WJIB has never reached Cape Cod, and probably won’t much better now. WNYH, right on 740, gives them a lot more trouble down there.
WJTO is the much better signal on Cape Cod, and I expect it still will be on 750.
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WJIB
- Thread starter raccoonradio
- Start date
WJTO is the much better signal on Cape Cod, and I expect it still will be on 750.
Did a search; it was to be WQTH 720 with 50kW of power (Bob Vinikoor) perhaps relaying WNTK, but it ran up against
zoning/ tower location problems.
Fybush 1997 column said tower would be in Lebanon (500 w at night).
NorthEast Radio Watch by Scott Fybush 2001--NH Supreme Court was to hear appeal; city of Hanover denied application for 3 towers. An early '02 column said Vinikoor won the appeal.
zoning/ tower location problems.
Fybush 1997 column said tower would be in Lebanon (500 w at night).
NorthEast Radio Watch by Scott Fybush 2001--NH Supreme Court was to hear appeal; city of Hanover denied application for 3 towers. An early '02 column said Vinikoor won the appeal.
Will WJTO get that extra half hour (or so) in the late afternoon that WHEB used to get? Sunset in Atlanta. Or do they have to request it?
Perry said on WJIB facebook "we will be launching the stream in the next few days!"
@fybush
Scott wrote this on the Boston Radio Interest mailing list - I am reposting it here simply to share his expertise on the subject.
Let me try to clarify (as best I can) somethe subject. of the questions that have
come up about what might be in the works for WJIB - and please note that
this is all informed speculation on my part, because I'm not involved in
whatever John G and Dennis Jackson have up their sleeves.
The AM side of things first:
There are two different ways things can go for WJIB once it's granted
its move from 740 to 720, assuming it can't stay indefinitely at the
current Concord Ave. site.
If the goal is simply to move to a similar non-directional facility, the
options are limited. While a non-directional AM is by far the easiest to
build out, you can look at the filing for 720 from Concord Ave. to see
that a ND signal can't be much more than 1000 watts by day if it's going
to be able to protect WACE Chicopee on 730 and WOR on 710. Same with the
13 watts at night and WGN and the ghost allocation for CHTN.
If WJIB is to remain licensed to Cambridge, it has to put 5 mV/m over
most of the city of Cambridge by day, and that further limits the sites
where it might diplex or triplex. As others have noted, several sites
are either gone or going - the old 1510 in Waltham, the WBZ aux tower in
Allston, the old WILD 1090 in Medford, and soon the 1430/1090 site
nearby. For a station as low on the dial as 720, you also need a
relatively tall tower for efficiency and to control skywave takeoff
angle, which might make the 1150/1470 site in Arlington challenging, too.
The FCC's rules do allow WJIB to leave Cambridge behind as a city of
license, since Cambridge is part of the larger Boston urbanized area. So
if a site change means Cambridge won't get 5 mV/m of signal but the new
signal will cover, say, Somerville or Everett or Chelsea, that's a
possible COL change.
There is, however, a second possibility. Let's not forget that
Garabedian started the long process that turned the old WGTR 1060 from a
suburban non-directional daytimer in Natick into a much larger (partial)
metro signal, which in turn also spawned the current 890. With the use
of a multiple-tower DA, WJIB on 720 could theoretically go somewhere
southwest of Boston and aim a more powerful signal north and east over
Boston while still protecting WACE and WOR. (Someone here noted that a
similar proposal was floated on 740, with a COL of Needham, before Bob
owned the station.)
There are a few possible sites for such an operation, including the old
WKOX 1200 towers in Framingham (later used by WRPT 650 and now dormant)
and the 890/1060 site in Ashland. I haven't done the research to see if
the number of towers, height and spacing at either of those sites would
provide any kind of viable pattern on 720. And then there's the matter
of cost: especially at the 890/1060 site, adding a third AM station
increases the cost immensely, since the accept/reject networks and
phasors for a triplex are complex. It could easily cost into the high
six figures for a project like that. Is it worth it just to get, say, 10
kW by day and 1000 watts at night in a narrow beam aimed over Boston? At
some point, you reach a threshold where it's probably cheaper to go to
Audacy's bankruptcy trustees and just buy 850.
(As a minor change, which is the only change the FCC will grant, a move
to a higher-powered DA site would still require a showing of overlap
between the new 5 mV/m signal and the 5 mV/m day signal that WJIB will
have on 720 from Cambridge. That somewhat limits how far west you could
go with a move.)
It may well be that John and Dennis have a plan here that I haven't
figured out yet, but it's hard for me to see how a high-power DA move
like this would pay off.
