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WHITHER AM RADIO

O

OLDRFGUY

This is an opening about US Domestic AM broadcasting: Are there really any listeners? A follow on to the Shepperton Discussion on this site.

I heart operates 4 AM stations in the Cincinnati market. 3 of these are, for the most part, satellite automated. (WLW is still mostly live)

A friend (like me a former radio engineer) m entioned to me that there have been extended (up to several hours) of silent carrier on WKRC (which is almost all conservative satellite talk.) He listens to it - I don't.

I have heard (on several occasions, in the car) many minutes of garbled programming on WCKY where 2 sat feeds were on the air simultaneously. The only relief from the jumble was when the automation ran a local spot cluster. The last time I encountered this, I tried calling the station on their published number. Guess what - no receptionist to answer the fone - just a "Your message is VERY important to us - try our website."

I then called to WLW newsroom hotline (I am a former employee) and talked to a buddy who's still there. He told me there were no engineers around and he didn't know what to do about the issue. (the stations are all operated out of the same facility).

HOW COMMON IS THIS? It's easy to bang on I heart but I doubt they're the only ones with this programming feature. (I have heard many minutes of silence on a proximate NPR station as well, although it's an FM with an unreliable IP based STL.) I listen to almost no over the air radio (a bit in the car, a bit in my workshop because the radio comes on when I power up the workbench. Which I just as often unplug) One could argue that as a non-listener who cares what I think. One could also argue that given the paucity of my attention to AM (or over the air in general) that the fact that I am hearing this means the problem is much more significant - as I don't listen enuff to catch it all. (Like the argument for not keeping statistics on who dies from a disease. Then we're not as worried about it 'cuz we don't see all the deaths)

And if you are not a radio person (like most folx who look at this site seem to be) would you care? Wouldn't it just be easier to TURN OFF THE RADIO?
(same result - silence)

RADIO FOLKS: Are you aware of things like this? Do you see it as a problem? Do you feel that your mechanical solutions to the problem (silence sensors) are really protecting you business interests? Is this common? And if so does it represent a threat to the viability of the medium?
 
This was even more common 15 years ago, back when we had to manually change the clock in the EAS and computers to or from Daylight Savings Time.
 
I understand the economics arguement. I just disagree with it. If your programming isn't valuable enuff for you to ensure it reaches its intended audience then you should examine your business model. (so they'll listen to both it and THE ADS YOU SELL)

In the 1870's the B&O railroad tried to save money by slowing down the trains (less fuel burned, less wear and tear on the track and equipment). Bad move, when your business is carrying things from place to place. Almost put them out of bizness. Turns out if you give better service (carry things faster if you run trains) you MAKE MORE MONEY (so you can AFFORD to fix the track).

But the question I pose is more immediate: How much of a problem is this sort of thing in today's broadcasting bizness. And is it seen as a problem by broadcasters?
 
OLDRFGUY said:
that's why I always referred to them as "BORED" as opposed to board ops
Click to expand...

I agree...most of them spend their time with the volume down, looking at their phones.

So it's not as though they don't exist.

OLDRFGUY said:
How much of a problem is this sort of thing in today's broadcasting bizness. And is it seen as a problem by broadcasters?
Click to expand...

It happens everywhere. It happens at Sirius, Spotify, and Comcast. Is it seen as a problem? It is when I call the cable company and refuse to pay because the channel I wanted to watch wasn't there.

It's not a new problem. Larry King used to talk about working at a station in Florida, putting a long record on, leaving the studio for some afternoon delight, and getting locked out of the studio. So the record ends and the audience heard the sound of the needle going around at the end of the record.
 
The anecdotes are funny, and I have quite a few funny stories along these lines myself after several decades iin the biz at both local stations and network originators.

But the reasons for the post is that it is my impression that this is a GROWING problem for over the air radio
 
OLDRFGUY said:
The anecdotes are funny, and I have quite a few funny stories along these lines myself after several decades iin the biz at both local stations and network originators.

But the reasons for the post is that it is my impression that this is a GROWING problem for over the air radio
Click to expand...
I think you are correct. It's not that these problems are new; However back in the old days, someone was there who could fix it quickly.
 
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OLDRFGUY said:
This is an opening about US Domestic AM broadcasting: Are there really any listeners? A follow on to the Shepperton Discussion on this site.

I heart operates 4 AM stations in the Cincinnati market. 3 of these are, for the most part, satellite automated. (WLW is still mostly live)

A friend (like me a former radio engineer) m entioned to me that there have been extended (up to several hours) of silent carrier on WKRC (which is almost all conservative satellite talk.) He listens to it - I don't.

I have heard (on several occasions, in the car) many minutes of garbled programming on WCKY where 2 sat feeds were on the air simultaneously. The only relief from the jumble was when the automation ran a local spot cluster. The last time I encountered this, I tried calling the station on their published number. Guess what - no receptionist to answer the fone - just a "Your message is VERY important to us - try our website."

I then called to WLW newsroom hotline (I am a former employee) and talked to a buddy who's still there. He told me there were no engineers around and he didn't know what to do about the issue. (the stations are all operated out of the same facility).

