This is why stations should kill oldies

[amfmsw]

I've debated with some great minds here, and some brick walls as well. You all know who they are, the ones who keep saying "Oldies are dead" , Nobody wants them. We're too old.

I assert that a GOOD consultant should educate owners, and work with them on agencies for revenue. Stations that cater to a boomer enjoy great numbers, in listenership and revenue...if done right.

Naysayers, please read and tell me where I'm wrong.

http://www.rab.com/public/rst/rst_new/rstarticle.cfm?id=1266&type=article1

 

[FredRichards]

As an oldie, (turned 54 a week ago), I only listen to oldies, except when I'm in the car and have the need for news/traffic.

If it's not via radio, then it's either channel 5, 6, or 7 on XM in the wife's car, or at home in my office off my automation.

If an advertiser wants to reach my wife or I, they better be buying time on oldies stations.

 

[DavidEduardo]

If an advertiser wants to reach my wife or I, they better be buying time on oldies stations.

Next year, nearly no advertiser who uses radio will want to reach you.

 

[yorkie9]

Next year, nearly no advertiser who uses radio will want to reach you.

Advertisers just don't smell the money. Plenty of people "our age" want to listen to the oldies and have cash - not just credit cards! I too bought XM primarily for the DECADES channels because we're ignored in Nashville. The oldies channel flipped to classic rock (and it's horrible) and the JACK station is geared to the younger demo.

But, I agree - the overwhelming attitude is that oldies is the kiss of death. Killing off the name "oldies" is a good start, but it's not enough.

 

[fang39]

But, I agree - the overwhelming attitude is that oldies is the kiss of death. Killing off the name "oldies" is a good start, but it's not enough.

That's also the reason GM did away with the "Oldsmobile." Isn't that ridiculous? Next thing you know, they'll try to petition having the word "old" removed from the dictionary!

 

[DavidEduardo]

Advertisers just don't smell the money. Plenty of people "our age" want to listen to the oldies and have cash - not just credit cards! I too bought XM primarily for the DECADES channels because we're ignored in Nashville. The oldies channel flipped to classic rock (and it's horrible) and the JACK station is geared to the younger demo.

As I have explained before, advertisers look for return on investment for advertising. If it costs more to create a sale than the profit on the sale, then particular groups are not targeted. Older consumers have money, but it taks more advertising to sway them than some other groups... so there is essentially no agency.driven advertising on radio for 55+.

And, in most markets, oldies is used by only about 10% of 55+ listeners at any given time. Much bigger is news, talk, sports, AC, country (in much of the US), classic rock and certain ethnic formats.

 

[yorkie9]

Advertisers just don't smell the money. Plenty of people "our age" want to listen to the oldies and have cash - not just credit cards! I too bought XM primarily for the DECADES channels because we're ignored in Nashville. The oldies channel flipped to classic rock (and it's horrible) and the JACK station is geared to the younger demo.

As I have explained before, advertisers look for return on investment for advertising. If it costs more to create a sale than the profit on the sale, then particular groups are not targeted. Older consumers have money, but it taks more advertising to sway them than some other groups... so there is essentially no agency.driven advertising on radio for 55+.

And, in most markets, oldies is used by only about 10% of 55+ listeners at any given time. Much bigger is news, talk, sports, AC, country (in much of the US), classic rock and certain ethnic formats.

Excellent points.

I think most people in the "oldies demo" also don't want to typecast themselves as oldies listeners! My XM radio is flipped off regularly in favor of 2 local country stations. You can only hear "Crystal Blue Persuasion" so many times before the gag reflex kicks in. Like Mike Bohan once said on WSIX, they aren't making any new oldies songs!

 

[semoochie]

I find it hard to believe that more people over 55 prefer Classic Rock to Oldies! It goes against that whole business about relating more to music that was popular during one's teen years. Out of curiosity, where does Standards fit in for over 55s?

 

[DavidEduardo]

I find it hard to believe that more people over 55 prefer Classic Rock to Oldies! It goes against that whole business about relating more to music that was popular during one's teen years. Out of curiosity, where does Standards fit in for over 55s?

