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Why does WIIL not do better?

Actually, WIIL used to be a Chicago-market station - prior to changing it's COL to Union Grove (Racine Co./Milwaukee market) due to ownership cap issues that its new buyer had. However, this never impacted it's signal, which has stayed put. I've lived in this region for many years now and WIIL used to be in like a local when I lived in Buffalo Grove (right near Lake-Cook Rd) about 15+ years ago. It was receivable in downtown Chicago too. But, this was before the advent of HD radio sidebands and fill-in translators. I could get weak signals from Milwaukee FMs in Buffalo Grove back then too. Forget that now. Since then, I've gradually moved closer to WIIL's home turf - now residing about 6 mi west of it's tx.

Anyhow, yes, WIIL tries to super serve Lake, McHenry and Kenosha Counties. They do have quite a few listeners and I'd say that Lake County is probably their biggest audience. The fact is, the Chicago market is huge and WIIL is a rimshot that barely serves 25% of it. The .5 that they get isn't that bad if you look at it that way. And they usually do better than WXLC, which is actually heard on radios all over the same region, but which usually books ratings in the same neighborhood.

By the way, culturally it is rough to get Milwaukee people to listen to much of anything based in - or near - Illinois. They have an irrational hatred of the state and of all things Chicago. Even if it's only 1/2 of letters in the WI-IL calls and 2/3 of the ads. This is a cultural thing and I'm absolutely not making it up. They really think that Illinois is the source of their every problem and that Chicago (with the 18th worst murder rate) is more dangerous than Milwaukee (with the 6th highest murder rate). Again, I am serious; Milwaukee people will flip it off as soon as the first spot for a car dealer in Libertyville comes on. It's unbelievable.

So, WIIL won't get much listenership north of Racine either. Not ever.
 
BRNout said:
By the way, culturally it is rough to get Milwaukee people to listen to much of anything based in - or near - Illinois.
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I don't doubt this. I do find it a bit surprising that WWDV (WDRV "The Drive" Chicago simulcast) does as well as it does in the Milwaukee ratings. Last time I was up that way, I even heard it playing in a shop near Lake Geneva.
 
95.1's bays aim south and east. Their signal as a result is stronger to the south than it is to the north. Wasn't always that way. In general the ratings in both markets are about the same.

96.9's signal is aimed directionally to the north. Like 95.1, 96.9 was originally licensed to and programmed for Kenosha. The transmitter is still in Kenosha County. As a result of the antenna pattern, it has a stronger signal in Milwaukee than 95.1.

96.9 is also a huge reason Kenosha County is still part of the Chicago radio market. Aside from Hubbard, the rest of the Chicago market would prefer otherwise.
 
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JeremyAndrews said:
96.9 is also a huge reason Kenosha County is still part of the Chicago radio market. Aside from Hubbard, the rest of the Chicago market would prefer otherwise.
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Being part of a market is not a single station's decision or listening, It is based on the percentage of eligible market station listening in each country

For example, the Houston market often adds or sheds more rural counties based on how much of the listening in those counties goes to Houston market stations.

In counties that "straddle" two rated markets, the listening is evaluated yearly.

So the listening to 96.9 does not determine whether the county is part of one market or another. The listening to stations that are home to Milwaukee or to Chicago.
 
They were going to remove it in 2017. It would have required 9 out of 12 groups to be in favor of it. Hubbard was one that was not in favor of it. That's what I was referring to.

Here are the stories from Robert Feder explaining what I was talking about. Ironically 96.9's tower is in the picture

Robservations: Nielsen may drop Kenosha from Chicago radio ratings | Robert Feder

robertfeder.dailyherald.com robertfeder.dailyherald.com

Robservations: Nielsen keeps Kenosha on radio ratings map | Robert Feder

robertfeder.dailyherald.com robertfeder.dailyherald.com
 
Interesting conversation - I don't have much to add. The station is just in an awkward spot for both metros. The programming is also more local to Kenosha county in Wisconsin and Lake and McHenry counties in Illinois. I think they still have all local jocks, too. So, its a fairly niche market for this station.
 
