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What will Salem do when...
- Thread starter Surfer
- Start date
Surfer said:
On 104.7 The Fish in Atlanta, the music format is clearly being tweaked to appeal to a younger audience. They appear to have dropped all "classic" CCM in favor of modern bubblegum CCM songs that, aside from their lyrics, sound like the kind of pop pap produced by the likes of the Jonas Brothers or any of the various female pop tarts.
As for their spoken word format stations, there is the fact that as people mature, they continue to grow and change. As people age into their 40's and 50's, it is not unusual for them to find interesting spoken word programming to be more engaging than music. There are plenty of talented individuals ready to move into the studios left vacant by those who came before them moving on to their rewards. So, there's no shortage of fresh listeners and broadcasters for Mr. Atsinger. Of course, by then, Mr. Atsinger might also be replaced by someone younger.
You can run those same programs decades after the preacher dies, as happens with J. Vernon McGee and others. I never found listening to preacher show after preacher show after preacher show to be all that interesting, but some do. Maybe younger preachers with more of a contemporary sound and approach, who knows?
I think you are onto something with the younger preachers being the trend and I also think programs that are more like Jay Sekulow Live...a good show imho...but then I also wonder how all the changes in the culture of the church will impact how Christian radio is done.
I'd be more concerned about Salem's large portfolio of AM stations competing with the increased use of podcasting (which is a near-perfect delivery vehicle for teaching programs), and the general demise of AM radio. If nothing else, talk and teaching are a perfect fall back for their FM stations that may be playing music today.
William_Yeager said:
Podcasts are definitely a better way to deliver teaching programs. For one thing, there's no 25-minute time limit, so sermons don't have to be broken up, and you don't need an announcer to open and close each episode, talk about the topic being discussed, ask for donations, etc., unless you want to. Plus, the money saved by not paying radio stations to carry a program can be put to use in other parts of a ministry.
I think the question of what happens when Salem's older audience eventually dies applies as well with stations that play Southern Gospel or traditional music. They have to either adapt or go out of business. I think that Salem will go the route of younger preachers and talk shows to reach a younger audience, and CCM stations get younger audiences now. The stations that refuse to adapt, like BBN and other stations that insist on staying with traditional music and older preachers, will be the ones that will eventually go out of business.
Those traditional hymn based stations will gradually start adding some mellow praise music to blend into their format, some have already done this (WDAC Lancaster would be an example where they have used an orchestra arrangement of mellow praise songs or a more choral arrangement of praise songs, or a very mellow sounding praise band vs the rockin' Praise Band style - sort of like Laurence Welk's band or the Boston Pops Orchestra playing a Beatle song). As the demo dies off, they'll continue to update for the next group of more mature listeners. As people age they do mellow so there will be an audience for those older sounding stations, they just will adjust to what appeals to that next generation of older listeners as it will be more modern sounding probably with more of a beat than what is being aired today, but it will appeal to the older demo whereas the younger demo wouldn't like the format.
If you look into a hymnal today from the United Methodist Church, Baptist Church, or the Lutheran Church vs their respective hymnals from 50 years ago, you'll see mostly different hymns. Yes there will be some over lap, but far more newer hymns in the newer version of their respective hymnals than older hymns. This is what the traditional Christian music station will do, they'll up date. The gospel message will stay the same, the presentation is what changes, same with worship music and Christian radio.
If you look into a hymnal today from the United Methodist Church, Baptist Church, or the Lutheran Church vs their respective hymnals from 50 years ago, you'll see mostly different hymns. Yes there will be some over lap, but far more newer hymns in the newer version of their respective hymnals than older hymns. This is what the traditional Christian music station will do, they'll up date. The gospel message will stay the same, the presentation is what changes, same with worship music and Christian radio.
Couldn't help but add my two cents to this one.
As of late, I've been noticing that a lighter sound of Southern Gospel has been mixed in on the Rejoice in the Lord TV program.
Some of the songs the singers are now doing, were and still are big hits in the SG community (God on the Mountain, Can't Even Walk Without You Holding My Hand and many of the songs that Bill Gaither is known for doing)
This program originates from Pensacola Florida and can be seen on Daystar TV.
Although this program still has a bias towards CCM, there are signs that they're doing some updating to their music presentation to keep up with the changing times.
R.D.P. <><
As of late, I've been noticing that a lighter sound of Southern Gospel has been mixed in on the Rejoice in the Lord TV program.
