Talk Radio Scoreboard for Large Markets: June 2014

[FredLeonard]

And those farmers are just as "sophisticated" as the average guy who works in a call center in Boston or a coffee shop in Brooklyn. There's this little thing called the Internet that almost everyone has. It's not like people who live in the "sticks" haven't seen what life in the big city is all about.

And I'd love to put 100 people from my little city up against 100 people from the Bronx and see how many of them know which forks to use for which courses. I guarantee my guys would win.

Gillette, WY vs. the Bronx? Afraid to go against Manhattan? Are there any restaurants in Gillette with multiple fork options? At really good restaurants, they change the setting and bring proper utensils for each course.

They have Internet in Gillette? Oh, that's right. I see it every month on my phone, wireless and cable bill. Those "rubes" always complaining about "welfare" want me to pay for their Internet, phone and cable in the name of "universal access." Not to mention all the government subsidies that go to farmers and ranchers - including those paid for doing nothing. These hypocrites object to government spending - only when it benefits somebody else.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I see it every month on my phone, wireless and cable bill. Those "rubes" always complaining about "welfare" want me to pay for their Internet, phone and cable in the name of "universal access." Not to mention all the government subsidies that go to farmers and ranchers - including those paid for doing nothing. These hypocrites object to government spending - only when it benefits somebody else.

I think you have propped up a stand-in and swatted the stand-in down with bad observations. Yes, out in farm country you will find people complaining about government spending. But in any big Northeastern metro area neighborhood we could go "bar hopping" and find city-type rubes moaning and complaining about the same issues.

You make an assumption that the "universal access" money is all spent to bring communications to the wealthy farmer. I suppose none of that money goes to bring communications to those people who live in the less densely populated parts of New York and New England?

I have noted through the years that when we travel and explore some of the "barren lands"... you know, the incubator locations where rubes are bred.... that you can find a bed'n-breakfast that will serve a meal as fine as that found in a city, and they sometimes place an interesting set of silverware before you. Not staying in a BnB.... just ask around and the locals will steer you to some hidden-away eatery where they go when they feel the need for "puttin' on the Ritz".

No matter who we are and where we are... we probably need to come to terms with the fact that the problems of the nation are not resting on the backs of "THOSE people over there in some distant, God-forsaken geography (city or rural), but THESE people that I live amongst."

I'm old enough to remember when RADIO (does anyone remember that on this Board we actually talk about RADIO!) was the circuit that carried some low-voltage current of knowledge, curiosity, political-awareness, and delivered dreams to people where ever they were, and gave them a curiosity about other places and other people.

Radio was once a big room where people who wanted to help people see the bigness of the world could be a part of that project. Today I can't get past the observation that a portion of the broadcast industry seems to have adopted the goal of seeing how much of the populace they can dumb-down!

Oh well.... the good side is: everybody in the radio business is getting rich doing it. [choke. cough. sputter. belch.]

 

[FredLeonard]

GRC: I assume universal access is used to subsidize Internet access in remote or sparsely populated areas. Areas where car insurance is cheaper and taxes are lower. Yes, some things cost more but lots of things cost less. The highways around me are chocked with traffic and pot holes but the sticks get nice, new multi-lane highways. The farm lobby does pretty well while maintaining its "red state" image. Sparsely populated areas of New England and New York have farms. Some places forests, which fall under the Department of Agriculture, and are considered a cash crop.

Where do B&Bs serve dinner? They are not called B&D for a reason.

For the record: "Puttin' On The Ritz" by Irving Berlin is a 1929 song with lyrics today considered racist ridiculing poor Blacks in Harlem who dress in flashy clothes and throw away all their money on extravagant nightlife.

 

[Avid Listener]

It amazes me that people still kvetch about government subsidies that enable American industries to better compete with foreign competition, and that result in overall lower prices for everyone who eats food. When the government takes over paying for health care so that doctors can afford a third Mercedes or a bigger yacht, that's praised as being a benefit "for the people". When someone operating a large scale farm gets a subsidy that helps him keep his tractors and combines working, those same people whine about "welfare" for farmers and ranchers.

