Yes I know. I'm only talking about LPFM. 80-90 is ancient history, and it happened before big radio companies.
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Yes I know. I'm only talking about LPFM. 80-90 is ancient history, and it happened before big radio companies.
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Harvey_Dogg
Guest
There aren't many frequencies left for a full 100 watt LPFM. The FM band is clogged even out in the sticks. And there are few frequencies where these pirates won't be hurting someone on FM if they're running any power. And, it can be really bad if a pirate uses homebrew transmitters or junk off Ebay and they don't know about suppressing spurs and harmonics.
There aren't many frequencies left for a full 100 watt LPFM. The FM band is clogged even out in the sticks.
Yes I know. It's been that way for a while.
Quite frankly the 'sticks' is where LPFM tends to work best as sort of micro small town radio stations for communities that haven't the economic base for a full power FM. A town of a few thousand and their own school can provide plenty of financial support and warm bodies to make a LPFM a true community asset. In many instances full power stations ignore such communities or string up a group of poorer performing stations as somewhat of a network that typically has nothing local on their airwaves.
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Harvey_Dogg
Guest
I think the FCC's new increased pirate radio penalty will be a deterrent for anyone who has money or owns property.
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kenglish
Guest
I give that a "like", but it all depends on whether or not the FCC can actually collect any of those fines.
Hopefully, they have real support.
Hopefully, they have real support.
They don't..a translator can run 250w ERP up to a certain height...LPFMs are limited to 100w/100ft max...any height increase causes reduction in ERP. XLATORS are pretty much allowed 250w ERP up to 600m, or 2000ft there abouts...no reduction in ERP if no interference. Xlators is FX class..LPFM are LP CLASS...AND FX trumps LP on channels, etc.There have been two LPFM filing windows. There was no translator invasion prior to the first filing window. It seems to me it had been years earlier before the first LPFM filing window that their was a translator filing window that was a can of worms the FCC had to hash through. AM transators was not a thing. LPFM and translators are equal however when push comes to shove, it's who was there first that seems to hold the better cards in the deck.
I might add, in my opinion, if the FCC is going to class a LPFM the same as a translator, then why not permit up to 250 watts at a HAAT that fills the non-interference hole is the applicant chooses.
I specifically know of a case of LPFM vs. translator. The LPFM stayed. The Translator didn't. From all the FCC Rules and Regs I have read, the LPFM and Translator are both equal in class. LP and FX are mere abbreviations of the service not the class of service.
It is very true the equality ends on paper. If both were equal, LPFM would not be limited to 100 watts at 30 meters HAAT or equivalent. You are correct, the translator can operate up to 250 watts at whatever HAAT it can to fill the lack of interference hole. Some translators cover most of their market thanks to a less crowded frequency. I recall an application for a translator from the Missouri City stick at 99 watts that would pretty much cover much of Houston. That might not be exceptional indoors but for in car listening and Houston traffic, it could be a top rated station.
It is very true the equality ends on paper. If both were equal, LPFM would not be limited to 100 watts at 30 meters HAAT or equivalent. You are correct, the translator can operate up to 250 watts at whatever HAAT it can to fill the lack of interference hole. Some translators cover most of their market thanks to a less crowded frequency. I recall an application for a translator from the Missouri City stick at 99 watts that would pretty much cover much of Houston. That might not be exceptional indoors but for in car listening and Houston traffic, it could be a top rated station.
This. Both are considered the same service-level, when it comes to protecting full-class stations:I specifically know of a case of LPFM vs. translator. The LPFM stayed. The Translator didn't. From all the FCC Rules and Regs I have read, the LPFM and Translator are both equal in class. LP and FX are mere abbreviations of the service not the class of service.
"LPFM stations must protect authorized radio broadcast stations on the same channel or frequency (cochannel), as well as broadcast stations on first or second-adjacent channels above or below the LPFM station's frequency. This protection is accomplished through the use of minimum distance separation requirements, which are set forth in 47 CFR 73.807."