Some of the songs the singers are now doing, were and still are big hits in the SG community (God on the Mountain, Can't Even Walk Without You Holding My Hand and many of the songs that Bill Gaither is known for doing)
This program originates from Pensacola Florida and can be seen on Daystar TV.
Although this program still has a bias towards CCM, there are signs that they're doing some updating to their music presentation to keep up with the changing times.
R.D.P. <><
The original post that kicked-off this thread seemed to be addressing the "teach and preach" stations operated by Salem. The "conventional wisdom" I gather from reading the various threads and other forums would be that this is THE SOUL OF SALEM. The music oriented stations operated by Salem keep the company financially viable and agile for whatever the future brings.
In response to the original post, the audience for "teach and preach" presentations may shrink a bit but it will never die off. Those of us who have other roles that give us insight into the American Church know that in addition to the AGE of the "teach and preach" fans, there is also a mind-set, a "God-view" as author Jack Haberer wrote in his book about 10 years ago. There is a current generation, a younger generation of people growing up that (pardon me for sounding frivolous) wants their Gospel to fit inside the "teach and preach" box.
The podcast technology will serve many of them very well, particularly those who already know what their view of the Gospel is know what they want. Where radio has served that segment of the church very well is with the "seeker" or maybe I should call them the "Advanced Seeker". Here I am describing the person who has a relationship with a church that is not serving them well and they don't know why. Driving down the road they can tune into a "teach and preach" program by accident, by providence, and suddenly yell: "Viola! I like this guy! He's got it together! I want more of what he is teaching."
That "stumble into the message" event has been a big, big part of Teach-and-Preach programming. Podcast may not serve that purpose very well.
There is a bigger question.... one that does not fit into the Radio-Info mission.... which is broadcasting, not discussion of religion. With the move of worship to a format built around Contemporary Music, how many churches in the future will cling to the same theology that makes teach-and-preach radio work?
If that last paragraph puzzles you.... hit me with a PM (Personal Mail Feature of R-I) and we can explore what may come down the pike.
Since Salem Broadcasting is so tied to the personality and interests of one man, does the next generation have like-minded entrepreneurial people waiting to step in and carry the torch?
In response to the original post, the audience for "teach and preach" presentations may shrink a bit but it will never die off. Those of us who have other roles that give us insight into the American Church know that in addition to the AGE of the "teach and preach" fans, there is also a mind-set, a "God-view" as author Jack Haberer wrote in his book about 10 years ago. There is a current generation, a younger generation of people growing up that (pardon me for sounding frivolous) wants their Gospel to fit inside the "teach and preach" box.
The podcast technology will serve many of them very well, particularly those who already know what their view of the Gospel is know what they want. Where radio has served that segment of the church very well is with the "seeker" or maybe I should call them the "Advanced Seeker". Here I am describing the person who has a relationship with a church that is not serving them well and they don't know why. Driving down the road they can tune into a "teach and preach" program by accident, by providence, and suddenly yell: "Viola! I like this guy! He's got it together! I want more of what he is teaching."
That "stumble into the message" event has been a big, big part of Teach-and-Preach programming. Podcast may not serve that purpose very well.
There is a bigger question.... one that does not fit into the Radio-Info mission.... which is broadcasting, not discussion of religion. With the move of worship to a format built around Contemporary Music, how many churches in the future will cling to the same theology that makes teach-and-preach radio work?
If that last paragraph puzzles you.... hit me with a PM (Personal Mail Feature of R-I) and we can explore what may come down the pike.
Since Salem Broadcasting is so tied to the personality and interests of one man, does the next generation have like-minded entrepreneurial people waiting to step in and carry the torch?
What I've seen in many churches today, is the same as in radio. There is a parallel. Many churches are targeting the young, just as radio does. These typically are praise churches. These praise churches offer what is called "Seeker Services". Services designed for the young unchurched. That doesn't sound so bad, but what I've found in the couple of "seeker churches" is they do not offer a Believers Service on Sunday morning. If you want to be fed at a more mature level, you need to come on Wednesday night or join a small group. For many people, Sunday is their worship day (shift workers and folks in retail have enough trouble making a service without having to attend multiple services to get spiritually fed).