Sure, there is some corruption in government, which means some clever folks manage to scam the system when they shouldn't. Whether it's clever folks in the ghetto scamming free cell phones or EBT cards when they don't really need or deserve them, or landowners pretending to be farmers or ranchers getting subsidies for fallow land, the principle is still the same. It still all comes down to a deeply entrenched batch of crooked, corrupt, career politicians staying in office way too long.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

GRC: I assume universal access is used to subsidize Internet access in remote or sparsely populated areas. Areas where car insurance is cheaper and taxes are lower. Yes, some things cost more but lots of things cost less. The highways around me are chocked with traffic and pot holes but the sticks get nice, new multi-lane highways. The farm lobby does pretty well while maintaining its "red state" image. Sparsely populated areas of New England and New York have farms. Some places forests, which fall under the Department of Agriculture, and are considered a cash crop.

Check out this reference from Wikipedia. Universal Service Fund Link

I think you will find that trhe USF also wants to make sure that schools and hospitals that serve the residents of lower income residential neighborhoods in NYC, Boston, Buffalo, etc get decent Internet and phone system access. Not just the introverts living in converted tood-sheds in Montana, or the 14th generation Scotch-Irish living in the hollows of Appalachia somewhere.

Do you ever get out of the Northeast? Have you ever made a road trip from Atlanta to maybe downtown Houston or Dallas? Ever climbed into a SUV or van in Detroit and rolled through Grand Rapids, down the coast-line and on through Chicago and then on to St. Louis... or maybe Minneapolis?

I don't know how much of what you write about this city-vs-country rubes you actually believe, and when you like our friend SMG just love to throw a conversation stink-bomb into a bar-room where a bunch of large-ego folks have gathered for some rowdy conversation.

I've stood on a street corner in Brooklyn back when bank machines did not yet accept just about any and all competing cards and having a small family discussion about where I could get some cash for the next couple of days and had locals walking by hear just enough of the conversation to join in and be helpful and friendly and courteous.... just like I had seen in Moberly, Mo or Canton, IL or Little Rock, AR.

I guess I don't understand some of the foaming-at-the-mouth conversations that take place here. Yes, I instigate some topics that sometimes result in these "flatulent contests" in hopes that we can all realize that no matter what nook, cranny or corner of this nation we live in, there are SOME TOPICS that affect us all, and topics we need to learn to talk about... with some respect for the needs, the prejudices and the goals of all of our citizens.

So where were we in this thread? We started out trying to make sense and find some useful factoids by looking at current ratings in major market talk radio. Some folks are looking for a glimmer of hope that their career dreams... or their political dreams will soon come true because we can find numbers showing that conservative talk radio is the salvation of civilization. Other folks are like a committee of vultures walking around, taking a tour of an old fashioned city dump in hopes of finding proof that talk radio as we know it will eventually lead to the end of civilization.

And mabye somewherebetween those two extremes... just maybe some gems of wisdom exist.

 

[DavidEduardo]

So where were we in this thread? We started out trying to make sense and find some useful factoids by looking at current ratings in major market talk radio.

And the question is still unanswered.

I came up with an interesting theory which is that there are too many problems (1) and scandals (2) that people have started tuning out because they are on bad news overload and are assuming an ostrich-like position.

At some point, you don't want to discuss it any more (like this thread is becoming) and you either go to NPR or similar for "Just the facts, Ma'm" or tune it out completely.

It used to be the theory that conservative talk benefited when a Democrat was in the White House. That definitely does not apply any more.

(1) Immigration reform, Central American kids in Texas, rising taxes, unemployment, folks dropped out of the labor market, Syria, Iran, Iraq, ISIS, North Korea, drug lords, identity theft, etc., etc.

(2) Invented or not: IRS, the consulate in Algeria, VA Hospitals, Obamacare, etc.

 

[TheBigA]

It used to be the theory that conservative talk benefited when a Democrat was in the White House. That definitely does not apply any more.

That was a big list of topics, and almost none of it relates directly to regular people. If the talkers are right, and the world shouldn't revolve around Washington, then why is that the center of everything they talk about? It seems like a massive contradiction, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who's noticed it. If the goal is to bring government closer to home, then that's what they should talk about. What's going on at home?

 

[frankberry]

For me, when I worked in Tampa, I commuted across the bay to St. Petersburg after work every day.
I just didn't need the added stress of listening to talk radio while driving in heavy, slow-moving traffic.

