why would anyone listen to FM T-radio in Philly for music

[DavidEduardo]

People that want to hear their endless favorites will do it on their own, not rely on a medium that throws 15-18 minutes of advertising down your throats every 50 minutes, plays the same 200 burnt to a crisp corporate songs that few like anymore and endless, ridiculous chatter.

Give the "corporate songs" thing a break. There is no such thing.

Stations play the songs that listeners want to hear, and not the ones they don't.

Stations that can afford to do music tests, so the listeners "pick" the music and the station just plays the songs that have the broadest appeal and fewest negatives.

Stations that can't afford music tests fall into two groups: the ones that emulate the lists on stations in markets and areas like theirs, and the ones that thing (as you do) that we are all wrong and that there are loads of big songs from the Whitburn books all waiting to be played.

The copycats generally do well. The independent thinkers do OK if they are in small markets, but their owners leave lots of money on the table because they don't get the kind of results for advertisers that a better executed station would!

 

[TheBigA]

Give the "corporate songs" thing a break. There is no such thing.

Well there IS, but we're talking about the big international music corporations like Sony and Universal. They OWN almost all of the music, and they have a lot to say about what gets played. For example, I know there are a lot of songs the foreign corporations own that aren't available any more. Because of lack of interest, they don't make those files available for download, or songs available on CD. So the only way fans can hear those songs is through the original vinyl discs. That's how those foreign corporations control what we hear. They, like radio companies, are in it to make money.

 

[CTListener]

Well there IS, but we're talking about the big international music corporations like Sony and Universal. They OWN almost all of the music, and they have a lot to say about what gets played. For example, I know there are a lot of songs the foreign corporations own that aren't available any more. Because of lack of interest, they don't make those files available for download, or songs available on CD. So the only way fans can hear those songs is through the original vinyl discs.

Or through YouTube postings of the audio from those original vinyl discs -- pops and clicks and all -- by fans.

 

[TheBigA]

Or through YouTube postings of the audio from those original vinyl discs -- pops and clicks and all -- by fans.

The big international music corporations have the right to tell YouTube to pull those posts down if they object.

They own the content. Just because you paid for a vinyl disc doesn't give you any rights to the property.

 

[oldies76]

Well there IS, but we're talking about the big international music corporations like Sony and Universal. They OWN almost all of the music, and they have a lot to say about what gets played. For example, I know there are a lot of songs the foreign corporations own that aren't available any more. Because of lack of interest, they don't make those files available for download, or songs available on CD. So the only way fans can hear those songs is through the original vinyl discs. That's how those foreign corporations control what we hear. They, like radio companies, are in it to make money.

I agree. Also certain 12" versions or original radio edits from the 70's and 80's are getting very difficult to find. A great example would be the original radio edits of "Emotional Rescue", "Biggest Part of Me" and "Hit Me With Your Best Shot". Thankfully I bought a lot of those 45's back then and transferred them to digital. The only way to get certain versions, like you said, are the 45's or even radio station promo copies, like the Ambrosia single.

 

[KeithE4]

The big international music corporations have the right to tell YouTube to pull those posts down if they object.

They own the content. Just because you paid for a vinyl disc doesn't give you any rights to the property.

Don't the songwriters have anything to say about that? Even if they sold their souls... er, I mean publishing rights... for big coin, I'd think that they'd have the right to squawk if the royalty checks started getting smaller, or go away completely if their songs are removed from Big Music's catalog.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Well there IS, but we're talking about the big international music corporations like Sony and Universal. They OWN almost all of the music, and they have a lot to say about what gets played. For example, I know there are a lot of songs the foreign corporations own that aren't available any more. Because of lack of interest, they don't make those files available for download, or songs available on CD. So the only way fans can hear those songs is through the original vinyl discs. That's how those foreign corporations control what we hear. They, like radio companies, are in it to make money.

I think Oldies76 is speaking of "corporate playlists" as he has the idea that programming is quite arbitrary and that lots of songs that he'd like to hear played on the radio are excluded because station management conspires in some way to limit what is heard.

There are certainly songs that the big multi-national record companies have taken out of their catalogs for one or another reason. I've never run into a case where a station could not get any song it wanted to play, though. The unavailable songs are the ones where the hassles of management outweigh the potential for profit; certainly not a quality that would make such songs playable on the radio.

Beyond that, the songs that radio plays today are certainly less influenced by the record industry than I have ever seen in the last 60 years. With the principal source of income shifting to on-demand and downloads, radio is perceived as being less important than it ever was. In some ways, that has its advantages as there are far less promoters quacking "play my record" in the lobbies of radio stations.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Don't the songwriters have anything to say about that? Even if they sold their souls... er, I mean publishing rights... for big coin, I'd think that they'd have the right to squawk if the royalty checks started getting smaller, or go away completely if their songs are removed from Big Music's catalog.

Most catalog drops are due to limited or no sales, so there is not going to be a reduction: zero minus zero is, well, zero.

