Where Oldies Music Still Lives

[gr8oldies]

I would have to say, "dream on", if you think this station is going to take the internet by storm and be profitable. It's not like nobody else is doing the "everything that was ever recorded" format (though a lot of those hobby operations are going to be going by the wayside).

 

[DavidEduardo]

Question for the forum professionals: IF (a big IF) WKCE could gain enough Internet listeners nationally, in the correct demo, would there be an interest by agencies in buying national ads?

I realize their "Midcentury Music" might not draw the preferred 18-x demo but what number might make it profitable enough to keep the lights on?

Network radio and streaming are generally bought in big-delivery packages. The standards in streaming are set by Pandora, with nearly 100 million regular users and over 2,000,000 listening at any time. Ads can be inserted in any set of streams locally, regionally and nationally.

The possibility that a little daytime station could compete on that level is not even something that qualifies as a long shot.

 

[gr8oldies]

It reminds me of the incessant spam posts "My brother-in-law's sister's cousin twice removed makes $270000 a minute with Google adwords!" Is there money to be made on a website? Sure. Can you get millions of hits? Different story.

Network radio and streaming are generally bought in big-delivery packages. The standards in streaming are set by Pandora, with nearly 100 million regular users and over 2,000,000 listening at any time. Ads can be inserted in any set of streams locally, regionally and nationally.

The possibility that a little daytime station could compete on that level is not even something that qualifies as a long shot.

 

[michael hagerty]

Some AM stations have to resort to the dollar a spot rate and try to sell frequency to make it.

And think about that for a second. Assuming 18 minutes of spots an hour...that's $18 an hour the station is billing. There's no money in nights or weekends, so figure 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. and give them a full sell-out of 18 spots every hour, five days a week, 52 weeks a year (which is generous)...and you've got $56,160 in gross income for the station as a whole.

Even automating, once you pay necessary expenses, there's not a lot there for the guy who owns/runs the station.

 

[firepoint525]

I recall visiting Nashville when my folks lived there. I knew a few AM operators in the adjacent counties. Indeed a 1kw was pretty noisy at 20 miles and 500 watter at 15 miles, so much static the average person wouldn't listen. And those I knew barely kept the lights on 15 years ago. One station made about $2,500 a month (Southern Gospel) while another averaged $3,500 to $4,000. The most successful billed about $5,000. The later two were classic country. Spot rates were low too: $3 at two stations while one station sold a $375 package for 5 thirties a day, 7 days a week. In each case it was a one or two person staff and a computer. If the operators of the Southern Gospel station didn't have the station in their home, I doubt they'd survive.

Do you know what stations these are (or were)? I live in a bedroom community county near Nashville, and the little AM station here (in this county) is the only station BASED in this county. But most of the time, their signal is crap here. They are 24/7, but I am guessing that their night-time programming is solely for 'net listeners. No, I don't know how he pays for it.

 

[TheFonz]

...................... the "everything that was ever recorded" format......

It's so sad that Oldies radio has led people like yourself to believe that only the songs THEY decided to play for the past 40 years are relevant. Those of us who remember Top 40 radio know that 99% of the songs on WKCE's playlist made the Billboard charts and were played on radio in the 1950s & 1960s.

 

[landtuna]

Those of us who remember Top 40 radio know that 99% of the songs on WKCE's playlist made the Billboard charts and were played on radio in the 1950s & 1960s.

Even the Country songs? I can't say I remember most of those.

 

[b-turner]

Firepoint525, I sent a personal message to you. I'm not sure the owners might want that info revealed by call letters. The 'noise level' along many roads around Nashville kills AM with all the above ground electrical lines.

 

[TheFonz]

Even the Country songs? I can't say I remember most of those.

Johnny Cash, Don Gibson, Bobby Bare, Sonny James, Ferlin Husky, Johnny Horton, George Hamilton IV, Jim Reeves, Stonewall Jackson, Claude King, Wanda Jackson, Faron Young, Marty Robbins and Eddy Arnold are just some examples of Country artists whose records made the Pop charts in the '50s & '60s. WKCE does play some rare country. Those songs are in the 1% of songs on their playlist that didn't make the Pop charts, but probably made the Country charts.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Those songs are in the 1% of songs on their playlist that didn't make the Pop charts, but probably made the Country charts.

And that leaves unaddressed the fact that there is no evidence that there is any reason to believe that just because a song made the charts 60 years ago merits playing today.

 

[TheBigA]

Those of us who remember Top 40 radio know that 99% of the songs on WKCE's playlist made the Billboard charts and were played on radio in the 1950s & 1960s.

Do you remember every meal you ever ate? Particularly when you were in your teens and 20s? That food kept you alive then. So it was very important.

Would you like to be forced to eat the same exact food now? Including the alcohol? In the same quantities? Over and over again? Maybe you would. But not me.

 

[KeithE4]

It's so sad that Oldies radio has led people like yourself to believe that only the songs THEY decided to play for the past 40 years are relevant. Those of us who remember Top 40 radio know that 99% of the songs on WKCE's playlist made the Billboard charts and were played on radio in the 1950s & 1960s.