 

[TheBigA]

Some key things talk radio could learn from music radio:

1) Keep it moving. Don't dwell on the same subject all the time. People have short attention spans, and they want to hear more than the same subject all day.

2) Make it relatable. If the problem is in Washington, then quit putting the focus there. There are lots of other places to talk about. Like maybe the home area. Too many local talk shows ignore the COL. Why have a local host if he's talking about the exact same things as the national guys. Get out there with the listeners and involve them in what you do. Otherwise, the boss can just run syndication.

3) Make it entertaining. Fun. Creative. This isn't supposed to be a lecture. It's supposed to be entertainment. Watch Comedy Central. They know how to entertain.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Is it possible that the festering boil in the discussion groups is about the burst and drain, and maybe some healing can happen, and maybe we can become at least a little more rational.

Several weeks back SMG and I got into some debate over healthcare in America: Does it have problems? Does Obamachare help or make worse those problems. We began splattering each other with word-bombs. I suggested to him I would like to share my personal involvement in the "medical industrial complex' in past years, and the family connections I currently have in the world of medicine. (It causes me to absorb the news of the day and come to different conclusions than he does.)

He wanted no part of it. The facts speak for themselves. Just debate the facts.

I was distracted yesterday with some of the grimy, gritty duties of life (can you say 'dentist chair' boys and girls) and I come home last night to find this passionat plea from SMG that we should listen to him because he lives where 40% of America's coal is currently produced (I had already looked up his area and knew that little factoid!) and he had a grandfather who was a coal miner in WV.

Whoop-tee-doo! My first reaction was to fire back a response in the middle of the night: "I don't care about your experience. Just stick to the facts! We should just all look at the facts and be done with it!"

No, in life we all turn to folks with experience, with knowledge, with connections. If I have a question about my computer, I don't ask my wife's hair-dresser for computer advice.... I go to my friends with current day jobs in computers, or retired folks who are still in touch with their old computer friends.

So there is a tribe of us who find conversation via the computer screen useful, entertaining, or something. Maybe we can learn from all this. Maybe we can help each other understand what conversations our people, our nation need to focus on, and what conversation we are having simply because some Texas-style Whirlwind just came through the barnyard and threw a lot of dried something into the air and the people on the radio told us that is the important stuff we need to be discussing.

P.S. A note to SMG: My hometown used to be a mining town. My wife lost relatives who died in mining accidents, and uncles who left this world suffering from Black Lung Disease. During my years as an insurance and risk management person, one of the divisions of our company operated coal mines in Eastern Kentucky. I've been underground and watched them push that plunger just like in the old cowboy movies and bring down "a wall of coal". That is not an event you quickly forget.

So I don't want to hear your crap that you know more about the EPA and meddlesome government that the rest of us do. And though you claim to do gymnastics each morning.... the rest of us put our pants on daily.... one leg at a time. It's a great equalizer.

So here we are. Talk Radio is basically talking about things that... things that make for good political stink bombs.... but ignores the issues that truly trouble the nation.

What can we in a discussion forum say to one another that might set the tone for accomplishment, for enlightenment?

 

[L Chanon Gade]

Is it possible that the festering boil in the discussion groups is about the burst and drain, and maybe some healing can happen, and maybe we can become at least a little more rational.

Several weeks back SMG and I got into some debate over healthcare in America: Does it have problems? Does Obamachare help or make worse those problems. We began splattering each other with word-bombs. I suggested to him I would like to share my personal involvement in the "medical industrial complex' in past years, and the family connections I currently have in the world of medicine. (It causes me to absorb the news of the day and come to different conclusions than he does.)

He wanted no part of it. The facts speak for themselves. Just debate the facts.

I was distracted yesterday with some of the grimy, gritty duties of life (can you say 'dentist chair' boys and girls) and I come home last night to find this passionat plea from SMG that we should listen to him because he lives where 40% of America's coal is currently produced (I had already looked up his area and knew that little factoid!) and he had a grandfather who was a coal miner in WV.

Whoop-tee-doo! My first reaction was to fire back a response in the middle of the night: "I don't care about your experience. Just stick to the facts! We should just all look at the facts and be done with it!"