Of course there are occasional incidents where a song is dropped due to a legal issue with the publisher or other rights holder or involving plagiarism or the like, but those cases are relatively infrequent.

 

[TheBigA]

Don't the songwriters have anything to say about that?

That's an interesting question, and from what I can gather, the answer is no. And yes they're upset about it. This is why you see songwriters traveling around the country performing their own compositions, attempting to build their own fan bases. Some of the better-known songwriters are organizing tribute albums, where current artists re-record classic hits, to keep those copyrights alive and make them available publicly.

 

[DavidEduardo]

I agree. Also certain 12" versions or original radio edits from the 70's and 80's are getting very difficult to find. A great example would be the original radio edits of "Emotional Rescue", "Biggest Part of Me" and "Hit Me With Your Best Shot". Thankfully I bought a lot of those 45's back then and transferred them to digital. The only way to get certain versions, like you said, are the 45's or even radio station promo copies, like the Ambrosia single.

Most "radio edits" from vinyl days were not available to the general public. They were provided to radio either to comply with profanity requirements for airing or due to excessive length. So nearly all are only found on radio promo singles.

And lots of the remixes or alternate versions were one-shot releases, never included in albums or kept in the catalog. So finding them means finding the original collectors' vinyl pressing.

 

[TheBigA]

And lots of the remixes or alternate versions were one-shot releases, never included in albums or kept in the catalog. So finding them means finding the original collectors' vinyl pressing.

Collectors can find them for private use, but the DMCA was very clear to give ownership of the content to the copyright owners. So if a radio station streams one of those songs, they could be sued. And because streamers are required to document all recordings they play, it's easy for the owners to find out.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Collectors can find them for private use, but the DMCA was very clear to give ownership of the content to the copyright owners. So if a radio station streams one of those songs, they could be sued. And because streamers are required to document all recordings they play, it's easy for the owners to find out.

Interesting point. Since most streaming data consists of basic song information, it's likely that the submissions for DCMA might not even identify "radio versions".

And when digital fingerprints are involved, I wonder if tracking will misidentify the radio version as being the release version, or whether it will give an "unidentified" to the cut?

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

For what it's worth: I did NOT link or authorize that 'Listen Now' button on my post.

I've seen several other pop-up links on posts, too. This is not my doing (nor do I believe that it's with permission from the other posters).

So what's with this $#!+ ?

 

[CTListener]

For what it's worth: I did NOT link or authorize that 'Listen Now' button on my post.

I've seen several other pop-up links on posts, too. This is not my doing (nor do I believe that it's with permission from the other posters).

So what's with this $#!+ ?

Board ownership maximizing the revenue stream by selling our posts. The ads have been appearing on mine as well, and I did not authorize them. Right now, there are "CarGurus.com" ads on the posts of David Eduardo, of all people, but none on mine or anyone else's, at least on this page.

 

[gr8oldies]

Our friend Mr. Oldies considers it to be radio's responsibility to keep thousands of songs at top of mind awareness for every listener at all times, even if they haven't been played on the radio in decades. Math says that would be impossible even if the audience didn't tune out.

 

[ATSFGuy]

Well then I'll be very careful about the ones I pick, you'll hear them mostly on holiday weekends and special countdowns, that is IF I decide to do any....

I'll could maybe play a few every hour alongside the usual tired fare, like I said I'll be careful. People worry too much!

some may even be instrumentals like "Air Blower", "Sleepwalk", or "YYZ" by Rush

If it's a "Low Powered" FM, I don't need to worry about competition.

or I'll just put the "Director's Cut' with 3,500 songs on the stations website and play the "researched" 450-480 tunes that listeners want to hear.

XM's channels do have a lot of good stuff hiding in them.

 

[oldies76]

Our friend Mr. Oldies considers it to be radio's responsibility to keep thousands of songs at top of mind awareness for every listener at all times, even if they haven't been played on the radio in decades. Math says that would be impossible even if the audience didn't tune out.

Once again, I have never said "thousands" of songs, or "every" song that ever charted in the Whitburn books. I said, a COUPLE thousand with the majority being popular songs and the other 30% other top ten singles from the 1967-1989 period that would fit in about 2-3x an hour. Big difference gr8.

 

[oldies76]

Well then I'll be very careful about the ones I pick, you'll hear them mostly on holiday weekends and special countdowns

Great idea! That's what weekends are for and should be.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Once again, I have never said "thousands" of songs, or "every" song that ever charted in the Whitburn books. I said, a COUPLE thousand with the majority being popular songs and the other 30% other top ten singles from the 1967-1989 period that would fit in about 2-3x an hour. Big difference gr8.

A couple thousand?

You are kidding, right?

 

[oldies76]

A couple thousand?

You are kidding, right?

No, I'm not.

70% are popular tunes, or 1400. The others are reserved for weekends, specials and the like. You get to play far more titles, if you play less of the same ones everyday. No need to spin "Don't Stop Believin'" 5 times in 24 hours anymore.