I've got no problem with trying to reach the lost, that is what we as supposed to do, but once you get them saved, then you need to feed them, disciple them into solid believers. That may have a lot to do with many folks turning more to Christian radio programs where the "radio pastor" is more of a Bible Teacher than an evangelist. This is the one place they can get a meaty sermon vs the milk sermon for babies. Unfortunately, the churches that generally offer a more indepth sermon meant for a believer usually offer older music (hymns, Gregorian Chants, etc) that the young aren't interested in, which is unfortunate for them as they miss a opportunity to grow in their walk and worship using some of the wonderful music from ranges from today to the past 500 years. That doesn't mean no praise church offers an indepth Bible sermon on Sunday mornings, but they seem to be fewer and far between as the emphasis seems to be on reaching the young for Christ. Dumbing down the message, Christian Lite as some have coined it is becoming the trend more and more.
So Christian radio's real Bible teaching programs like The Lutheran Hour, Alister Begg, Chuck Swindoll, Charles Stanley, etc, etc, may become more important to help grow the maturing flock once they've burned out on the Pablum they're being fed in many of today's churches.
I've got no problem with trying to reach the lost, that is what we as supposed to do, but once you get them saved, then you need to feed them, disciple them into solid believers. That may have a lot to do with many folks turning more to Christian radio programs where the "radio pastor" is more of a Bible Teacher than an evangelist. This is the one place they can get a meaty sermon vs the milk sermon for babies. Unfortunately, the churches that generally offer a more indepth sermon meant for a believer usually offer older music (hymns, Gregorian Chants, etc) that the young aren't interested in, which is unfortunate for them as they miss a opportunity to grow in their walk and worship using some of the wonderful music from ranges from today to the past 500 years. That doesn't mean no praise church offers an indepth Bible sermon on Sunday mornings, but they seem to be fewer and far between as the emphasis seems to be on reaching the young for Christ. Dumbing down the message, Christian Lite as some have coined it is becoming the trend more and more.
So Christian radio's real Bible teaching programs like The Lutheran Hour, Alister Begg, Chuck Swindoll, Charles Stanley, etc, etc, may become more important to help grow the maturing flock once they've burned out on the Pablum they're being fed in many of today's churches.
Some good comments have come from a loaded question post. There is no basis for saying Salem's teaching talk listeners are 68-74. As long as ministries are getting response they will continue to buy time. Possibly the older age is more a reflection of the t/t format being mostly on AM's and some of them with less than market grade signal.
I'm always taken by some quick to write off Salem, or Moody, or Bott as irrelevant items.
Here's a simple fact. Within Salem over 50% of their revenue flows from the Teaching / Talk format. It built the company. It's also generally a neglected area of some of their markets.
For the who started this tread, perhaps a better question if you want to write Mr Atsinger, is to ask
(1 Is the News/talk format losses hurting the company performance
(2 Is biz talk ever going to do well
(3 Does the flat numbers of most Fish stations concern you
(4 Is the magazine and web division making any money.
Before you go on record mocking the format, please understand what even some Salem employees seem to miss . The teaching talk formats allow them to miss budget in many markets, and the customers of Teaching talk are very efficient. Think Stanley, Swindoll, Focus, MacArthur.
Younger preachers have not embraced the format in part because younger audiences aren't dialed into AM. But it's good to see a lot of believers recognizing the need for deeper study that might not always be clear in some of the Christian lite music played by the Fish format. In fact, most Fish stations clearly market themselves as "family friendly stations" with no mention of Christian anywhere during the day.
I'm always taken by some quick to write off Salem, or Moody, or Bott as irrelevant items.
Here's a simple fact. Within Salem over 50% of their revenue flows from the Teaching / Talk format. It built the company. It's also generally a neglected area of some of their markets.
For the who started this tread, perhaps a better question if you want to write Mr Atsinger, is to ask
(1 Is the News/talk format losses hurting the company performance
(2 Is biz talk ever going to do well
(3 Does the flat numbers of most Fish stations concern you
(4 Is the magazine and web division making any money.
Before you go on record mocking the format, please understand what even some Salem employees seem to miss . The teaching talk formats allow them to miss budget in many markets, and the customers of Teaching talk are very efficient. Think Stanley, Swindoll, Focus, MacArthur.
Younger preachers have not embraced the format in part because younger audiences aren't dialed into AM. But it's good to see a lot of believers recognizing the need for deeper study that might not always be clear in some of the Christian lite music played by the Fish format. In fact, most Fish stations clearly market themselves as "family friendly stations" with no mention of Christian anywhere during the day.
No but many songs are as safe as a Joel Osteen sermon. Maybe Rich Mullins was just deeper. But reguardless, ratings are public information and they not only are flat but the all gospel music remains to this day less than 4% of all music sales.