No, in life we all turn to folks with experience, with knowledge, with connections. If I have a question about my computer, I don't ask my wife's hair-dresser for computer advice.... I go to my friends with current day jobs in computers, or retired folks who are still in touch with their old computer friends.

So there is a tribe of us who find conversation via the computer screen useful, entertaining, or something. Maybe we can learn from all this. Maybe we can help each other understand what conversations our people, our nation need to focus on, and what conversation we are having simply because some Texas-style Whirlwind just came through the barnyard and threw a lot of dried something into the air and the people on the radio told us that is the important stuff we need to be discussing.

P.S. A note to SMG: My hometown used to be a mining town. My wife lost relatives who died in mining accidents, and uncles who left this world suffering from Black Lung Disease. During my years as an insurance and risk management person, one of the divisions of our company operated coal mines in Eastern Kentucky. I've been underground and watched them push that plunger just like in the old cowboy movies and bring down "a wall of coal". That is not an event you quickly forget.

So I don't want to hear your crap that you know more about the EPA and meddlesome government that the rest of us do. And though you claim to do gymnastics each morning.... the rest of us put our pants on daily.... one leg at a time. It's a great equalizer.

So here we are. Talk Radio is basically talking about things that... things that make for good political stink bombs.... but ignores the issues that truly trouble the nation.

What can we in a discussion forum say to one another that might set the tone for accomplishment, for enlightenment?

GRC, This type of person has made it their career to argue the advantages of kicking one's self in the ass and stabbing themselves in the back as the American way to think.

Lies. Slander. Vilification of decent people. To this commercial talk radio has degenerated.

Nature and commerce will fix this.....even in Wyoming. A lot of tower steel will go to scrap in the next few years.

Chan

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

GRC, This type of person has made it their career to argue the advantages of kicking one's self in the ass and stabbing themselves in the back as the American way to think.

Lies. Slander. Vilification of decent people. To this commercial talk radio has degenerated.

Nature and commerce will fix this.....even in Wyoming. A lot of tower steel will go to scrap in the next few years.

Chan

I can observe SMG and see his strong points... and see his points I disagree with. His ambitions and his goals are pretty observable, seem to have some reasonableness. As a citizen I have different political views than what he expresses, but when he goes to vote, you and I have no idea how he actually casts his ballot.

As for scrapping all the broadcast towers in America, Talk Radio is a small portion of the business. If every talk show in America were cancelled over the next 6 months, the industry and the towers would not likely be hauled off to the salvage yards next year. There is still this radical thing called "music" that seems to be catching on. And I hear they are now broadcasting play-by-play of sports... and then people talk about it on the radio. That might catch on.

But who the hell are YOU? What are your credentials to back up your claims? It's harder to do with the new software the forum uses these days, but for years when I was ready to have conversation someone for the first time, I would look through the archives and read EVERYTHING ever posted by that someone. In the past I have read through 400 to 600 posts of a person before engaging them in conversation. In your case, that is, so far, you present a pretty small library. It doesn't tell me much about you.

But your posts remind me of a conversation in a car dealership a few years ago. I was responsible for placing orders for new vehicles for our fleet of 150 or so vehicles. At the time all of our purchases were with one dealer and the "fleet manager" was a guy a bit too crusty to have on the floor for retail customers. I walked in one day and he was both fuming and laughing over a conversation from the previous day and he felt compelled to share the story.

He goes to the place of business of another fleet customer, walks into the office as says: "O.K. Which one of you is the mongoose?" I'm sure they were a puzzled as I was. "Every time you want to place an order, everytime I come over here, you treat me like a snake... so I assume one of you is a mongoose."

Car salesmen. You gotta love 'em!

So after reading through your posts, particularly those where you tangle with SMG.... I am tempted to snicker and ask: "How long have you been wearing the mongoose costume? But that would probably get me in trouble.

I quarrel with SMG over some political logic, and over the importance or lack there-of of Talk Radio, and to some extent over his discussion style, But he does play on the stage.... while some folks just heckle from the balcony from what I can tell.

Two-thirds of my radio career was in markets SMALLER that Gillette. You East Coast guys in this conversation with and about SMG are somehow hung-up on the idea that life only exists in the big city.... that legitimate radio only occurs in the big city. Surprise. We country bumpkins actually have radios in our pick-up trucks these days.