I did not say that more people over 55 listen to classic rock than to oldies... I said that only about 10% at any time are listening to oldies. The biggest share goes to talk, in fact.

In LA, talk and sports talk and all news get about 30 shares in 55+. Smooth jazz gets higher shares than oldies, which has just under 6% of listening. Spanish language formats have about a 15 share. AC has about a 5 share, country a 3, and the rest of the shares are divided among a bunch of low share stations including about 4 shares for Jack and classic rock.

There is no significant standards station in most markets, but the audience is nearly 0 under age 65, so they do just horribly in 55-64.

I know LA is not typical as it is 41% Hispanic, but that gives you an idea of what people listen to.

In Dallas, the oldies station is below a 10 share, and again the leading format is talk and sports with nearly a 25 share. Country has over a 10 share, and AC about an 8.

 

[FredRichards]

I find it hard to believe that more people over 55 prefer Classic Rock to Oldies! It goes against that whole business about relating more to music that was popular during one's teen years. Out of curiosity, where does Standards fit in for over 55s?

I think there are two camps. The first are the folks raised on traditional Top-40 radio, and the Billboard playlist. Then there are the those that switched from Top-40 to the "progressive" or "album" stations.

I like the Top-40 style of oldies, but there are some times when I enjoy the long versions of songs, or some of the album cuts. It's kind of refreshing to hear the long version of songs, or some of the tunes that were Bubblers on the charts.

 

[OldiesCat]

Next year, nearly no advertiser who uses radio will want to reach you.

Advertisers just don't smell the money.

Yes, they do. There's no noble cause going on with advertisers who might think, "well, ya know- I know that Oldies format is cool and lots of older people have wads of dough to spend, so maybe I'll quit using TV and other media to target those 55+ people and sink my advertising dollars into radio so a bunch of insecure DJs can keep their gigs".

Their understandable goal: biggest bang for their advertising buck. That's it.

 

[OldiesCat]

I think most people in the "oldies demo" also don't want to typecast themselves as oldies listeners! My XM radio is flipped off regularly in favor of 2 local country stations. You can only hear "Crystal Blue Persuasion" so many times before the gag reflex kicks in. Like Mike Bohan once said on WSIX, they aren't making any new oldies songs!

That hasnothing to do with it. Normal radio listeners don't go around every day worrying about being "typecast", for goodness sake. They're living their lives, doing their jobs, spending time with their families- NOT paranoid about how they'll be perceived by the radio station they listen to. ONLY RADIO PEOPLE think that way.

 

[KevinFodor]

I find it hard to believe that more people over 55 prefer Classic Rock to Oldies! It goes against that whole business about relating more to music that was popular during one's teen years. Out of curiosity, where does Standards fit in for over 55s?

People over 55 do not prefer Classic Rock to Oldies.

But, advertisers do not target radio buys to people over 55. So radio has no economic reason to cater to the over 55
demo.

Standards tries to position itself as a 45 plus format. But, most of it's reach is 65 plus.

I don't agree with it...and I understand the arguments some of you are making (I'm in my 50's, too...and feel like I'm 30.)
But, until and unless you can change the minds of the advertisers you are S.O.L. about getting the original "oldies" format
back on the air.

 

[FredRichards]

People over 55 do not prefer Classic Rock to Oldies.

I wouldn't make a blanket statement to this effect. Some of us old guys enjoy a little Iron Butterfly, Cream, and album Doors cuts now and then. But overall I prefer a standard Oldies format. I find myself listening to Classic Rock at times, but I would say 75% of the time I'm camped on traditional oldies.

But, advertisers do not target radio buys to people over 55. So radio has no economic reason to cater to the over 55 demo.

It depends on how you sell the format. You can't sell Oldies the same way you sell talk, sports, or ChR. And when selling multiple stations the format will also get the shaft due to the contrast between it and other formats. I've never seen a situation where a sales exec has sold Oldies in combination with other formats and the Oldies has not been the bastard child.

