J
Jul
Guest
I'm wondering will Entercom move KYW newsradio and or Talkradio WPHT to FM? If that happens, what will Entercom do with 1060 and 1210 AM?
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Someday it will happen, at least for KYW. But we really don't know when because KYW still has good ratings as an AM-only station. And WPHT turns a tidy profit, on AM only. Even if its ratings aren't great, they're better than they were pre-Trump.
CBS and now Entercom have all these AM news stations in the largest markets. But only two of them, WBBM Chicago and KCBS San Francisco, have FM simulcasts. The others will someday have to simulcast as well. But for now the ratings are still good for KYW, WINS and WCBS NYC, KNX LA and WWJ Detroit. They're not so good for KRLD Dallas, which limits its all news hours to 5am to 7pm weekdays. But again, it makes a decent profit.
Entercom also owns a number of AM talk stations with no FM simulcast: WCCO Minneapolis, KMOX St. Louis, KNXT Las Vegas, KDKA Pittsburgh, as well as WPHT.
So for now, it's better to have these news and talk stations stay as AM-only operations, while Entercom continues to play music on its FM stations in those cities. The company hopes new listeners will continue to find their way to the AM dial to hear these stations... at least for the foreseeable future.
CBS and now Entercom have all these AM news stations in the largest markets. But only two of them, WBBM Chicago and KCBS San Francisco, have FM simulcasts. The others will someday have to simulcast as well. But for now the ratings are still good for KYW, WINS and WCBS NYC, KNX LA and WWJ Detroit. They're not so good for KRLD Dallas, which limits its all news hours to 5am to 7pm weekdays. But again, it makes a decent profit.
Entercom also owns a number of AM talk stations with no FM simulcast: WCCO Minneapolis, KMOX St. Louis, KNXT Las Vegas, KDKA Pittsburgh, as well as WPHT.
So for now, it's better to have these news and talk stations stay as AM-only operations, while Entercom continues to play music on its FM stations in those cities. The company hopes new listeners will continue to find their way to the AM dial to hear these stations... at least for the foreseeable future.
The wild card is the possibility of an end to the ownership caps. Some say that would mark the end of AM radio, as companies would be able to buy more FMs. That's part of the problem in Philadelphia. Which FMs do you kill for a simulcast? And once you put the content on FM, why would you retain an expensive AM signal?
Just asking for an answer here in general.
Electric bill-wise vis-a-vis billing-wise : Which station loses less, overall, after the utility checks are sent out -- omni WPHT or directional KYW?
* * * * * * *
My own thoughts are that, as long as KYW keeps on billing and keeps on showing well in the ratings, they don't need an FM. I know that it's always folly to say 'never', but a KYW simulcast on FM doesn't seem to be a priority.
Electric bill-wise vis-a-vis billing-wise : Which station loses less, overall, after the utility checks are sent out -- omni WPHT or directional KYW?
* * * * * * *
My own thoughts are that, as long as KYW keeps on billing and keeps on showing well in the ratings, they don't need an FM. I know that it's always folly to say 'never', but a KYW simulcast on FM doesn't seem to be a priority.
Last edited:
You're right. The priority is the KYW stream on radio.com.
With KYW, at a billing level of about $1,800,000 a month, the $6000* per month cost of running a modern transmitter (not including tower lighting and other power use, which they would have at any power level) is not a significant cost of operation. Even for WPHT, billing about $500,000 a month, that same power bill is still only about 1% of gross revenues.
* Based on 80% efficient transmitter and $0.128 per kwh national average.
Last edited:
KYW airs on 94.1 WIP-HD2
WPHT airs on 98.1 WOGL-HD3
I'm lucky to have HD radio in my car, so I have the KYW HD in my presets, and only use the AM if there's an issue with the HD signal.
I noticed that WPHT recently turned off the HD Radio on their AM signal. KYW still is broadcasting HD, though.
The thought that always runs through my head when this topic comes up (which it does about 4 times every year) is that AM stations that bill well but want to survive for as long as possible will need an FM presence sooner rather than later. If a radio company plans to eventually abandon terrestrial altogether, then focusing on the stream would be the cheapest and smartest way to go. But if the industry is really intent on keeping terrestrial relevant in the future, AM's are going to have to show up on FM. Younger listeners who know there's an AM band don't likely utilize it. Hell, I'm not a younger listener and I don't utilize it. On my way up to the mountains last weekend and on my way down to Ocean City, MD this weekend, I scanned through the FM dial over and over, often finding nothing I liked. Did I switch over to the AM band and start scanning there? It didn't even cross my mind.