But you my friend.... are the big mystery.

 

[umfan]

Great post, GRC!

 

[FredLeonard]

I can observe SMG and see his strong points... and see his points I disagree with. His ambitions and his goals are pretty observable, seem to have some reasonableness. As a citizen I have different political views than what he expresses, but when he goes to vote, you and I have no idea how he actually casts his ballot.

As for scrapping all the broadcast towers in America, Talk Radio is a small portion of the business. If every talk show in America were cancelled over the next 6 months, the industry and the towers would not likely be hauled off to the salvage yards next year. There is still this radical thing called "music" that seems to be catching on. And I hear they are now broadcasting play-by-play of sports... and then people talk about it on the radio. That might catch on.

But who the hell are YOU? What are your credentials to back up your claims? It's harder to do with the new software the forum uses these days, but for years when I was ready to have conversation someone for the first time, I would look through the archives and read EVERYTHING ever posted by that someone. In the past I have read through 400 to 600 posts of a person before engaging them in conversation. In your case, that is, so far, you present a pretty small library. It doesn't tell me much about you.

But your posts remind me of a conversation in a car dealership a few years ago. I was responsible for placing orders for new vehicles for our fleet of 150 or so vehicles. At the time all of our purchases were with one dealer and the "fleet manager" was a guy a bit too crusty to have on the floor for retail customers. I walked in one day and he was both fuming and laughing over a conversation from the previous day and he felt compelled to share the story.

He goes to the place of business of another fleet customer, walks into the office as says: "O.K. Which one of you is the mongoose?" I'm sure they were a puzzled as I was. "Every time you want to place an order, everytime I come over here, you treat me like a snake... so I assume one of you is a mongoose."

Car salesmen. You gotta love 'em!

So after reading through your posts, particularly those where you tangle with SMG.... I am tempted to snicker and ask: "How long have you been wearing the mongoose costume? But that would probably get me in trouble.

I quarrel with SMG over some political logic, and over the importance or lack there-of of Talk Radio, and to some extent over his discussion style, But he does play on the stage.... while some folks just heckle from the balcony from what I can tell.

Two-thirds of my radio career was in markets SMALLER that Gillette. You East Coast guys in this conversation with and about SMG are somehow hung-up on the idea that life only exists in the big city.... that legitimate radio only occurs in the big city. Surprise. We country bumpkins actually have radios in our pick-up trucks these days.

But you my friend.... are the big mystery.

I am sorry to see you joining SMG, Eduardo and others here in what might be termed the "I'm Chevy Chase and You're Not" fallacy. In this fallacy, what is said is less important than who said it. And the importance of who said it is based on whether they work in the biz. People come here and give their opinions but under this fallacy, the validity of the opinion is not examined. Only whether they work in the biz. Don't talk about the opinion; talk about the resume. Criticism of radio is met with "you don't work in radio (and I do)."

Unless, of course, criticism comes from somebody who obviously does work/has worked in radio and then we get the "disgruntled ex-employee" corollary.

Right now, comments are being made about Gillette, Wyoming solely because SMG made is current employment and its location the justification of his opinions (and the basis for invalidating the opinions of others). He knows about talk radio because he's in it. He knows about environmental policy and climate change because he works in a coal town. I have worked where they make cars but don't ask me to fix yours.

I would have thought this kind of justification by authority went out with the renaissance but some hold onto it. They are people with authoritarian personalities. Those people also tends to hold right-wing political opinions. Which explains why radio is so overwhelmed with right-wing people and right-wing talk shows. Right-wing talk radio doesn't reflect the audience; it reflects the biz.

What's always amazed me is how little people who work in the rank and file or trenches of broadcasting (or any business) know about their business, their craft or their industry. Here is a business in which most everyone claims an expert opinion but which is addicted to hiring consultants. Even with inside experts and outside consultants, the industry's batting average of success is worse than organized baseball. The failure rate rivals new restaurants.

SRC says he admires farmers. So do I. Because they - unlike broadcasters - are willing and able to admit that their business is a "crapshoot." They operate under conditions of great uncertainty and each year they - literally (dictionary definition - I don't mean figuratively) bet the farm on future weather, future prices, future growing conditions and a mix of weather, growing conditions and chemicals with specific crops. Not broadcasters. No, they all claim to be experts and they all claim to have found The Winning Formula. Hint: There is none but they are all superstitious enough to believe in it.

