Cleveland Radio June 23 Ratings

[DavidEduardo]

That is a pretty arrogant thing to say. You could have said "now, name some more".

You went on to name many events and artists that were well attended or followed in Cleveland because of WMMS, not because of the artists. Many "big" stations in a variety of formats have created their own aura that transferred to the songs and artists they played... in rock, KROQ seems to be the best example with ones like KBPI also fitting that model.

Well, yes. The "breaker stations" staffs often knew each other (birds of a feather) and shared tips with each other about new acts.

Or, more probably, they subscribed to FMQB or Hamilton or Gavin or the variety of AOR and Rock tip sheets. We all had stations we "trusted" and whose adds often spurred us to a parallel add if we were not already on a song.

Not exactly. There would be suggested "lead cuts" from an album by the record guys, but ultimately they wanted you to play the album and were not all that concered about which cuts you chose.

Sometimes. And other times they would even threaten to take away albums for give-aways, first dibs on concert tickets and concert naming credits, etc. if you did not help bring home the selected cut.

These "lead cuts" were only suggestions to stations which were either too lazy to listen to the album or didn't have the resources to review all the material submitted.

Very few station PDs had the time to listen to whole albums. We looked at our favorite weekly sheets and listened to the cuts being added, particularly if we had not added after the initial service from the label.

I know that the classic WMMS airstaff were music fans and used to personally advocate adds at weekly music meetings based on stuff that they heard at home from their weekly pile of albums (at MMS in those days, the record guy had to bring a dozen copies so that all the jocks got their own stuff to review).

WMMS was an exception, as a lot of stations, particularly in that area of the country, followed it closely. But I can tell you that in, let's say, Miami or Phoenix, stations did not pay a lot of attention to WMMS as it did not reflect their local markets.

 

[radiofollower]

Here's what pisses me off: When did "classic rock" and "classic hits" [formerly known as "oldies"] become clones of each other? I would say that about 80% of what I hear on several differently formatted stations have the same playlist. There are songs I now hear on, lets say WNCX, are being played on WMJI. 'NCX is playing songs nowadays that would never would have been called "rock" when it first came out but nowadays is being called called "classic rock".

And how many stations across various formats are playing The Eagles and Billy Joel endlessly?

 

[Yabadabado1]

And how many stations across various formats are playing The Eagles and Billy Joel endlessly?

Not playing it......Jazz stations [unless there's a jazzed up version of their songs I don't know about], country, although that might be suspect nowadays cause a lot of country stations are now sounding like AC/CHR and vice-versa. Foreign language stations probably aren't unless William Hung [remember American Idol & his version of "She Bangs"?] has done a cover of it, or BTS for the Korean stations. probably classical stations aren't playing it. If Muzak is still a thing they might have instrumental versions of it.

 

[johnbasalla]

QUOTE: "WMMS was the first in the nation to play Suzi Quatro and The Sensational Alex Harvey Band. Both acts failed to catch nationally (small, insignificant labels didn't help)".

Suzi Quatro, in the U.S., started out on BELL RECORDS. They were a major label who had hits by the likes of Tony Orlando and Dawn, the one hit by Vicki Lawrence, "Seasons In The Sun" by Canadian Terry Jacks, the early music of Sweet ("Little Willy"), and, "Mandy" by Barry Manilow after which Bell Records had a name (and ownership?) change to Arista.

In the mid 1970s, Alex Harvey had music on Vertigo Records (a subsidiary of Mercury Records), Atlantic Records and a single I've seen on Capitol Records.

 

[radiofollower]

Not playing it......Jazz stations [unless there's a jazzed up version of their songs I don't know about], country, although that might be suspect nowadays cause a lot of country stations are now sounding like AC/CHR and vice-versa. Foreign language stations probably aren't unless William Hung [remember American Idol & his version of "She Bangs"?] has done a cover of it, or BTS for the Korean stations. probably classical stations aren't playing it. If Muzak is still a thing they might have instrumental versions of it.

I am talking about contemporary-based stations. I know that the Eagles are not played on foreign language stations, jazz stations, classical stations or heard on police and fire radio.

