Wall St Journal radio network gone at end of year

[FredLeonard]

For the record, in the past decade I also worked for a station that used cart machines, even reel to reel occasionally and eschewed any technology not in use in the 60s. Why? The owner was cheap and the stuff still worked. Why spend money on computers if you don't have to. And the program director was resistant to anything he hadn't used at his high school station. I've heard stories of other stations that still hold on to old stuff.

And Big A is correct: If it's on a talk station, listeners and advertisers consider the ad part of the package (and listeners may see the ad as a tacit endorsement of the "controversial" hosts a station carries and their comments).

 

[DavidEduardo]

Lot of assumptions there. I never said it was a "station."

That error of omission is critical. As another poster mentions, there are cases where paper copy can still be used, such as tags for live traffic and weather reports coming from facilities where one person does such inserts for multiple stations. In those cases, most operations were going all digital in the early 2000's but paper was still used well into the new Millenium.

But in such cases, the traffic instructions are not part of the carrying radio station's work. And an outside provider may or may not even know what the show the report is running in is all about.

 

[DavidEduardo]

For the record, in the past decade I also worked for a station that used cart machines, even reel to reel occasionally and eschewed any technology not in use in the 60s. Why? The owner was cheap and the stuff still worked.

That's rather amazing since carts have not been manufactured for longer than that, and even the special lubricated tape that the cart's mobius loop requires was long ago discontinued.

Why spend money on computers if you don't have to.

If you are in a market or a format that does not do any billing that requires exact time affidavits, billing with a detail of copy run for each spot, has no commercials, etc., etc. then I suppose you can get away with a manual system for scheduling. Otherwise, it's inefficient and costly to do manual scheduling of commercials and execution of formats.

And the program director was resistant to anything he hadn't used at his high school station. I've heard stories of other stations that still hold on to old stuff.

And people wonder why those stations are falling behind in other areas, too.

And Big A is correct: If it's on a talk station, listeners and advertisers consider the ad part of the package (and listeners may see the ad as a tacit endorsement of the "controversial" hosts a station carries and their comments).

The issue is when the other content comes from an outside provider such as a weather or traffic service that includes short liners in the reports.

 

[TheBigA]

But in such cases, the traffic instructions are not part of the carrying radio station's work. And an outside provider may or may not even know what the show the report is running in is all about.

Exactly. Which is why I've directed several air talents here to check with their traffic department. That kind of information isn't conveyed to the control room. The one person who definitely knows is the one who signs the barter contract or the ad contract. Because that's where the instructions are given.

 

[Ravens]

So I dug up our instructions for the barter spots. Only two advertisers had "do not runs". One being some gold scam place and one being Ford. This idea that "do not runs" are destroying even non-controversial programming is ridiculous.

On a side note, these "do not runs" were for Westwood One and did not include Westwood One hosts. Interesting.

 

[Ravens]

Gee, now he's getting personal.

Says the guy who calls people liars, then refuses to apologize when proven wrong.

It's been well established here that your experience in radio is far in the past. There's nothing wrong with that, except that you pretend you know what's going on in the business right now. It's not an insult. It's fact.

 

[TheBigA]

On a side note, these "do not runs" were for Westwood One and did not include Westwood One hosts. Interesting.

The ones I see also mention Savage Nation, which is technically a WW1 show.

 

[L Chanon Gade]

That's rather amazing since carts have not been manufactured for longer than that, and even the special lubricated tape that the cart's mobius loop requires was long ago discontinued.

You might fond this interesting: http://criticaldistance.blogspot.com/2012/06/carts-at-wplj-fm.html

I know these were still on-air as of 2002 and they have an entire wall of them. The vid is dated 6/2012 and Shannon was still there -today he is gone so the old tech may be too. WINS had carts at least till they moved in with WCBS-a at Hudson St.

Even in modern facilities it is not uncommon to see old stuff still around in some production room or at the transmitter. Over at NBC they still have fresnels and scoops, some with the -old- "NBC" logo stenciled on them. Still used too.

Chan/NYC






Chan?NYC

 

[Ravens]

The ones I see also mention Savage Nation, which is technically a WW1 show.

One of ours had Savage listed. Forgot that's where he was now.

But it's still not very many advertisers and it's hardly enough to bring down WSJ radio, which is the point.

 

[TheBigA]

But it's still not very many advertisers and it's hardly enough to bring down WSJ radio, which is the point.

If you combine it with several other factors, like declining ratings for AM talk stations, declining advertising for business news, and the desire by WSJ to have more control over their content, you come up with enough to close the radio service. Which is what they've decided to do. Regardless of the opinions of various online bloggers.