As for the FM translator, it's limited to the north by WGIR-FM, to the
southwest by the WMRC translator in Milford and now to the southeast by
the new WFNX-LP 101.3 in Scituate and WMEX's 101.1 translator.
However, it can still be improved considerably if it moves from Concord
Ave. I *do* have some firsthand knowledge of this one, because I was the
engineering consultant who put the 101.3 application together for Bob a
few years ago. We knew that 101.3 would have been a much better signal
if it went up higher, but Bob understandably didn't want the expense of
a lease on the Pru or Hancock.
Here's a weird thing about translators and ONLY translators: unlike all
other FM services, there's no height limit for translators. They can be
up to 250 watts ERP at any height at all, and they don't get derated in
power the higher they go. Out west, there are translators on
mountaintops in places like Albuquerque that actually have more power
than a height-derated class A (6 kW) FM would be allowed to use!
So, IF John G wanted to work out an arrangement to get the 101.3
translator up high on a skyscraper roof or one of the tall TV towers, it
might take a directional antenna to limit interference toward WGIR and
the other 101.1/101.3 translators, but over the city and nearby suburbs
the signal strength on 101.3 would be much better than it is now from
Cambridge. It's still never going to be a full-metro signal, but it can
improve! (There's not really an option to buy another translator - the
sale of the 94.9 and 96.5 signals claimed the last of the currently
available ones out there.)
I am very much looking forward to seeing what Dennis and John end up
doing. They're among the smartest radio people I know, and they deserve
our patience and some amount of privacy while they get it all figured
out. Once they've assembled all the moving parts, we'll know soon enough.
Finally: yes, the shifting AM frequencies will affect DXers. I grapple
with this often as I'm working on station moves for my clients, knowing
that I'm not making friends in the DX community with those added
signals. But that's been the paradox of the DX hobby for a century now:
as with trainspotting, it's a hobby that exists at the edge of a
business that doesn't really cater directly to it. As DXers, we take the
signals that are out there and do our best to find something new and
interesting to pick up as the signals around us change. I'm sure TV
DXers in 1957 were just as annoyed to lose reception of New York or
Bangor on channel 5 once Boston began using the channel!
Happy to try to answer whatever questions I can...
s
Scott wrote this on the Boston Radio Interest mailing list - I am reposting it here simply to share his expertise on the subject.
[Boston-Radio-Interest] WJIB applies for 720
Let me try to clarify (as best I can) somethe subject. of the questions that have
come up about what might be in the works for WJIB - and please note that
this is all informed speculation on my part, because I'm not involved in
whatever John G and Dennis Jackson have up their sleeves.
The AM side of things first:
There are two different ways things can go for WJIB once it's granted
its move from 740 to 720, assuming it can't stay indefinitely at the
current Concord Ave. site.
If the goal is simply to move to a similar non-directional facility, the
options are limited. While a non-directional AM is by far the easiest to
build out, you can look at the filing for 720 from Concord Ave. to see
that a ND signal can't be much more than 1000 watts by day if it's going
to be able to protect WACE Chicopee on 730 and WOR on 710. Same with the
13 watts at night and WGN and the ghost allocation for CHTN.
If WJIB is to remain licensed to Cambridge, it has to put 5 mV/m over
most of the city of Cambridge by day, and that further limits the sites
where it might diplex or triplex. As others have noted, several sites
are either gone or going - the old 1510 in Waltham, the WBZ aux tower in
Allston, the old WILD 1090 in Medford, and soon the 1430/1090 site
nearby. For a station as low on the dial as 720, you also need a
relatively tall tower for efficiency and to control skywave takeoff
angle, which might make the 1150/1470 site in Arlington challenging, too.
The FCC's rules do allow WJIB to leave Cambridge behind as a city of
license, since Cambridge is part of the larger Boston urbanized area. So
if a site change means Cambridge won't get 5 mV/m of signal but the new
signal will cover, say, Somerville or Everett or Chelsea, that's a
possible COL change.
There is, however, a second possibility. Let's not forget that
Garabedian started the long process that turned the old WGTR 1060 from a
suburban non-directional daytimer in Natick into a much larger (partial)
metro signal, which in turn also spawned the current 890. With the use
of a multiple-tower DA, WJIB on 720 could theoretically go somewhere
southwest of Boston and aim a more powerful signal north and east over
Boston while still protecting WACE and WOR. (Someone here noted that a
similar proposal was floated on 740, with a COL of Needham, before Bob
owned the station.)
