TheBigA said:
In that case you should be proud to reveal the product of your labors, and give us a reason to care what YOU think.
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Why work in radio anymore?
- Thread starter Surfer
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In that case you should be proud to reveal the product of your labors, and give us a reason to care what YOU think.
A
adma
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Remember: when I mentioned some time ago the "lottery and gaming industry" manner in which the industry's increasingly prone to operating, he replied with "nothing wrong with that"...
I have long thought that the "A" in "Big A" stood for "absurd," because that is what 99% of his postings are anyway. Nothing but chest-thumping, and about how he is greater and more knowledgeable than all the rest of us mere mortals. Well, that last remaining vestige of what was once your credibility is now gone, big A, because you got defensive when asked to prove your credentials. Now you may not care what *I* think, but you obviously care what someone on here thinks; otherwise you wouldn't be bragging so much! Well, you are all hat and no cattle.
And if CEOs can't be bothered to listen to their own product, even for enjoyment, then why the hell do they expect anyone else to do so? If radio CEOs and GMs think of employees as their biggest liability, rather than their biggest asset, then they, not we, are in big trouble. After all, employees are the "face" of your corporation, and those employees represent your station to that station's few remaining listeners, and to the community that that station serves. If you kill employee morale, it WILL show on the air. (I've seen it done.) If you don't pay employees what they are worth, then you will get employees who are worth what you pay! THAT ought to scare you to death, because you get what you pay for.
http://www.krud.com
And if CEOs can't be bothered to listen to their own product, even for enjoyment, then why the hell do they expect anyone else to do so? If radio CEOs and GMs think of employees as their biggest liability, rather than their biggest asset, then they, not we, are in big trouble. After all, employees are the "face" of your corporation, and those employees represent your station to that station's few remaining listeners, and to the community that that station serves. If you kill employee morale, it WILL show on the air. (I've seen it done.) If you don't pay employees what they are worth, then you will get employees who are worth what you pay! THAT ought to scare you to death, because you get what you pay for.
http://www.krud.com
firepoint525 said:
Show me where I've ever said I am "greater and more knowledgeable" than anyone. Show me. One quote. Any quote.
firepoint525 said:
I didn't get "defensive." I simply said I'm not posting my credentials. And I explained why.
firepoint525 said:
Show me where I brag. Post one example.
Maybe you don’t understand the concept of a discussion board. Discussion boards are for discussions of issues. That’s what I do. I don’t care what you or anyone thinks, and posting my credentials aren’t going to change a thing. David Eduardo posts his credentials, and that doesn’t get him any better treatment here. So I choose not to go his route. If you don’t agree with my point of view, that’s fine with me. But don’t attack me personally or make a bunch of false claims about me because I don’t do what you want.
Now I just got whiplash, as your post takes a completely different turn:
firepoint525 said:
How do you know that they don’t listen to their product. Did a CEO say that at some point, either to you or in public? You seem to be making up a premise, and then drawing conclusions from it.
TheBigA said:
TheBigA said:
http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=152742.msg1294425#msg1294425
Per your own words:
I don't know much about small town America. But I know radio.
And, there's more. But it sure seems like you're putting yourself forward as an "expert". Of course, that's not the only one - the one that was recent and handy.
TheBigA said:
This conversation, like most conversations, has nothing to gain by calling each other names and trading insults. But inspite of my pompus bit of lecturing, I have to respond with this: We may not be able to go back and find a quote anywhere that proves you claim to know more. But go back and look at the tone of so many of your posts. Far too many of them seem to say: "How dare you piss-ants disagree with ME!"
Now, I need to get back to washing the windows in my glass house.
No, I understand perfectly well. It is you who doesn't understand.TheBigA said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
David Eduardo posts his credentials, because he actually HAS some! And no, I don't agree with everything he posts either. Far from it.