 

[FredLeonard]

It's been well established here that your experience in radio is far in the past. There's nothing wrong with that, except that you pretend you know what's going on in the business right now. It's not an insult. It's fact.

Well established? Another lie. It is in the past but not far. But in the past because I became unwilling to spend more than half my waking life around people like you and doing work in an industry in which I could no longer take any pride.

And what makes you an expert? Six weeks in some proprietary broadcasting school and then board oping? I'm still waiting for you to post something that is not a repetition of the standard industry line.

 

[TheBigA]

I became unwilling to spend more than half my waking life around people like you and doing work in an industry in which I could no longer take any pride.

No one asks you to take pride in the "industry." They ask you to take pride in your work. That's all you can be responsible for. Once you can't take pride in your work, I agree it's time to do something else. I don't represent "the industry." Just myself. And I still have great pride in what I do, and I'm fortunate that no one can tell me to lower my standards.

 

[Ravens]

If you combine it with several other factors, like declining ratings for AM talk stations, declining advertising for business news, and the desire by WSJ to have more control over their content, you come up with enough to close the radio service. Which is what they've decided to do. Regardless of the opinions of various online bloggers.

There are a million reasons spoken word formats on AM aren't doing well. Something Rush Limbaugh said 2 years ago is so far down the list it's not even worth discussing. Fluorescent lights interfering with the AM band is higher up the list than Rush.

 

[TheBigA]

There are a million reasons spoken word formats on AM aren't doing well. Something Rush Limbaugh said 2 years ago is so far down the list it's not even worth discussing. Fluorescent lights interfering with the AM band is higher up the list than Rush.

I think you're focusing your attention too much on something a few consultants have said. The Rush incident had an impact, and it's still having an impact. As I said, his name is still singled out in DNBs. That's why people mention it. But it's not the only factor in this situation, nor in the overall problem with AM talk.

 

[Ravens]

And what makes you an expert? Six weeks in some proprietary broadcasting school and then board oping? I'm still waiting for you to post something that is not a repetition of the standard industry line.

Who said I was an expert? I didn't even go to a "broadcasting" school. I went to a regular college and do a moderately successful morning show. That doesn't make me an "expert". That's just my experience, and other may have different experiences. I've never worked for one of the big conglomerates. I just don't irrationally despise them.

The "industry line" is set by people who know more than I know, and certainly more than you know. The difference between you and I is that I don't think I know everything.

 

[FredLeonard]

The "industry line" is set by people who know more than I know, and certainly more than you know. The difference between you and I is that I don't think I know everything.

The industry line is set by people with something to sell or an ax to grind.

"The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing." - Socrates.
Radio's problem is all these people who think they know something, that there is some winning formula. Radio is a crap shoot.

And it's "between you and me," not "you and I."

 

[Ravens]

The industry line is set by people with something to sell or an ax to grind.

"The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing." - Socrates.
Radio's problem is all these people who think they know something, that there is some winning formula. Radio is a crap shoot.

And it's "between you and me," not "you and I."

I agree with the first part. At least the "something to sell" part.

I also know those people know more than any of us here.

Don't agree that there is "no" winning formula, though. Obviously there is. And there are things that don't work. You'd be well served following your own Socrates quote.

 

[umfan]

"You'd be well served following your own Socrates quote."

+1

 

[FredLeonard]

I agree with the first part. At least the "something to sell" part.

I also know those people know more than any of us here.

Don't agree that there is "no" winning formula, though. Obviously there is. And there are things that don't work. You'd be well served following your own Socrates quote.

Sometimes stuff works. Sometimes not. No formula. You throw the dice. Sometimes you get luck. Sometimes not. Radio is one of those places were people keep taking the same action and getting a different outcome. Usually that outcome is repeating what worked before only this time it doesn't. Consultants are people who had one success and keep getting hired while never repeating it. In baseball, you have to get three successes out of 10 attempts to be considered successful. In radio, you only need one out any number of attempts.

What is this winning formula and who has applied it (and when)?

 

[Ravens]

Sometimes stuff works. Sometimes not. No formula. You throw the dice. Sometimes you get luck. Sometimes not. Radio is one of those places were people keep taking the same action and getting a different outcome. Usually that outcome is repeating what worked before only this time it doesn't. Consultants are people who had one success and keep getting hired while never repeating it. In baseball, you have to get three successes out of 10 attempts to be considered successful. In radio, you only need one out any number of attempts.

What is this winning formula and who has applied it (and when)?

I don't disagree with any of that. But most of us couldn't even hit 1 out of 10 at the big league level, and there is a reason even the guys that hit .350 have coaches. You certainly won't find me on a Yankees message board criticizing Derek Jeter's swing.

I also agree with you that a lot of these consultants are hacks.