FM stations, and AM stations, were usually supposed to serve the City of License. WIIL was originally WLIP-FM Kenosha. The concept of rimshots is good if there are fewer than normal stations in a larger market. But when there are so many stations in the larger market, a marginal signal doesn't have much impact in the larger city. WIIL has respectable ratings in Chicago Neilsen Ratings, but it is mainly from a small part of the market.

It looks like WLIP-FM was originally 4 kW from 255 feet from the National Building, 625 57th Street, Kenosha. This is roughly equivalent to a 3 kW 300 foot Class A, not at all unusual for many Class Bs at the time.

The National Building - 625 57th Street | Office Space

Check The National Building space availability, located at 625 57th Street, Kenosha, WI 53140. Get full listing information, property data, and more on CommercialCafe.com.
www.commercialcafe.com www.commercialcafe.com
 
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95 WIIL Rock's format is not a *mass appeal* format. It's a niche format. That alone limits its audience reach. Its signal is also hampered, because it transmits from a physical location almost smack dab between Milwaukee and Chicago, which means it can't really cover any of these cities with a city grade signal. IMO it would be short-sighted of them to only target McHenry County (if that's in fact where most of their listeners are originating from) with a 50,000 watt signal. Good ratings numbers or not, it all gets back to if they're making a profit after revenue.
 
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DrJerry said:
I don't doubt this. I do find it a bit surprising that WWDV (WDRV "The Drive" Chicago simulcast) does as well as it does in the Milwaukee ratings. Last time I was up that way, I even heard it playing in a shop near Lake Geneva.
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Maybe it is cause it works both in the city and the suburbs. Is WIIL Classic Rock?
 
DrJerry said:
I don't doubt this. I do find it a bit surprising that WWDV (WDRV "The Drive" Chicago simulcast) does as well as it does in the Milwaukee ratings. Last time I was up that way, I even heard it playing in a shop near Lake Geneva.
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Brian Bowers said:
95 WIIL Rock's format is not a *mass appeal* format. It's a niche format. That alone limits its audience reach. Its signal is also hampered, because it transmits from a physical location almost smack dab between Milwaukee and Chicago, which means it can't really cover any of these cities with a city grade signal. IMO it would be short-sighted of them to only target McHenry County (if that's in fact where most of their listeners are originating from) with a 50,000 watt signal. Good ratings numbers or not, it all gets back to if they're making a profit after revenue.
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Maybe it comes in in Chicago and Milwaukie with static mixed in on car radios. I think that’s why it gets low ratings in Chicago… bad signal in Chicago and south of it.
 
WIIL has not been Classic Rock in a long time. It's Active Rock. There is no signal in Chicago because there are translators on the frequency transmitting from downtown. The signal in Milwaukee is weaker because the bays aim away from Milwaukee.

It's core coverage is Lake, McHenry, Kenosha and Racine Counties.

WWDV is the opposite. It has a Classic Rock format and has a directional pattern aiming it's signal north toward Milwaukee. It has a good signal in the Milwaukee area.

WIIL makes money. Local advertisers. They do quite well.
 
Jeremy, is that the old WLIP and WLIP-FM tower shown in quite recent pictures of the Kenosha National Building, or is that just a flagpole? Trying to recall the History Cards, but it seems like WJZQ call letters were already on 95.1 on that building, before both moved out by Green Bay Road, four miles North of the Illinois Wisconsin border. If the bay mounting is optimized toward Chicago, the ERP would exceed 50000 watts in that direction, and likely less toward Milwaukee than 50000 watts, and it's only around 117 meters HAAT, significant for compromising LOS beyond the horizon beyond 25 miles or so, even over the Lake.

