Is there any chance that Alpha Media updates its signals to HD Radio?

[Radiopaw]

Hey all,

Alpha is still operating analog FM, and the reduction in quality is quite noticeable compared to most of its peers.

What is the odds or likelihood they update their signal to HD?

Additionally, HD Radio can improve signal correct?

Alpha Media’s Stations by market rating:

KEZR 106.5
KBAY 94.5/92.1 (KKDV)
KUIC 95.3
KKIQ 101.7 (interesting this station covers comfortably more of the bay then KUIC but has less rating.)

 

[speer360]

I would say no.

They have HD only where the stations they acquire had it already or need it to run a FM translator via HD multi-casting.

 

[Kelly A]

Unless they're adding ancillary channels (HD2, 3, etc.) there's zero financial upside to adding HD. In fact, given the HD-capable transmitter will cost a station about 50% more than analog only? I'd say it's a money loser.

 

[TheBigA]

I know some may not know that Alpha was one of the many radio companies that filed for bankruptcy in the last few years. The focus is usually on the big two. But Alpha found itself in the same boat during the pandemic:

Alpha Media Exits Chapter 11 Bankruptcy – RadioInsight

After receiving FCC approval on Tuesday (see below), Alpha Media has announced it has completed its exit from Chapter 11 bankruptcy restructuring. Alpha Media (the “Company”) today announced that it successfully completed its financial restructuring and emerged from Chapter 11 with a...

radioinsight.com

So that means they're watching their expenses, and HD radio is basically an expense. For some it's an option for companies to offer less commercial formats outside of the constraints of PPM. But I don't see Alpha having that interest.

 

[semoochie]

In Portland, Alpha was leasing 96.3 for CHR/Rhythmic We 96.3. When 96.3 was sold to a third party, they added HD to KINK, placed We on its HD and added a translator.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Hey all,

Alpha is still operating analog FM, and the reduction in quality is quite noticeable compared to most of its peers.

Actually, every FM station is still analog. HD is an add-on. There are no digital-only FM stations in the United States yet.

What is the odds or likelihood they update their signal to HD?

If I were an active broadcaster today, my first question upon being presented with a pitch to buy new equipment to do something new would be this: Can I make money from it?

How does an HD-1 simulcast answer that question in the affirmative (moreover, how could you tell)? How have HD-{2,3,4} channels answered that question in the affirmative?

 

[DavidEduardo]

How does an HD-1 simulcast answer that question in the affirmative (moreover, how could you tell)? How have HD-{2,3,4} channels answered that question in the affirmative?

The "profitable" HD-2,3,4 channels are either ones that allow for a translator (which can be quite profitable even in markets as big as Austin, TC and Albuquerque) or rented to a nichecaster, such as religious or foreign language operators.

I don't think that the HD-1 channel addition has benefited any station so far.

 

[Radiopaw]

The "profitable" HD-2,3,4 channels are either ones that allow for a translator (which can be quite profitable even in markets as big as Austin, TC and Albuquerque) or rented to a nichecaster, such as religious or foreign language operators.

I don't think that the HD-1 channel addition has benefited any station so far.

“No more static, pops, crackles, fades...and no monthly payments
The digital signal is less vulnerable to reception problems. The radio tuner's digital processors eliminate the static, pops, hisses, and fades caused by interference”

Information about HDR from the company says things such as this. Is this not true? Would this not help ratings for a station trying to cover more of the SF market?

Is there studies that a station without the extra audio quality doesn’t lead to worse user retention? seeing that AM is dying for similar reasons

 

[TheBigA]

Information about HDR from the company says things such as this. Is this not true? Would this not help ratings for a station trying to cover more of the SF market?

There is nothing in HD radio that improves coverage. In fact the FCC keeps the power of HD channels to around 10% of the station's primary carrier. So it wouldn't help the station cover the market.

FCC Gets Loud And Clear Message From Radio: More Power For HD Stations Is Needed.

Broadcasters are giving full-throated support to a proposal under consideration at the Federal Communications Commission that would give digital FM stations the ability to increase their power. “Before consumers fully

www.insideradio.com

 

[Theater of My Mind]

The digital signal is less vulnerable to reception problems.

This is only true if you're in the strongest signal strength area. The HD signal does not carry as far as the analog, and the flipping back-and-forth between HD1 and analog mode in the car can be extremely annoying, and a definite tuneout when it starts happening.

 

[fybush]

There is nothing in HD radio that improves coverage. In fact the FCC keeps the power of HD channels to around 10% of the station's primary carrier. So it wouldn't help the station cover the market.

Overall coverage, maybe not, but at -10 dBc (the 10% of analog power level that is the maximum the FCC allows), current transmitters and encoders put out a signal that's very usable out to any given station's protected analog contour. The original -20 (1%) level was indeed way too low, but -10 tracks very closely to useful analog coverage.