Case in point, our local cluster in town has a hard time selling the oldies station as they sell their whole cluster, so you get C&W, ChR, Metal, the AM syndie-talk, and the Oldies. So the Oldies station is tossed in at "added value", or the rates are cut because they are really selling the "other" stations. (Added to this is the fact that the station is dry, dull, and lacks good presentation and what motivation does a buyer have?)

However, that said, I do know stations and sales execs that have made good money off the format. The 50+ audience is a very loyal group if they get a good format to listen to.

The key to good revenues on an oldies format is target selling, selecting businesses that are likely to sell to the 50+ M/F listener. Then, making sure that the format does provide the correct delivery, promotion, and news content that the listeners are looking for. And my pet-peeve; get the kid wannabe DJs off the station who don't know anything about the music, or can't talk up a song.

Anything worth working for, will return rewards.

 

[DavidEduardo]

The key to good revenues on an oldies format is target selling, selecting businesses that are likely to sell to the 50+ M/F listener. Then, making sure that the format does provide the correct delivery, promotion, and news content that the listeners are looking for. And my pet-peeve; get the kid wannabe DJs off the station who don't know anything about the music, or can't talk up a song.

What you say is indeed very true in unrated markets, certain suburban situations and even in some rated markets where agency buys are not a significant part of revenue. There is a big part of America where oldies formats, in the traditional and not "classic hits" form can and do work.

In larger markets, the difference between making and losing money is set by how much agency money you can get. Agencies seldom buy 55+, and the new core demo is 18-49, not 25-54. So over 50 and over 55 do not have any significant potential for agency buys. Pitching 55+ to an agency is pretty much futile, as the media plan is based on a client dictate or decision on a target demo, not on one's ability to pitch a media buyer or planner.

 

[wgliradio]

We've been over this a million times. I still feel that a 55 year old today is quite unlike a 55 year old from 10-20 years ago and that they will respond differently to advertising. I firmly believe this typecast mentality hurts radio by limiting its options.

 

[OldiesCat]

And we've said this over a billion times: don't tell US- tell major companies in America who actually make the advertising decisions.

 

[DavidEduardo]

We've been over this a million times. I still feel that a 55 year old today is quite unlike a 55 year old from 10-20 years ago and that they will respond differently to advertising. I firmly believe this typecast mentality hurts radio by limiting its options.

Tell P&G that the hundreds of millions they spend on consumer research is all wrong.

Quite simply, they do not make enough money selling to 55+ to pay for the advertising on most products (the exception is in senior products for which no brand preference has been firmly developoed)

 

[TheFonz]

Next year, nearly no advertiser who uses radio will want to reach you.

Advertisers just don't smell the money.

Yes, they do. There's no noble cause going on with advertisers who might think, "well, ya know- I know that Oldies format is cool and lots of older people have wads of dough to spend, so maybe I'll quit using TV and other media to target those 55+ people and sink my advertising dollars into radio so a bunch of insecure DJs can keep their gigs".

Their understandable goal: biggest bang for their advertising buck. That's it.

This entire thread is starting to look like what's been discussed on the 50's/'60s Oldies board for the last 5 years. So maybe it's time to use my analogy for the posters on this board who may not have seen it. Radio is the Pimp. The advertiser is the John. And the listener is the Ho. The John is asking the Pimp to find him younger Hos. So the Pimp dumps his old, used up Hos in spite of their years of loyal service. He looks for younger Hos, but he has a problem. Younger Hos don't need the Pimp. They are doing just fine without him. The Pimp begins to lose his Johns. Soon he is working at the car wash. And what about those old, used up Hos? Well, they too are doing just fine without the Pimp. Life is good. And they will live happily ever after. The End.

 

[ceaser]

Here's a suggestiono what I did,get sirius or xm radio and enjoy life again.I also have a huge cd oldies library and not the same old sh#t either.Why do us oldies listeners need free radio anyway?I sure don't.