 

[L Chanon Gade]

".....for years when I was ready to have conversation someone for the first time, I would look through the archives and read EVERYTHING ever posted by that someone. In the past I have read through 400 to 600 posts of a person before engaging them in conversation."

My god...you actually DID that? Scary dude.

Chan

 

[TheBigA]

SRC says he admires farmers. So do I. Because they - unlike broadcasters - are willing and able to admit that their business is a "crapshoot."

Hmmm. I guess you've never bought radio company stock. Because if you did, you'd read in the prospectus that broadcasting is a crapshoot. That's what companies tell potential investors. They explain how it's subject to popular taste, market forces, and government regulation. In short, there are lots of things that can affect business that broadcasters have no control over whatsoever. Just like the weather.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

".....for years when I was ready to have conversation someone for the first time, I would look through the archives and read EVERYTHING ever posted by that someone. In the past I have read through 400 to 600 posts of a person before engaging them in conversation."

My god...you actually DID that? Scary dude.

Chan

It's what reasonable, courteous people do.... isn't it?

Have you worked as a salesman... such as in radio advertising? Commercial Real Estate?

You learn everything thing about a client and his/her business you can before you formulate your sales story.

Why would I not give the same courtesy to you or to SMG or to anyone else in this discussion group that I want to have conversation with?

 

[FredLeonard]

Hmmm. I guess you've never bought radio company stock. Because if you did, you'd read in the prospectus that broadcasting is a crapshoot. That's what companies tell potential investors. They explain how it's subject to popular taste, market forces, and government regulation. In short, there are lots of things that can affect business that broadcasters have no control over whatsoever. Just like the weather.

Everybody tells that to investors. Legal boilerplate. Doesn't mean the executive ego and hubris doesn't blind them to reality.

 

[FredLeonard]

It's what reasonable, courteous people do.... isn't it?

Have you worked as a salesman... such as in radio advertising? Commercial Real Estate?

You learn everything thing about a client and his/her business you can before you formulate your sales story.

Why would I not give the same courtesy to you or to SMG or to anyone else in this discussion group that I want to have conversation with?

I have never - ever - met or dealt with real estate or ad salesmen like that. Car salesmen? Forget about it. Selling is all about psychological bullying; controlling the other guy.

And I've overheard those harrangues - I mean "sales meetings" - and I never heard one word about getting to know the client.

Rent "Glengarry Glen Ross."

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

What's always amazed me is how little people who work in the rank and file or trenches of broadcasting (or any business) know about their business, their craft or their industry. Here is a business in which most everyone claims an expert opinion but which is addicted to hiring consultants. Even with inside experts and outside consultants, the industry's batting average of success is worse than organized baseball. The failure rate rivals new restaurants.

How much do you know about YOUR business?

Oh, I forgot, we have no idea what business you are in... and you really haven't "pulled your cards away from the chest" to the point we have any idea why we should trust what you say.

I'm not as stupid as the cowboy I play sometimes. I tell a few war stories just to assure people that I have been out on the battlefield of business where the bullets and hand-grenades fly through the air.

Yes, unlike becoming a real estate agent, an insurance agent, a pilot, or a nursing home administrator, getting into radio as an employee or as an owner does not require that you pass a designated test. So there are some goof-balls in the business... at least until they run out of money. But while I was a broadcaster, I had a rule of thumb: I don't work for anyone unless they are smarter than me. (Yeah, I screwed up a time or two and found myself working for someone who had nothing to teach me, so I would move on. Did that more than once.

That's the backwards way of saying: There ARE some very, very smart people working in.... and OWNING.... radio.

Oh, I forgot. We have no idea what business you are in / work in. We don't know if you are smarter than your boss or not. We don't know if you have received a promotion lately. But you want us to believe we should trust what you say.... and discount what other people have to say... because they have a personality that offends you.

Maybe you could post a link to your resume.... and start a new trend here?

By the way.... what do you know about broadcasting? How many stations have you owned? Worked for? Walked through the front door of?

And in which large markets have you done Talk Radio?

I searching really hard to help you out here. There must be some good reasons why your opinions are better that the people you are putting down.