There are a few possible sites for such an operation, including the old
WKOX 1200 towers in Framingham (later used by WRPT 650 and now dormant)
and the 890/1060 site in Ashland. I haven't done the research to see if
the number of towers, height and spacing at either of those sites would
provide any kind of viable pattern on 720. And then there's the matter
of cost: especially at the 890/1060 site, adding a third AM station
increases the cost immensely, since the accept/reject networks and
phasors for a triplex are complex. It could easily cost into the high
six figures for a project like that. Is it worth it just to get, say, 10
kW by day and 1000 watts at night in a narrow beam aimed over Boston? At
some point, you reach a threshold where it's probably cheaper to go to
Audacy's bankruptcy trustees and just buy 850.
(As a minor change, which is the only change the FCC will grant, a move
to a higher-powered DA site would still require a showing of overlap
between the new 5 mV/m signal and the 5 mV/m day signal that WJIB will
have on 720 from Cambridge. That somewhat limits how far west you could
go with a move.)
It may well be that John and Dennis have a plan here that I haven't
figured out yet, but it's hard for me to see how a high-power DA move
like this would pay off.
As for the FM translator, it's limited to the north by WGIR-FM, to the
southwest by the WMRC translator in Milford and now to the southeast by
the new WFNX-LP 101.3 in Scituate and WMEX's 101.1 translator.
However, it can still be improved considerably if it moves from Concord
Ave. I *do* have some firsthand knowledge of this one, because I was the
engineering consultant who put the 101.3 application together for Bob a
few years ago. We knew that 101.3 would have been a much better signal
if it went up higher, but Bob understandably didn't want the expense of
a lease on the Pru or Hancock.
Here's a weird thing about translators and ONLY translators: unlike all
other FM services, there's no height limit for translators. They can be
up to 250 watts ERP at any height at all, and they don't get derated in
power the higher they go. Out west, there are translators on
mountaintops in places like Albuquerque that actually have more power
than a height-derated class A (6 kW) FM would be allowed to use!
So, IF John G wanted to work out an arrangement to get the 101.3
translator up high on a skyscraper roof or one of the tall TV towers, it
might take a directional antenna to limit interference toward WGIR and
the other 101.1/101.3 translators, but over the city and nearby suburbs
the signal strength on 101.3 would be much better than it is now from
Cambridge. It's still never going to be a full-metro signal, but it can
improve! (There's not really an option to buy another translator - the
sale of the 94.9 and 96.5 signals claimed the last of the currently
available ones out there.)
I am very much looking forward to seeing what Dennis and John end up
doing. They're among the smartest radio people I know, and they deserve
our patience and some amount of privacy while they get it all figured
out. Once they've assembled all the moving parts, we'll know soon enough.
Finally: yes, the shifting AM frequencies will affect DXers. I grapple
with this often as I'm working on station moves for my clients, knowing
that I'm not making friends in the DX community with those added
signals. But that's been the paradox of the DX hobby for a century now:
as with trainspotting, it's a hobby that exists at the edge of a
business that doesn't really cater directly to it. As DXers, we take the
signals that are out there and do our best to find something new and
interesting to pick up as the signals around us change. I'm sure TV
DXers in 1957 were just as annoyed to lose reception of New York or
Bangor on channel 5 once Boston began using the channel!
Happy to try to answer whatever questions I can...
s
From the repost:
"I am very much looking forward to seeing what Dennis and John end up
doing. They're among the smartest radio people I know, and they deserve
our patience and some amount of privacy while they get it all figured
out. Once they've assembled all the moving parts, we'll know soon enough."
My "OK, boomer" wish would be for Garabedian and Don Kelley to get back together and re-create the early '70s WGTR. That was a fun station to listen to, at least when the automation wasn't playing the music and the DJ chatter at the same time.
"I am very much looking forward to seeing what Dennis and John end up
doing. They're among the smartest radio people I know, and they deserve
our patience and some amount of privacy while they get it all figured
out. Once they've assembled all the moving parts, we'll know soon enough."
My "OK, boomer" wish would be for Garabedian and Don Kelley to get back together and re-create the early '70s WGTR. That was a fun station to listen to, at least when the automation wasn't playing the music and the DJ chatter at the same time.
Jackson said on Friends and Lovers of WJIB FB group that the stream, to be
called Bob's Memory Station and a website and app should be up as early as next week
called Bob's Memory Station and a website and app should be up as early as next week
So it won’t be an actual stream of the over the air programming?
There was also an application for 720 in Billerica Mass. It was to be directional 1kw day and 500 watts night with very tight patterns North days and South Nights and the two patterns barely overlapped. It would have been a mess to hold an audience if it ever went on. A Catholic convent on Dudley Road applied for it and that was supposedly the site. The info still shows up in the FCC records as NEW. A humorous side note, Dudley Road on the Billerica-Bedford line is supposedly haunted based on urban legend. It is a very dark narrow winding road full of pot holes and passing a few old farms but also several new McMansions that have popped up.