HOW COMMON IS THIS?
Click to expand...
Depending on the market, it's becoming more common. Since the elimination of local studio rules and public files on line, most larger groups are moving toward markets becoming a transmission site with sales working out of their homes. AM stations in particular, appeal to an older audience less interesting to advertisers. Since most groups still carry debt from their AM stations, they're essentially being kept alive. However, with no new listeners coming to AM, the audience is literally dying off.
OLDRFGUY said:
And if you are not a radio person (like most folx who look at this site seem to be) would you care? Wouldn't it just be easier to TURN OFF THE RADIO?
(same result - silence)
Click to expand...
Radio hobbyists on this site (affectionately called Radio Nerds) get outraged when they hear silence on stations. One could argue, Radio Nerds are not the general public.
OLDRFGUY said:
RADIO FOLKS: Are you aware of things like this? Do you see it as a problem? Do you feel that your mechanical solutions to the problem (silence sensors) are really protecting you business interests? Is this common? And if so does it represent a threat to the viability of the medium?
Click to expand...
I personally feel since the pandemic, the general public is less concerned about hearing silence or grunge when they push a preset on their radio. They've become used to delays from stream buffering. Radio to most is just another stream. Heck, it's not like some real human would say: Dammit! WXYZ is silent today, I'll never listen to them again!
 
Kelly A said:
I personally feel since the pandemic, the general public is less concerned about hearing silence or grunge when they push a preset on their radio. They've become used to delays from stream buffering. Radio to most is just another stream. Heck, it's not like some real human would say: Dammit! WXYZ is silent today, I'll never listen to them again!
Click to expand...
More like "Dammit! WXYZ is silent today. Hope they fix whatever's wrong soon." And then you push the preset for another station you like and listen to that for a while, checking back on WXYZ when you hear an ad or a song you don't like.
 
TheBigA said:
It's not a new problem. Larry King used to talk about working at a station in Florida, putting a long record on, leaving the studio for some afternoon delight, and getting locked out of the studio. So the record ends and the audience heard the sound of the needle going around at the end of the record.
Click to expand...
SIDEBAR: One of Kermit Schaeffer's "Bloopers" books details a board op at a big station running Sunday religious shows from ETs (Electrical Transcriptions... recordable acetate records... for those too young to remember).

The board op was out for a smoke and bathroom break. The entrance door self locked. His keys were in his jacket in the studio...

The sermon reach the preacher saying that sinners would "go to Hell" and stuck.

Until someone arrived to open the door, the station said, over and over, "go to Hell".
 
Harvey_Dogg said:
I think you are correct. It's not that these problems are new; However back in the old days, someone was there who could fix it quickly.
Click to expand...
Not always. See my prior post.

Everyone I know who has been an announcer, jock or board op has had the same dream over and over where they are locked out of the studio.

Some of us, even with non-locking studio doors, kept an old phone book at hand and we blocked the door if we left for the bathroom or something else.

It happened that often!

Worst I ever heard was a guy in a big northern city who went to the roof to smoke. The door locked or jammed. He was on the roof, in 20° weather complete with snow long before cellulars existed. Fortunately, he banged on the door every minute with a cement block and finally someone heard and released him.
 
Kelly A said:
Depending on the market, it's becoming more common. Since the elimination of local studio rules and public files on line, most larger groups are moving toward markets becoming a transmission site with sales working out of their homes.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen that at all. In fact I'm seeing the complete opposite. But as you say, "depending on the market."
 
DavidEduardo said:
SIDEBAR: One of Kermit Schaeffer's "Bloopers" books details a board op at a big station running Sunday religious shows from ETs (Electrical Transcriptions... recordable acetate records... for those too young to remember).

The board op was out for a smoke and bathroom break. The entrance door self locked. His keys were in his jacket in the studio...

The sermon reach the preacher saying that sinners would "go to Hell" and stuck.

Until someone arrived to open the door, the station said, over and over, "go to Hell".
Click to expand...
That board op was Dan Rather. The station was broadcasting "Go to Hell" over and over. The record got stuck. He had slipped out for a snack. link
 
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As long as the programming is on the air during peak hours and the station is either still making money, or isn't losing a ton of it if it's in a cluster, it's not a problem. It's the economics of radio. Heck, it's the economics of American business. Ever gone to a supermarket or box store and seen the checkers being replaced by one person standing next to 12 or 15 self checkouts?

In the 2000s the local drugstore had at least 3-4 people working, even overnights, including a night manager. Now it's 2 people tops during a shift, with perhaps a day manager too, and they cut their hours, closing at 10 or 11 p.m. instead of keeping to the 24 hour schedule that they had for their first 19 or 20 years.... as well as cutting some of their inventory.

The business model has changed.
 
IF YOU DON'T CARE ENOUGH ABOUT YOU PROGRAMMING OR COMMERCIALS to give some supervisory attention to it, why should anybody else?

If you own or run the radio station, this is presumably your income. How much do you care about it?

IF this way of doing (or not doing) things is the new BIZNESS MODEL, it might be worth a serious resasessment of that model. I wouldn't have paid for ads on that. I listened as a fascinated professional - it was so bad that it was captivating. (Because their regular programming is not of any interest to me.) Wonder how much audience was there?

On the other hand, regarding bizness models: Maybe that's all radio is worth anymore. Fire everyone so no payroll. And if the computer or sat feed bombs its NO TRUBBA since nobody's really listening anymore anyway. Better not let any of your advertising customers discover that.
 
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