 

[radiofollower]

QUOTE: "WMMS was the first in the nation to play Suzi Quatro and The Sensational Alex Harvey Band. Both acts failed to catch nationally (small, insignificant labels didn't help)".

Suzi Quatro, in the U.S., started out on BELL RECORDS. They were a major label who had hits by the likes of Tony Orlando and Dawn, the one hit by Vicki Lawrence, "Seasons In The Sun" by Canadian Terry Jacks, the early music of Sweet ("Little Willy"), and, "Mandy" by Barry Manilow after which Bell Records had a name (and ownership?) change to Arista

In the mid 1970s, Alex Harvey had music on Vertigo Records (a subsidiary of Mercury Records), Atlantic Records and a single I've seen on Capitol Records.

Bell and Mercury had no local promo people and were thrown into a local distribution deal with an organization that handled all kinds of smaller labels. Bell was not considered a serious player until it was relaunched as Arista.
The story out of WMMS is that the guy who represented this "catch all" distribution organization, had no idea who these people were. People at the station had to point out to this guy that he had these artists!

 

[Yabadabado1]

I am talking about contemporary-based stations. I know that the Eagles are not played on foreign language stations, jazz stations, classical stations or heard on police and fire radio.

And how many stations across various formats....as you posted, didn't limit it to CHR/AC/OLDIES. Yeah, I'm just poking the bear, but I knew what you meant.....I wouldn't be surprised if I heard them on a "Music Of Your LIfe" station, if they even exist anymore, although that would just make me feel ancient.

 

[VintageMac]

Bell was not considered a serious player until it was relaunched as Arista.ack then the Partridge Family and David Cassidy were on Bell Records and they were quite popular so the label was not as obscure as one might think.

Back then, the Partridge Family who had their own tv show and David Cassidy were on Bell Records and were popular artists so the label was not as obscure as one might think. Also, the Godspell soundtrack was on Bell and well known in the Catholic and Christian genres.

 

[johnbasalla]

Bell Records was already 'kicking-it' in the late 1960s. Merillee Rush & The Turnabouts enjoyed a Top 10 "Billboard Hot 100" hit in 1968 with "Angel of The Morning". In 1969, Crazy Elephant had a hit with "Gimme Gimme Good Lovin'". In fact, up until 1970, Bell Records was part of a family of labels: AMY, BELL and MALA. The hits by the Box Tops (i.e.: "The Letter" , "Soul Deep") were all on Mala Records except for their very last charted "Hot 100" hit which was on Bell Records after, I presume, Amy and Mala were retired as active labels.

 

[johnbasalla]

Back then, the Partridge Family who had their own tv show and David Cassidy were on Bell Records and were popular artists so the label was not as obscure as one might think. Also, the Godspell soundtrack was on Bell and well known in the Catholic and Christian genres.

Good catchy, Vintage. I would only point out that Catholics are Christians.

 

[radiofollower]

Back then, the Partridge Family who had their own tv show and David Cassidy were on Bell Records and were popular artists so the label was not as obscure as one might think.

Yes, but -- again - the problem was Bell (as well as Mercury/Vertigo) had no dedicated label rep in Cleveland, so they were thrown into a general "various labels" distributor which was deadly for new, unknown album artists, as the local rep couldn't (or wouldn't) take the time to find out about these people and pitch them to the radio programmers.

 

[TheBigA]

Yes, but -- again - the problem was Bell (as well as Mercury/Vertigo) had no dedicated label rep in Cleveland,

As I said earlier in this thread, the same situation exists today in certain formats.

 

[VintageMac]

Good catchy, Vintage. I would only point out that Catholics are Christians.

Absolutely as I'm Catholic myself. I should have worded that differently but I was thinking about how I learned about Godspell and it was when I was in Catholic grade school and the soundtrack was popular then as compared to Jesus Christ Superstar which was considered more"edgy" and controversial although that was popular as well. This was at the time when guitar/folk groups were popular in some churches and music was changing compared to the old hymns.