The WWDV DA pattern is only 50000 watts in the directions toward Milwaukee, though around 148 meters HAAT. It's only less than or equal to 980 watts at 160 degrees true, toward Chicago.


It's interesting to look at the History Cards on these short spaced stations, in light of the frequently changing FCC rules, especially Section 73.213. David has a lot of these old rules archived. He has the complete 1964 rules on worldradiohistory.com, essentially the first showing the early Section 73.213. Also, the 1960 NAB Engineering Handbook archived there has the rules from that time, essentially based on contour overlap, 1 mV/m F(50,50) protected for ALL classes (A and B), and exceptions for suburban, Metropolitan Area stations, particularly on second adjacent channels. Remember, it was the FCC that created short spacing with frequently changing rules.
 
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The Drive does well in Milwaukee because the music is so much more mass appeal, and the Milwaukee-Racine ratings areas realize that, just like they do in the Chicago area. The Drive is also a Classic Rock station, and most "Classic Rock" stations are at the top of the ratings charts. The Drive also has a great morning show team. Will Rock...well, uh, hmmm. There's almost really no comparison between 95 WIIL Rock and The Drive. Classic Rock listeners in Milwaukee probably switch between WKLH, The Drive, The Hog and WRIT. The *quality* of "Active Rock" music that WIIL Rock plays has limited appeal (truthfully, most of it is "garbage rock" IMO - yeah I said it). That's the main reason for their low ratings numbers. Put a more mass appeal format on that frequency and the numbers will go up. It's almost too late for that though, since the Chicago and Milwaukee markets have mass appeal music formats that super-serve their cities with better signals. 95 WIIL Rock now has to take what they can get. No one else is doing that format, so they have exclusivity to it. Rock on.
 
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Brian Bowers said:
The *quality* of "Active Rock" music that WIIL Rock plays has limited appeal (truthfully, most of it is "garbage rock" IMO - yeah I said it). That's the main reason for their low ratings numbers. Put a more mass appeal format on that frequency and the numbers will go up.
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The station has a 65 dbu signal that covers just 920,000 while the Milwaukee and Chicago markets are 11.4 million, combined. If you only have a good signal in around 8% of the market, then you can't possible have mass appeal.

Considering the population they do cover well, the ratings are actually very good.
 
95.1 went to it's current site in 1983 or 1984. I believe 1984. It was completely automated until 1990. They changed to Classic Rock, really deep album cuts in 1992. It was more Mainstream by the 2000s but didn't become full Active Rock until the end of the decade. It was automated Top-40 until 1990 or so when they took it live and rebranded it to Power 95. They were WXLC's direct competition. WXLC was Top-40 until the Mid 90s. One of the main reasons they took it live was because the morale was so low for the station. They even had the employees help build the studio they were in until it went to the mall in 2020. Before Power 95, I believe it was in a closet. Just reels

The station thrives on local car dealers. Numerous car dealers advertise on the station. They do remotes at these places. They do numerous remotes on a regular basis. Sometimes several in a day.

96.9 signed on from Kenosha as WAXO. Had an MOR format pretty much the entire time. Owners of 1500 AM in Zion bought it and changed the city of license and put the studio in with 1500. Also pretty automated. Calls changed to WKZN for Kenosha-Zion, on the air it was "WKZN Zion-Kenosha" after the city of license change. Bill Florian bought both the AM and the FM in 1983 to simulcast WNIB. He quickly sold off the AM. When Bonneville took over in 2001, 96.9 went to a 2 year simulcast of WTMX which was ridiculous. They went back to simulcasting 97.1 at the end of 2002.

In general, the ratings of the suburban stations are really not telling the whole story. They don't really need those ratings. They make money with advertisers in their local area. The big stations are probably not going to do as many remotes in these areas nor do they have as much of a connection with these areas. The local area is what these stations are targeting. They're not going to make much by trying to target Milwaukee or Chicago. In 95.1's case it's the area between Chicago and Milwaukee.
 
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