A lot of the complaints of HD fading out before analog or ping-ponging back and forth were real problems in earlier generations of HD equipment, but they are problems that have been largely solved by higher power levels and better encoding. I suspect many who still repeat those complaints haven't driven around a major market using newer generations of transmission.

And in areas like SF or Seattle that are prone to multipath, I've found that a -10 HD signal can be much more robust in the car than analog. I had that very experience today - driving into NYC along the Palisades, WFUV in analog was a multipath mess, but it quickly locked into HD and stayed locked, and became a much better listening experience heading to the city.

With the sheer number of HD tuners that have been placed in dashboards in the last 15 years (heck, there's one in my wife's janky 2013 Prius that's already at its end of life), I suspect there are a fair number of listeners out there benefiting from nice clean HD reception without all the picket-fencing.... and for them it's just "radio" and they may not even know they're hearing HD.

(Edited to add: it's easy to forget that the first generation of HD equipment, all those awful BE boxes, Nautel's early stuff, and so on, is already going on 20 years old. In large and medium markets, that means most of it has already gone end of life and been replaced by much better, newer rigs. Nobody builds space-combined sites anymore, or worries about high- or low-level combining or heat dissipation. You buy one integrated box from Gates or Nautel with one output to the antenna, and it just runs. The difference between HD transmission technology in 2003 and 2023 is even more dramatic than all the ways FM improved from the 1960s into the 1980s.)

Any of the bigger players, whether it's iHeart or Audacy or Cumulus or public radio*, uses -10 dBc HD as a standard part of any new build or upgrade. I can't think of the last time I saw a large-market station do a build without current HD.)

((*yes, Paul, we know your particular NPR station will never...))

 

[Theater of My Mind]

I've found that a -10 HD signal can be much more robust in the car than analog. I had that very experience today - driving into NYC along the Palisades, WFUV in analog was a multipath mess, but it quickly locked into HD and stayed locked, and became a much better listening experience heading to the city.

That's interesting, because that is precisely the area where I find WFUV unlistenable due to the ping ponging effect between analog and HD -- unless you were just driving down the Palisades Parkway from the north, then over the George Washington Bridge before you reached the more populated NJ suburbs. There aren't really many buildings to get in the way of the signal up there.

I've found anything south of Fort Lee is a total writeoff for HD reception of that station, even if you are on top of the Palisades. In fact, reception of WFUV throughout most of the NJ suburbs is awful, and HD is no help, even less then five miles from the tower.

 

[fybush]

That's interesting, because that is precisely the area where I find WFUV unlistenable due to the ping ponging effect between analog and HD -- unless you were just driving down the Palisades Parkway from the north, then over the George Washington Bridge before you reached the more populated NJ suburbs. There aren't really many buildings to get in the way of the signal up there.

I've found anything south of Fort Lee is a total writeoff for HD reception of that station, even if you are on top of the Palisades. In fact, reception of WFUV throughout most of the NJ suburbs is awful, and HD is no help, even less then five miles from the tower.

I come down from my cousin's place in Montebello (where I'm sitting right now), Thruway to the Palisades Parkway over the GWB to my super-seekrit guaranteed free parking near my daughter's dorm room in Harlem.

So, yes, I'm in the more advantageous part of WFUV's coverage.

There's nothing HD can do to overcome the bigger problems WFUV has to the south and southwest with its DA pattern, terrain, protections to WBJB and WHYY, and so on. It's locked in with bad spacing and can never be a full-metro signal, analog or digital.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

I come down from my cousin's place in Montebello (where I'm sitting right now), Thruway to the Palisades Parkway over the GWB to my super-seekrit guaranteed free parking near my daughter's dorm room in Harlem.

If you want to hear for yourself, take a quick detour to the south once you cross back over the GWB on your way home. I'm sure you are already very familiar with the routes down towards the Meadowlands AM sites. No need to go farther than a couple miles south while listening to 90.7 HD-1. Then, swing back up to the towns along top of the Palisades where the FM signal *should* carry well, and head back north from there to catch the Palisades Parkway home at Fort Lee.

I wonder if you'll still maintain that the HD signal can be much more robust in the car than analog after that. Consider it the don't-punch-out-WFUV challenge!

 

[dxsphere]

In Portland, Alpha was leasing 96.3 for CHR/Rhythmic We 96.3. When 96.3 was sold to a third party, they added HD to KINK, placed We on its HD and added a translator.

Not quite - KINK's HD signal and 102.9 translator were already there prior to the sale, simulcasting KXTG 750. Once 96.3 was sold, Alpha broke the simulcast and flipped the HD2 channel and translator to We 102.9, while 750 dropped any mention of 102.9 and continued with its sports format.

I first received KINK-HD and 102.9 inside my Portland hotel room back in 2018, the year before 96.3 was sold. Digital Notification filed by KINK dates to 2014.