 

[VintageMac]

Yes, but -- again - the problem was Bell (as well as Mercury/Vertigo) had no dedicated label rep in Cleveland, so they were thrown into a general "various labels" distributor which was deadly for new, unknown album artists, as the local rep couldn't (or wouldn't) take the time to find out about these people and pitch them to the radio programmers.

That apparently didn't matter since the artists mentioned became quite popular on their own and something like Godspell which probably did not get a lot or radio play on stations like WMMS still became well known.

Another group on Bell was the Fifth Dimension who had numerous hits.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Yes, but -- again - the problem was Bell (as well as Mercury/Vertigo) had no dedicated label rep in Cleveland, so they were thrown into a general "various labels" distributor which was deadly for new, unknown album artists, as the local rep couldn't (or wouldn't) take the time to find out about these people and pitch them to the radio programmers.

A "general label" distributor is different than a promotion department or a hired independent promotion company or person.

The "distributor" handled getting physical product to the one-stops and big chains that had their own internal department that worked like a "one stop". A one stop was a company that stocked all the active product, old and new, from all the labels and delivered it to local record stores on demand. It had nothing to do with promotion.

An "indie" was one or more record promoters who contracted with labels to push currents to radio stations and, sometimes, clubs and the like. If there were local TV variety or music shows, they worked them, too. Indies would go on a full label basis or on a song-by-song basis.

In some cases, a promoter would work with artist management when a tour or market visit brought the artist to a particular city.

Further, sometimes bigger labels would hire independents to push a very important product and to key stations in addition to their normal promotion which included all the newer singles on the label. Indies were also used (Think "Joe Isgro" here) to do promotional activities the label did not want direct ties to.

Few record companies had promotion offices in smaller markets like Cleveland. A lot of the promotion was done either by regional promo people or supplemented by independents.

If based in Cleveland, a promo person of either kind, indie or label, would cover at least as far as Columbus, Toledo, Youngstown, and all the smaller markets around it. They might even cover Buffalo and Pittsburgh and Detroit if the "center" was in Cleveland.

Back in the 60's and 70's, there was no toll-free long distance. There was no overnight delivery of releases.

In 1972 I was with the largest AM/FM combo in Birmingham, quite a bit smaller, but we were two stations with what today would be called Hot AC and Rock 40 formats. We were serviced out of Atlanta, and seldom saw a record promoter. We got releases in the mail. Rarely we got phone calls. Yet we were considered a "breaker" combo as we went on songs fairly rapidly.

Our main source of information was FMQB, Hamilton and, some of the time, Gavin.

 

[radiofollower]

A "general label" distributor is different than a promotion department or a hired independent promotion company or person.

The "distributor" handled getting physical product to the one-stops and big chains that had their own internal department that worked like a "one stop". A one stop was a company that stocked all the active product, old and new, from all the labels and delivered it to local record stores on demand. It had nothing to do with promotion.

An "indie" was one or more record promoters who contracted with labels to push currents to radio stations and, sometimes, clubs and the like. If there were local TV variety or music shows, they worked them, too. Indies would go on a full label basis or on a song-by-song basis.

In some cases, a promoter would work with artist management when a tour or market visit brought the artist to a particular city.

Further, sometimes bigger labels would hire independents to push a very important product and to key stations in addition to their normal promotion which included all the newer singles on the label. Indies were also used (Think "Joe Isgro" here) to do promotional activities the label did not want direct ties to.

Few record companies had promotion offices in smaller markets like Cleveland. A lot of the promotion was done either by regional promo people or supplemented by independents.

If based in Cleveland, a promo person of either kind, indie or label, would cover at least as far as Columbus, Toledo, Youngstown, and all the smaller markets around it. They might even cover Buffalo and Pittsburgh and Detroit if the "center" was in Cleveland.

Back in the 60's and 70's, there was no toll-free long distance. There was no overnight delivery of releases.