But thousands of songs that were Top 40 hits between the mid '50s and early '70s are just too many for one station to play. Wouldn't it make more sense to restrict the playlist to the Billboard Top 10 or even the Top 5 at any given time during that period? At least the chances would be much better that the listeners would remember the song.

I like the obscure stuff myself, because I'm a fan of music from that period, but I know better. It won't sell. I think of an oldies staton as being somewhat similar to a bar band that plays music from the same era (and yes, I've heard quite a few good ones over the years). The band is only going to play songs that its audience is familiar with, and not obscure songs from the same period. That means lots of Elvis, Buddy Holly, and Fats Domino, and no regional hits from Philly or LA that nobody outside those areas has ever heard of. Those songs may be good, but they won't keep people dancing and drinking in the bar.

A classic rock cover band is an even better example. Most of the ones I've seen stick with the familiar 1968-85 commercial stuff. In other words, lots of AC/DC, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Eagles, and Led Zeppelin, and little-to-no Uriah Heep, Yardbirds, Cream, or Strawberry Alarm Clock -- no matter how big those bands were or how great their music was back then. Unfamiliarity drives most customers away.

 

[landtuna]

Johnny Cash, Don Gibson, Bobby Bare, Sonny James, Ferlin Husky, Johnny Horton, George Hamilton IV, Jim Reeves, Stonewall Jackson, Claude King, Wanda Jackson, Faron Young, Marty Robbins and Eddy Arnold are just some examples of Country artists whose records made the Pop charts in the '50s & '60s. WKCE does play some rare country. Those songs are in the 1% of songs on their playlist that didn't make the Pop charts, but probably made the Country charts.

I do remember most of the singers you mention but those I was referring to are what I would call obscure (Bluegrass etc.). At least they were not played on T-40 radio in my market back then.

 

[DavidEduardo]

It's so sad that Oldies radio has led people like yourself to believe that only the songs THEY decided to play for the past 40 years are relevant. Those of us who remember Top 40 radio know that 99% of the songs on WKCE's playlist made the Billboard charts and were played on radio in the 1950s & 1960s.

We have been over this dozens of times, but here it is again:

Radio plays today's hits. Even when they play oldies, radio generally only plays the songs that people want to hear today.

Most people no longer want to hear most of the songs they liked or at least tolerated 50 or 60 years ago. There are relatively few that are still hits today. Most "stiffed out" many decades ago.

 

[CTListener]

A classic rock cover band is an even better example. Most of the ones I've seen stick with the familiar 1968-85 commercial stuff. In other words, lots of AC/DC, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Eagles, and Led Zeppelin, and little-to-no Uriah Heep, Yardbirds, Cream, or Strawberry Alarm Clock -- no matter how big those bands were or how great their music was back then. Unfamiliarity drives most customers away.

How did they enter the conversation? They were a faux-psychedelic singles-oriented outfit that never got album-rock/progressive airplay. "Incense and Peppermints" was a big Top 40 hit, then they put out several singles that didn't do nearly as well, then they disappeared. They never went on to anything big in the "serious" rock scene.

 

[KeithE4]

How did they enter the conversation? They were a faux-psychedelic singles-oriented outfit that never got album-rock/progressive airplay. "Incense and Peppermints" was a big Top 40 hit, then they put out several singles that didn't do nearly as well, then they disappeared. They never went on to anything big in the "serious" rock scene.

All true, but it shows that at least two people remember them. But don't you DARE diss the Balloon Farm!

But I think you get my point.

 

[CTListener]

All true, but it shows that at least two people remember them. But don't you DARE diss the Balloon Farm!

Wouldn't dare, even though I always confuse them with Bubble Puppy.

Actually, "Incense and Peppermints" was a mainstay of many oldies stations well into the '90s. Maybe it wouldn't be recognized if the people listening to that cover band have only been listening to album rock or, later, classic rock, but oldies radio fans would recognize it even if the song is from before their time.

 

[TheBigA]

Actually, "Incense and Peppermints" was a mainstay of many oldies stations well into the '90s.

Right around the time the audience for that kind of music started to age out of the demo.

 

[gr8oldies]

You know what the bank doesn't want to hear when the note payment is due? "I wanted to play everything that ever charted since 1955 for my discerning oldies collectors--all 14 of them, so that's why I'm late" . There really is only one song that matters. That's the one you're playing right now. I'm afraid the owner of WKCE has a format and a station that's going to not make him any money, ruin his credit and cause a lot of stress.

 

[KeithE4]

Wouldn't dare, even though I always confuse them with Bubble Puppy.

The Bubble Puppy stole the title of their hit song from Granny of The Beverly Hillbillies. "Hot smoke and sassafrass, Jethro, cain't yew do anything right?" The Balloon Farm had "A Question of Temperature" as the medley of their greatest hit.

Actually, "Incense and Peppermints" was a mainstay of many oldies stations well into the '90s. Maybe it wouldn't be recognized if the people listening to that cover band have only been listening to album rock or, later, classic rock, but oldies radio fans would recognize it even if the song is from before their time.

Alice Cooper would be a mention in this context -- far more hits, both as "them" and "him." Or would you have preferred Thunderclap Newman?