade and juvenile, and there are only so many Dick Cheney jokes to go around before they all become stale, so ultimately her show failed too, but I agree, she was always the most talented of the bunch.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

The second half of this is that the because the audience for conservative is aging, there's a point where it too will go away

They have been saying this for literally decades. In which one will it finally come true?

 

[TheBigA]

They have been saying this for literally decades. In which one will it finally come true?

I think there's 10 years left in the format. Who dies first? The hosts or the audience?

I just don't see anyone under 50 listening to AM talk radio in real time.

 

[hotpatrick2004]

Stephanie Miller was the only one who even came close to having a listenable show. Remember that for several years she was on KABC weeknights at 7:00 pm right after Larry Elder's show (talk about an abrupt changeover!), so unlike many of the other Air America hosts, she actually had major market experience and it showed.

She mostly kept it fast moving, humerous and topical in an attempt to keep it first entertaining and then political. Unfortunately some of the humor was often low-grade and juvenile, and there are only so many Dick Cheney jokes to go around before they all become stale, so ultimately her show failed too, but I agree, she was always the most talented of the bunch.

Kinda like Stephen Colbert on the late show. His trump schtick gets old really quick and they aren't funny. SNL has done great political humor over the yrs on both sides. Stephen Colbert not so.much. it's ashame Neil Patrick Harris wasn't Lettermen's successor but he didn't want it.

Stephanie miller was pretty good at political humor but the dick Cheney stuff got old. I bet she has a field day w trump but I am sure that gets old to. I loved Mr Kabc aka Mark on Kabc...Funny show.