"Contour protection. FM translator stations must meet the contour protection criteria specified in 47 CFR Section 74.1204 with respect to all FM stations (including Class D noncommercial educational secondary stations) and all FM translator or booster stations".
Many of the translators in Houston run over 1000 watts and some originate programming 24/7I specifically know of a case of LPFM vs. translator. The LPFM stayed. The Translator didn't. From all the FCC Rules and Regs I have read, the LPFM and Translator are both equal in class. LP and FX are mere abbreviations of the service not the class of service.
It is very true the equality ends on paper. If both were equal, LPFM would not be limited to 100 watts at 30 meters HAAT or equivalent. You are correct, the translator can operate up to 250 watts at whatever HAAT it can to fill the lack of interference hole. Some translators cover most of their market thanks to a less crowded frequency. I recall an application for a translator from the Missouri City stick at 99 watts that would pretty much cover much of Houston. That might not be exceptional indoors but for in car listening and Houston traffic, it could be a top rated station.
I'm confused...why aren't competing stations outing them to the FCC?Many of the translators in Houston run over 1000 watts and some originate programming 24/7
I doubt it. Care to name call letters? It's a simple matter to see what their authorization(s) are.Many of the translators in Houston run over 1000 watts and some originate programming 24/7
K
kenglish
Guest
Does the FCC have a Monitoring Pod in Houston?
I doubt it. Note they didn't name names, so I think their comment was pure wild speculation. Either that, or they're making the determination based on an S-meter reading.Does the FCC have a Monitoring Pod in Houston?
I know of the players in Houston they are not mentioning. Let's just say these operators have little respect for FCC Rules. You might refer to it as a cultural thing as these folks were born in countries where the government frequently enacted laws that favored the wealthy versus average citizen. In such situations a 'workaround' to circumvent the law was common. When a FCC rule gets in the way, they find a workaround. I base this on having one of the groups for a client several years. I haven't witnessed some of these claims so I won't mention names but quite honestly, based on my first hand experience I would not put much past them. I don't think there's anybody from the FCC in Houston anymore. I think Dallas is the closest office.
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Harvey_Dogg
Guest
A chief engineer in Indianapolis told me he used his cellphone to access the remote control to turn down the transmit power of a violating station as he drove to the tower for an FCC inspection. The FCC had shown up at the studio. They went to the transmit site in seperate cars. The Commission found no violation.
The power was turned back up when the FCC was out of town.
The station was sold years ago. The new operator obeys the rules and I can no longer pick up the stations signal. It used to come in good.
The power was turned back up when the FCC was out of town.
The station was sold years ago. The new operator obeys the rules and I can no longer pick up the stations signal. It used to come in good.
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Eh, I don't know. I think pirates have been coddled for too long, getting it too easy. So I don't put much creedence in fines or increasing the fines, jail time, etc. What good is it ... if not enforced and in the end, reduced or dismissed or no one is actually jailed. And, there they are back on the air, again!
There are blatant pirates, who get shut down, and go back on again, and again, and frequency jump. Now, they're owners of (sometimes multiple) LPFMs or AMs (and own both LPFMs and AMs in a market). Amazes me how the pirate claims hardships and they can't pay the fines, but are able to put LPFMs and AMs on the air. And if they're illegal with the "underground" station, then you wonder how legal the AM or LPFM, is? There's legal AM operators who lose stations (that end up dark) over FCC fines for tower lights, not follow EBS rules, etc., and so on, not having an employee on premises to monitor the LMA, to properly deal with inspectors when they show up, not upkeeping public inspection files, not knowing what "that is." So how can you depend on the ex-pirate to adhere if the legit AM operator, can not.
On a tangent: this "loophole" that allows the big boys to dupe their FM-HD sub-channels over a cluster of translators, annoys me to no end. So much for wanting to "revitalize AM." Yeah, right. The other loophole: commercial AM owners, under shells with different names of officers -- that is easily traced right back to the commercial AM operator, and the AMs and LPFMs share staff -- own faux mini-networks with multiple LPFMs. Annoying.