Now getting this back on topic. Radio has always historically been able to reinvent itself in the face of competition, whether it was from television in the 1950s, or music video in the 80s. But in the face of competition from Ipods and MP3s, what does radio do? It withdraws into itself, and becomes even blander and more boring. Radio has simply NOT risen to the challenges presented by these new listening devices. I read all up and down this board about all this new "competition" that radio has, and I think, wait a minute, radio has had competition for decades now! What's different this time? Radio is not trying this time. People have had alternative listening sources for years now. Albums, tapes, CDs. And these listening sources have been portable for about 40 years now, even those clunky 8-track tapes.
The difference this time is that radio is whining about the competition from MP3s and Ipods, rather than rising to meet the challenge. Instead, they are simply wilting in the face of competition, and are actually getting worse! Radio does not need to go back to the programming of the 1960s, as some here have sarcastically suggested. But they DO need to go back to some of the programming decisions that worked for them back then, like using competition to make themselves better, to improve the "product." And, yeah, it was "product" then, too.
And they also need to quit whining about the "recession." We're all in a recession now, including me. Radio's problem now is that instead of asking people what they want, they just tell people what they are going to program for them, whether the people want it or not. And people sense that, and respond by tuning out. It is that dictatorial sense of "we know what's best for you" that is turning listeners off.
Good post, Firepoint. Let me throw in a speed-bump or two about some of your points.
There is one thing radio always had for many, many years that it has lost. I don't hear many people talking about this when they lay out their logic about where we go next.
For a certain group of people, radio used to be where the sizzle was. Every kid in every village in American who had a brain that gravitated to "things of technology" was attracted to radio. Kids enamored by this marvelous technology went on to become engineers, research scientists, NASA rocket designers, highway engineers and all kinds of exotic employments. (We can't ignore the fact that some of them went on to drive beer delivery trucks and work the toll booth on the expressway.) No matter how good or how bad the programming on a station, a lot of listeners gathered around like fireflys to a porch light. Today other industries have left us in their dust when it comes to attracting the "crowd with geeky personality traits". Computers. iPods. Video games. There is more exotic content in one Guitar Center store than an entire state full of radio stations.
And on the artistic/creative side I could list a comparable trend. Part of my elevator speech on how to create a successful radio station begins with the logic: If you were a grain miller in the pioneer days, you didn't build your mill on top of the mountain because your wife like the panoramic view. You build in at the bottom of the valley where the stream will power your water wheel. When we were rural America, and rural back then carried meanings it does NOT mean today, radio was maybe the only available vehicle for those who would go on to be writers, public speakers, political leaders, etc. When I was in grade school, we had NO library... in the school or in the community. But today, even out in Podunk and Seedtick, it seems that EVERY school has a media center. Today's creative minds are not FORCED to seek out radio in order to have some stimulation.
All of that garbage to say: It is not enough to simply rest on the claim: Radio has always proven resilient and has bounced back from attacks from new forms of media/communication. You have to ponder: Is this the era when Samson wakes up and finds out his hair is too short?
There is one thing radio always had for many, many years that it has lost. I don't hear many people talking about this when they lay out their logic about where we go next.
For a certain group of people, radio used to be where the sizzle was. Every kid in every village in American who had a brain that gravitated to "things of technology" was attracted to radio. Kids enamored by this marvelous technology went on to become engineers, research scientists, NASA rocket designers, highway engineers and all kinds of exotic employments. (We can't ignore the fact that some of them went on to drive beer delivery trucks and work the toll booth on the expressway.) No matter how good or how bad the programming on a station, a lot of listeners gathered around like fireflys to a porch light. Today other industries have left us in their dust when it comes to attracting the "crowd with geeky personality traits". Computers. iPods. Video games. There is more exotic content in one Guitar Center store than an entire state full of radio stations.