The number of people who use AM will continue to dwindle as the population dies off. Sooner or later, there won't be enough people who utilize the AM band to make any stations profitable. If I'm an AM powerhouse with the potential to go on decades into the future, I'd rather make sure the younger generation knows I exist before it's too late to ever get those ears on me at all.
There’s also the question of how long the programming itself will remain relevant. Obviously there’s still an audience for news, as one example, but I do sometimes wonder for how long. I’m not talking next year or anything like that—and I’m quite cognizant of the multiple predictions of the end of newspapers that’s while certainly true in some cases have not disappeared entirely.
And then there’s political talk. Hot and heavy now during some unprecedented times, but how long will the angry old guys maintain their hold? Will a crop of slightly less old but still angry guys give the format a new lease on life?
And then there’s political talk. Hot and heavy now during some unprecedented times, but how long will the angry old guys maintain their hold? Will a crop of slightly less old but still angry guys give the format a new lease on life?
The problem is not the band but the format. An all-news or all talk station that migrates to FM will not be successful unless its content is relevant and attractive to, at least, the older part of the 25-54 sales demographic.
At present, neither format does particularly well in 25-54 either on AM or FM. Of course, there are exceptions: who would doubt the viability of a full coverage FM news station in Washington, DC?
But in general, neither format fits the listening patterns and preferences of the under-50 consumer. So adding FM or moving to FM may help initially, as the current 45-54 demo ages, it's unlikely that many of today's 35-44s will become listeners to today's style of all news or talk.
Good question. My view on the future of talk radio is it needs to focus more on lifestyle than national politics. NPR is showing that there are other topics to talk about besides the president, and it's working. There's also a big audience for talk content in podcasting, and WPHT needs to be developing podcasts.
As for news, the key for the future will be the ability for the format to translate to other platforms. One thing WTOP has done well is presenting the all news format on multiple platforms. The station's website and app gets more visits than local TV sites.
I thought it went without saying that in addition of appearing on the band people actually listen to, the product will have to evolve (kinda as formats have always done) to keep up with the times and to target the intended audience. I would still maintain however that being in a place they can actually find you is more important than how the format is presented. After all, regardless of how well or how poorly you do it, if you do it in a place no one goes, you're pretty much toast.
I believe the 2016 presidential election has shown us that the audience for that type of propaganda programming is not nearly as confined to old men as we thought. As they die off, so will much of the audience...but it's become obvious that there are plenty of younger people who share those ideals (for desperate want of a better term) but who were hiding it because it had become socially unacceptable to be open about it. I think the format will remain pretty strong for a good while and will likely end up migrating to FM in a lot more markets.
Certainly true there are people who hold the views, and no doubt some of them who aren’t angry old white guys listen. Is it enough to survive without an evolution? Perhaps. Perhaps the evolution already is beginning, at least somewhere. Right now, you have the galvanizing national leaders and spackled with local clones. Maybe in there is the next Limbaugh, who grows the format.
Maybe not.
It will be interesting to see.
Maybe not.
It will be interesting to see.
All true. As was covered in the News Radio discussion, the format itself will have to evolve for the younger demo as well as finding a home on FM if it's to continue being successful beyond the lives of those angry old men.
The whole HD on AM thing reminds me of the old AM Stereo argument. The FCC never chose a standard, so AM Stereo pretty much died with competing systems. There was no requirement for AM radios to have stereo capabilities. Until the FCC steps in to require stations to go HD, it's never going to work. Could you imagine if they didn't require TV stations to go digital?
Regarding 25-54 demographics: Dave E., how do NPR FM stations such as WHYY do 25-54? Any better than their AM news/talk counterparts?
As far as the published-on-the-Internet 12+ numbers go, a number of NPR FM stations seem to do quite well ... they're top 10 or even top 5 in their markets.
I wonder if this would push Entercom, for example, to take KYW to a primary FM signal in Philly: if WHYY reached more listeners than KYW? In some ratings months recently, WHYY was within half a point of KYW's 12+ number. Would Entercom want to endanger KYW becoming the No. 2 radio news station in the market behind WHYY?
As far as the published-on-the-Internet 12+ numbers go, a number of NPR FM stations seem to do quite well ... they're top 10 or even top 5 in their markets.
I wonder if this would push Entercom, for example, to take KYW to a primary FM signal in Philly: if WHYY reached more listeners than KYW? In some ratings months recently, WHYY was within half a point of KYW's 12+ number. Would Entercom want to endanger KYW becoming the No. 2 radio news station in the market behind WHYY?
And I'm assuming WHYY's audience is quite a lot younger than that of KYW.
- Status