There are blatant pirates, who get shut down, and go back on again, and again, and frequency jump. Now, they're owners of (sometimes multiple) LPFMs or AMs (and own both LPFMs and AMs in a market). Amazes me how the pirate claims hardships and they can't pay the fines, but are able to put LPFMs and AMs on the air. And if they're illegal with the "underground" station, then you wonder how legal the AM or LPFM, is? There's legal AM operators who lose stations (that end up dark) over FCC fines for tower lights, not follow EBS rules, etc., and so on, not having an employee on premises to monitor the LMA, to properly deal with inspectors when they show up, not upkeeping public inspection files, not knowing what "that is." So how can you depend on the ex-pirate to adhere if the legit AM operator, can not.
On a tangent: this "loophole" that allows the big boys to dupe their FM-HD sub-channels over a cluster of translators, annoys me to no end. So much for wanting to "revitalize AM." Yeah, right. The other loophole: commercial AM owners, under shells with different names of officers -- that is easily traced right back to the commercial AM operator, and the AMs and LPFMs share staff -- own faux mini-networks with multiple LPFMs. Annoying.
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You might say "what were they smoking". There were two LPFMs in a small town that hated each other...bitter rivals. Both were operating from non-authorized transmitter sites, over powered and above licensed HAAT. Both were running full fledged commercials. Why the two decided to turn the other one in to the FCC is beyond me.
Both were heavily involved in the community and had a good deal of listeners.
The when FCC came for a visit both claimed ignorance and they were given 30 days to get legal. They did and neither was fined. Maybe the FCC rep had just too much paperwork at the time and didn't want to increase the paperwork. Maybe he believed them. Since neither were bringing in a whole bunch of cash maybe they thought a fine would never be paid. I think an AM might have been looking at a hefty fine.
A friend that runs a LPFM told me he met them and went to look at their operation. Both were well aware of all the illegal aspects of their respective operations. They figured the just wouldn't be caught.
Both were heavily involved in the community and had a good deal of listeners.
The when FCC came for a visit both claimed ignorance and they were given 30 days to get legal. They did and neither was fined. Maybe the FCC rep had just too much paperwork at the time and didn't want to increase the paperwork. Maybe he believed them. Since neither were bringing in a whole bunch of cash maybe they thought a fine would never be paid. I think an AM might have been looking at a hefty fine.
A friend that runs a LPFM told me he met them and went to look at their operation. Both were well aware of all the illegal aspects of their respective operations. They figured the just wouldn't be caught.
I think you were told a tale. If a Commission Field Office receives a complaint about a station running over, or under licensed power, the enforcement officers will go out with field strength meters and measure the field strength at 1 and 10km, then calculate with the operating field strength long before they ever set foot on station property for an inspection. If the station engineer jacked-around with TPO, they would be able to determine it fairly easily. If the station was determined to knowingly try to deceive field enforcement, that station, and potentially the engineer, would be in deep kimchee.A chief engineer in Indianapolis told me he used his cellphone to access the remote control to turn down the transmit power of a violating station as he drove to the tower for an FCC inspection. The FCC had shown up at the studio. They went to the transmit site in seperate cars. The Commission found no violation.
The power was turned back up when the FCC was out of town.
The station was sold years ago. The new operator obeys the rules and I can no longer pick up the stations signal. It used to come in good.
K
kenglish
Guest
I would love to see the math they use to do that. I think we would all enjoy "checking up" on certain stations.I think you were told a tale. If a Commission Field Office receives a complaint about a station running over, or under licensed power, the enforcement officers will go out with field strength meters and measure the field strength at 1 and 10km, then calculate with the operating field strength long before they ever set foot on station property for an inspection. If the station engineer jacked-around with TPO, they would be able to determine it fairly easily. If the station was determined to knowingly try to deceive field enforcement, that station, and potentially the engineer, would be in deep kimchee.
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