And on the artistic/creative side I could list a comparable trend. Part of my elevator speech on how to create a successful radio station begins with the logic: If you were a grain miller in the pioneer days, you didn't build your mill on top of the mountain because your wife like the panoramic view. You build in at the bottom of the valley where the stream will power your water wheel. When we were rural America, and rural back then carried meanings it does NOT mean today, radio was maybe the only available vehicle for those who would go on to be writers, public speakers, political leaders, etc. When I was in grade school, we had NO library... in the school or in the community. But today, even out in Podunk and Seedtick, it seems that EVERY school has a media center. Today's creative minds are not FORCED to seek out radio in order to have some stimulation.
All of that garbage to say: It is not enough to simply rest on the claim: Radio has always proven resilient and has bounced back from attacks from new forms of media/communication. You have to ponder: Is this the era when Samson wakes up and finds out his hair is too short?
firepoint525 said:
I don't know what you do for a living, but nothing in your post jives with my direct experience every day. Every day, through a variety of means, we ask listeners what they want. We ask them what they want, and involve them in the process. Every day, we change what we do to adapt to what they want. Every day, we look into ways to better compete with other devices, and create the best radio programming available. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The bottom line is that whatever we do, the audience won't be giving up their other devices. We are simply one part of their media pie, and our slice simply becomes smaller as more choices become available. That plays a part in the bottom line because advertisers have more choices, and those other choices are cheaper. Less money coming in means less money to spend on programming. A 25% drop in income isn't a recession. It's a depression, and that's what radio has had this year. If you had your income cut by 25%, after the three previous years had income cut by 25%, that means you have 50% less money to spend. Now what do you do? This isn't just commercial radio, but non-commercial, public radio, where corporate giving is way down. You can say a lot of things about radio, but it's not for lack of trying.
Some radio station's websites have a place to submit requests, but I don't hear their overall sound changing. I posted one example on the Nashville board about a station that picked up a song that I had not heard them play before, but I chalked that up to another station (one that had previously played the same song) dropping it due to a format change.
Now to GRC: are you saying that radio isn't "hip" anymore? You may be on to something there.
Now to GRC: are you saying that radio isn't "hip" anymore? You may be on to something there.
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
I think that's true, and there's unfortunately not much radio can do about that. Today, the word is "digital," and radio isn't. It's all analog, and will remain analog, because the government isn't changing it. It's hard to be a thing of technology when everything else, including most kitchen appliances, have newer technology.
firepoint525 said:
YUP!
We can garnish that brash way of saying it with a lot of caveats and deviations within communities. Radio had it too easy for many years. TV tried to eat our lunch but we toughened up. After all there is a BIG distinction between how TV is "consumed" and how radio is consumed.
But today's new media has the audacity to come and dwell on what we thought was OUR PRIVATE TURF.... and too many of the people who in past years would be working in our "skunk works" to flesh out creative changes in the business are today working for Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. They are working to design electronic voting devices. They are working in hospital advising how doctors communicate with each other, how the hospital communicates with patients, etc.
Tell me what radio stations have come up with in the last five years that a committee of junior high students could not have dreamed up. Now that government tends to privatize garbage collection, there are competitors fighting for the privilege of picking up my garbage. Their industry demonstrates as much creativity (or more) than does the broadcasting industry.
So maybe picking up the garbage is today's example of "hip".
That IS what I am referring to, among other things. And by "requests," I mean suggestions that they add certain songs to their playlist, not me calling a station, requesting a song, and then expecting to hear it in the next 15-30 minutes. I haven't made a "request" like that in years, probably not since I was a teenager, and radio was different then.TheBigA said:
At my last station, where I worked overnights, I occasionally got calls from listeners complaining about our programming. Some were polite, some were not. Some complaints I actually agreed with, others I did not. I couldn't very well tell these callers that these were "filler" programs filling unsold airtime at night on a small AM station, and that the time was never likely to be sold, except possibly at DEEP discounts, because again, it was at night on a small AM station, and not enough people were listening at that time for broadcasters to justify buying the time, so it remained unsold.