It may well be a stream of actual programming on 740/101.3 with a nickname of Bob's Memory Station, but WJTO stays with Bittner estate and maybe Garabedian upon taking ownership may make subtle changes
for WJIB
("some of the early novelty records Bob spun may start to disappear and there will be new station announcements voiced by Garabedian himself."--NERW, via Globe article)
They have to deal with getting approved by FCC and the possible frequency shifts but the stream Perry mentioned awhile ago would I think be what is on air from Cambridge. Jackson says stream could be in a week or so, we'll see
for WJIB
("some of the early novelty records Bob spun may start to disappear and there will be new station announcements voiced by Garabedian himself."--NERW, via Globe article)
They have to deal with getting approved by FCC and the possible frequency shifts but the stream Perry mentioned awhile ago would I think be what is on air from Cambridge. Jackson says stream could be in a week or so, we'll see
WJIB app up at Google Play.Look for Bob's Memory Station. Asks for your zip code. Played a 50s song..then a bunch of scratchy record noises. Now instrumental of You Are The Sunshine of My Life. Now it segues into Copacabana.
Into: Bee Gees How Deep Is Your Love
Not sure if same as what's on WJIB--AND it says "Bath ME--Brewster MA"
Song info appears on the app.
May well be separate from what's on the air. No station top of hr ID, no
recorded Bittner
Into: Bee Gees How Deep Is Your Love
Not sure if same as what's on WJIB--AND it says "Bath ME--Brewster MA"
Song info appears on the app.
May well be separate from what's on the air. No station top of hr ID, no
recorded Bittner
Last edited:
Definitely separate from over air station ij this stream. Programs like rock oldies on Sat. nights
www.bobsmemorystation.com
App stores for android and apple
www.bobsmemorystation.com
App stores for android and apple
Or you could use a little shortcut
So....what I am hearing on the "stream"....is not what I am hearing on 740AM?
It's not the same stream as the WJIB 740/101.3 radio broadcast, but it's all from the same music library, plus some drop-ins of Bob's announcements.
After a long absence, I finally have an AM Stereo tuner in my truck again. My 1999 Expedition with factory AM Stereo needs work so I needed to undertake this project to hear WJIB in all its glory while commuting again.
Put a Sony XR-A33 in my 2014 F150. Used an antenna splitter cable and then have the XR-A33 hooked into the AUX input on the factory system so I have both AM/FM HD and AM Stereo with wide bandwidth. Its amazing how great this 250W station sounds.
Recorded it driving route 495 to 24 to 95 up to Waltham area. Faint reception starts around exit 12/Middleboro on Rt 495, steadily increases up rt 24 and by around Dedham single is very strong. Have one tweak to make in adding a noise filter to the power line to eliminate some ignition noise with weaker signals. The factory radio doesn't suffer from this and likely has that filtering built in.
The stereo separation is amazing. This is a hot little radio and I haven't used it since the mid 90's when I had it rigged up in my house. Glad we still have 740 locally, for now anyway, to put it thru its paces.
Last summer I recorded about 2 hours WJIB AM and FM side by side using an Sony SRF-100 for AM stereo and a Realistic DX-398 for FM stereo from a park in Watertown. I'd like to put an A/B comparison together like one I heard for KIIS AM/FM Los Angles done back in the 1980's.
Put a Sony XR-A33 in my 2014 F150. Used an antenna splitter cable and then have the XR-A33 hooked into the AUX input on the factory system so I have both AM/FM HD and AM Stereo with wide bandwidth. Its amazing how great this 250W station sounds.
Recorded it driving route 495 to 24 to 95 up to Waltham area. Faint reception starts around exit 12/Middleboro on Rt 495, steadily increases up rt 24 and by around Dedham single is very strong. Have one tweak to make in adding a noise filter to the power line to eliminate some ignition noise with weaker signals. The factory radio doesn't suffer from this and likely has that filtering built in.
The stereo separation is amazing. This is a hot little radio and I haven't used it since the mid 90's when I had it rigged up in my house. Glad we still have 740 locally, for now anyway, to put it thru its paces.
Last summer I recorded about 2 hours WJIB AM and FM side by side using an Sony SRF-100 for AM stereo and a Realistic DX-398 for FM stereo from a park in Watertown. I'd like to put an A/B comparison together like one I heard for KIIS AM/FM Los Angles done back in the 1980's.
Attachments
I tried putting a Sony XR-A33 in my VW about 20 years ago. WJIB sounded wonderful if I was very close to the Cambridge tower, or if I had the ignition off and the engine wasn't running. It had no ignition filtering at all, the worst ignition noise I heard from any AM car radio ever.