In 1972 I was with the largest AM/FM combo in Birmingham, quite a bit smaller, but we were two stations with what today would be called Hot AC and Rock 40 formats. We were serviced out of Atlanta, and seldom saw a record promoter. We got releases in the mail. Rarely we got phone calls. Yet we were considered a "breaker" combo as we went on songs fairly rapidly.

Our main source of information was FMQB, Hamilton and, some of the time, Gavin.

Trust me.....NOBODY was promoting Suzi Quatro on Bell or Alex Harvey on Mercury/Vertigo when those first albums were released. NOBODY. The only way that those acts got discovered and played was they were discovered in a pile of releases by some of the MMS jocks back then, who had a habit of listening to every record that came into the station.

 

[TheBigA]

The only way that those acts got discovered and played was they were discovered in a pile of releases by some of the MMS jocks back then, who had a habit of listening to every record that came into the station.

The same thing happened at other similar stations around the country. Rosko had a personal connection with Richie Havens. His debut album Mixed Bag was on the new folk imprint of a jazz label: Verve Records. Their big stars at the time were Count Basie, Ella Fitzgerald, and Stan Getz. You go through the list of their releases in the 60s, and it's the biggest names in jazz. Quincy Jones, Oscar Peterson, Wes Montgomery. And THEN out of the blue, you see Richie Havens. There was nobody at Verve who was promoting Richie Havens. But what he was doing connected with Rosko. There's an aircheck of Rosko in the 60s talking about Havens as though he was at WRVR introducing a jazz record, listing the musicians on the record and giving the catalogue number. It's crazy. This is what FM radio was like at the time. No pressure. No money. No rules. That's why I called it the wild west. It was only for a few years. Internet radio is like this now.

 

[radiofollower]

The same thing happened at other similar stations around the country. Rosko had a personal connection with Richie Havens. His debut album Mixed Bag was on the new folk imprint of a jazz label: Verve Records. Their big stars at the time were Count Basie, Ella Fitzgerald, and Stan Getz. You go through the list of their releases in the 60s, and it's the biggest names in jazz. Quincy Jones, Oscar Peterson, Wes Montgomery. And THEN out of the blue, you see Richie Havens. There was nobody at Verve who was promoting Richie Havens. But what he was doing connected with Rosko. There's an aircheck of Rosko in the 60s talking about Havens as though he was at WRVR introducing a jazz record, listing the musicians on the record and giving the catalogue number. It's crazy. This is what FM radio was like at the time. No pressure. No money. No rules. That's why I called it the wild west. It was only for a few years. Internet radio is like this now.

Yes, very true. Most FM album rock deejays back then were music freaks and couldn't wait to dig through a pile of new albums by unknown people to try to discover something that they could play for their audience.

 

[TheBigA]

Yes, very true. Most FM album rock deejays back then were music freaks and couldn't wait to dig through a pile of new albums by unknown people to try to discover something that they could play for their audience.

And a lot of them left radio in the 80s and went to record labels, where they could do artist development, such as Kid Leo.

We mentioned Tom Donohue. He left KYA in 1965 because he hated what AM Top 40 radio had become. So he set about to do something different. It worked for a while, but a few years after he died, KSAN became exactly what he had hated about Top 40. Then it flipped to country.

The only place where you see this passion for music now is in non-commercial radio, such as KCRW or WXPN.

 

[radiofollower]

And a lot of them left radio in the 80s and went to record labels, where they could do artist development, such as Kid Leo.

We mentioned Tom Donohue. He left KYA in 1965 because he hated what AM Top 40 radio had become. So he set about to do something different. It worked for a while, but a few years after he died, KSAN became exactly what he had hated about Top 40. Then it flipped to country.

The only place where you see this passion for music now is in non-commercial radio, such as KCRW or WXPN.

Yes, KCRW and WXPN are terrific. Also WFUV in New York. When WNEW-FM tightened up and finally went under, Pete Fornatale and Vin Scelsa fled to WFUV. May I recommend two streaming services: Radio Paradise (their main mix is fabulous) at Commercial Free - Listener Supported. And keep an eye out for ex-WMMS architect John Gorman's oWOW, which is currently on hiatus but should be back soon.