 

[Radiopaw]

I come down from my cousin's place in Montebello (where I'm sitting right now), Thruway to the Palisades Parkway over the GWB to my super-seekrit guaranteed free parking near my daughter's dorm room in Harlem.

So, yes, I'm in the more advantageous part of WFUV's coverage.

There's nothing HD can do to overcome the bigger problems WFUV has to the south and southwest with its DA pattern, terrain, protections to WBJB and WHYY, and so on. It's locked in with bad spacing and can never be a full-metro signal, analog or digital.

In your opinion, as one of the people who has more knowledge of radio then most people on this forum and in general, would HD do anything advantageous for Alpha's largest signals? (KBAY, KEZR, KKIQ)

 

[fybush]

In your opinion, as one of the people who has more knowledge of radio then most people on this forum and in general, would HD do anything advantageous for Alpha's largest signals? (KBAY, KEZR, KKIQ)

The South Bay doesn't have quite the same terrain issues, so the benefits of reduced multipath won't be as large as they are in San Francisco and Oakland.

The bigger problem for a company like Alpha is simply cost. To do HD right on a high power FM isn't cheap - it's a more expensive transmitter, it's likely a new antenna and often a new STL path. It could easily be well into six figures to build out, and for a cash-strapped Alpha the money likely just isn't there.

 

[DaveBayArea]

The South Bay doesn't have quite the same terrain issues, so the benefits of reduced multipath won't be as large as they are in San Francisco and Oakland.

Another thing that I've noticed - overall power seems to make a difference. This is anecdotal, and doesn't make sense in a lot of ways, but when a 50,000-watt station runs 10 percent HD the analog-to-digital reception ratio seems to favor the digital compared to when a 2,000-watt station runs 10 percent HD. In Alpha's case it could mean that KKIQ and KUIC (both class-A's) wouldn't experience much of a difference.

Alpha's fundamental problem isn't HD or no HD. It's program source & audio chain. I was in the Oakland hills a few weeks ago and in that rare spot where you can get both 92.1 and 94.5. An A/B check revealed that they're not paying attention at all to processing and/or they're delivering a low-bandwidth stream to 92.1. The music quality varies from song to song, indicating they might be pulling some cuts from Spotify or youtube rips or ??? Just because it sounds good on your earbuds doesn't mean it's going to sound good on radio.

HD could sound good if there's only an HD-1 channel at 96k - no worries about pre-emphasis, no clipping, no real need to sound "loud" because there's no noise to overcome. But the emphasis has been on making the HD-1 and the analog sound the same so the transition isn't noticeable. So we get FM-processed audio on HD with maybe a bit more open pre-emphasis curve & less clipping. The difference is definitely not as drastic as it could be.

Dave B.

 

[Weiserguy]

Another thing that I've noticed - overall power seems to make a difference. This is anecdotal, and doesn't make sense in a lot of ways, but when a 50,000-watt station runs 10 percent HD the analog-to-digital reception ratio seems to favor the digital compared to when a 2,000-watt station runs 10 percent HD. In Alpha's case it could mean that KKIQ and KUIC (both class-A's) wouldn't experience much of a difference.

Alpha's fundamental problem isn't HD or no HD. It's program source & audio chain. I was in the Oakland hills a few weeks ago and in that rare spot where you can get both 92.1 and 92.3. An A/B check revealed that they're not paying attention at all to processing and/or they're delivering a low-bandwidth stream to 92.1. The music quality varies from song to song, indicating they might be pulling some cuts from Spotify or youtube rips or ??? Just because it sounds good on your earbuds doesn't mean it's going to sound good on radio.

HD could sound good if there's only an HD-1 channel at 96k - no worries about pre-emphasis, no clipping, no real need to sound "loud" because there's no noise to overcome. But the emphasis has been on making the HD-1 and the analog sound the same so the transition isn't noticeable. So we get FM-processed audio on HD with maybe a bit more open pre-emphasis curve & less clipping. The difference is definitely not as drastic as it could be.

Dave B.

Dave, why would you A/B 92.1 and 92.3? (Other than them being first adjacents)? They're completely different stations, different owners, different programming. 92.1 is KKDV, Alpha's Walnut Creek translator for KBAY's country music format. 92.3 is KSJO, airing a Punjabi Indian format. Totally unrelated. Am I missing something? Maybe you meant 92.1 and 94.5? Or if you really meant KKIQ and KUIC, those are 101.7 and 95.3.

I'm sooo confoosed...

 

[TheBigA]

The music quality varies from song to song, indicating they might be pulling some cuts from Spotify or youtube rips or ???

I don't think that's possible. Radio stations get digital music services provided directly from the labels. How they save and process that music locally might vary. But a radio station doesn't have to get a song from Spotify or YouTube. Seems to me there is no download function on YouTube.