I passed their complaints (when relevant) on to management, but I knew that because of the situation that I spelled out in the paragraph above, that it was extremely unlikely that they could (or would) change anything.
firepoint525 said:
That's also not what I'm talking about. It's vitually impossible for any radio station to please everyone all of the time. Mass media does not provide custom or individual service. And that's frustrating to a lot of people who expect that. But there's really no way to accomodate it.
TheBigA said:
I have a "STOW-ree" that from the ownership side tells the same situation and the listener expectations above. About 1950 the "movers and shakers" in a little cotton plantation town in Eastern Arkansas decide their town should have a radio station, just like everyone else was getting in that era. So ten of them formed a corporation, built a station, and hired a manager.
The manager was a good friend of the owner of the station where I was working and we heard the manager mentioned a number of times. I thought he had a dream deal. Got to run a station without having to come up with the capital to own it. Then one day it was announced that he had resigned and took a relatively significant position in state government.
Here is the story I got from him later. His life as station manager became a living hell. He answered to 10 independent thinking entrepreneurs who were in the habit of barking out orders, and being in the position of saying to their employees: "My way, or the Hi-way." The home phone of the station manager would ring all hours of the station manager with an irate stockholder on the other end: "YOUR announcer just played a record that I hate. I called him and had it taken off the air. (in the middle of the song.) If I ever hear that record on our radio station again, YOU ARE FIRED!"
A day or two later another stockholder on the phone with equally threatening demands. Maybe the station had sold some time to a local church that the stockholder disagreed with and he wanted only "orthodox" religion of which he approved on the station.
Yes, particularly in smaller markets, a station is wise to "keep and ear to the ground" and listen for suggestions and input. BUT, formalizing a process of asking for phone in suggestions and putting a place on a web site for submitting suggestions MUST BE DONE with care. The wording carefully chosen. Otherwise the listener is led to believe that if a suggestion is made, IT HAS TO BE IMPLEMENTED.
If you have your listeners angry with you, and you have your owners angry with you, YOU CAN'T WIN.
Can you imagine being one of the "real radio people" who supposedly will buy all the stations when they gfo bankrupt and spend a ton of money on them...once there actually are "local advisory boards" and specific rules about content, whether listeners actually want it or will listen to it or not. Every member of the "board" complaininfg about the slant ofg a news story, a talk show, a DJ comment, often from opposite directions. Then th listeners, advertisers and stockholders on top of that? Paging Dr. Kevorkian?
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
That's a good story. It reminds me of when I was running a non-commercial station. In public radio, we'll say just about anything to convert listeners into members. Over 90% of public radio listeners typically don't contribute money. So quite often, the pitchmasters will say things like "It's your radio station, you pay for it." Well I'm here to tell you that's a bad idea. Because after they contribute, you'll get members showing up expecting to be put on the air, or certain special treatment because they're now part owners. Or so they think. Then come the threats, when they tell you if you don't do what they say, they won't contribute, and tell others not to contribute, and it becomes a bad scene. And all you want is to get them to contribute $25. It's easier to get advertisers to buy spots.
gr8oldies said:
That's funny. You may remember that the FCC held regional hearings around the country a couple years ago. They may have visited ten cities, including Chicago and Seattle. I went to one of them and just watched. On the stage you had the five FCC Commissioners. They brought in some local panelists to speak about various issues in broadcasting. Then they opened the floor for comments from the audience. It was absolutely insane. Everyone was complaining about their radio stations. Mostly about silly things that no one at the FCC cared about. Lots of conspiracy theories about how the big radio companies were out to brainwash them. This went on for a while. PBS actually went to the one in Chicago and taped part of it for a Bill Moyers show. You can probably watch it at their web site.
I'm sure the Commissioners were exhausted from the experience, and nothing ever came from any of the hearings. But it gave them a small taste of what receptionists at radio stations go through every day.
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