I did read that fISH atlanta had a good Aug book, but check out the consistancy of a lower power FM Cox owns called Praise. It's black gospel and remains top 5 rated book after book. I wish CCM had more power, more impact, and more notice. They've had decades to get a handle on what works.
I did read that fISH atlanta had a good Aug book, but check out the consistancy of a lower power FM Cox owns called Praise. It's black gospel and remains top 5 rated book after book. I wish CCM had more power, more impact, and more notice. They've had decades to get a handle on what works.
onetake said:
Honestly, look at most Churches.. Christians are not wanting to listen to 'deep' CCM... they are not listening to the 'safe' stuff your mentioning now.. they are listening to the MAINSTREAM stations, CHR, Rock, Alternative, AC... I would think if their listening to Mainstream CHR... making Christian radio 'deeper' would only loose more listeners. Not saying I agree but it seems like the average Christian does not want their music to preach to them.
I also think ATL's Black Gospel station doing well has to do with it's location. I don't see the same format doing well in the North East, or Mid West for example. In fact here in Columbus where I live the "Gospel" station hovers around a 1 share.
xmusicmatt said:
While I tend to agree that you may have sized up the potential audience well, you state it as though it is a fact. I would propose it more of a hunch, more of a "anecdotal reports indicate..." type of situation.
There is a portion of the church that I think of as "in your face" with their Christian views, and there is a portion of the church that I think of as "my religion is a private matter if you don't mind." This second group is not as likely to tune in Christian music at their desk during the workday. This whole dynamic can be very much linked to geography. The South has long been known for a more open, public expression of church and faith. The East carries around a reputation for being much less public about individual faith (and music). The irony of that observation is that Fundamentalism within the Christian community grew from seeds in the shadow of New York City down the road in Princeton, NJ. Go Figure!
What people in church want to listen to may not be the same as the guy driving the dump truck wants to listen to even though he is not today involved in church, but likes the music that reminds him of Mama and home four states away.
xmusicmatt said:
Good observation. But the next question that has to come up in that conversation is: Do the African Americans of Columbus not enjoy listening to "Black Gospel"... or does the entrepreneur/licensee in Columbus not know how to present and promote the format?
This can parallel the conversation that sometimes takes place about Country Music. There have been posts this week about country music broadcasting having no significant traction in New York City. (There have also been comments about Country being a lack-luster format nationally at this time.) So the same question arises here: Is Country Music an impossible format in NYC, or is there no programmer who knows how to make it viable that is able to obtain a frequency to prove his/her abilities?
Back to the original topic: There is much turmoil within the church in America over the style of music to be used internally during church worship. Any broadcaster attempting to program music to reach the "Christian faithful" has to have agile feet to wade through that turmoil and not get washed away in the flood waters.
GRC, You've hit the nail on the head.
When we owne 4 stations (sold them in '85) Jimmy Swaggart was into radio with both feet. He couod tell me which zip code contributed how much, so it was with little difficulty that he could gauge "station response." My stations (though they were information and "standards" based, outperformed LOTS of others, and Jimmy's wife (who ran that department, then) told me - so we significantly RAISED his rates, and added some bonus broadcasts - so he really COULN'T refuse our offer and stayed on for 2 years at a much higher rate.
PS Country worked for about 10 years in Chicago - on wmaq - playing "mass appeal" country hits, and loading the hour with "WMAQ is Gonna Make Me Rich" MONEY giveways - that were VERY successful. A "modern day" Bert Sherwood/Bob Pittman could make it happen in NYC, too- on a "blowtorch am signal.
When we owne 4 stations (sold them in '85) Jimmy Swaggart was into radio with both feet. He couod tell me which zip code contributed how much, so it was with little difficulty that he could gauge "station response." My stations (though they were information and "standards" based, outperformed LOTS of others, and Jimmy's wife (who ran that department, then) told me - so we significantly RAISED his rates, and added some bonus broadcasts - so he really COULN'T refuse our offer and stayed on for 2 years at a much higher rate.
PS Country worked for about 10 years in Chicago - on wmaq - playing "mass appeal" country hits, and loading the hour with "WMAQ is Gonna Make Me Rich" MONEY giveways - that were VERY successful. A "modern day" Bert Sherwood/Bob Pittman could make it happen in NYC, too- on a "blowtorch am signal.
Interesting that NYC doesn't have a country station, as just down the road in market #8 Philadelphia, home of cheese steaks, Tastykakes, the original American Bandstand, and Philly sports fans, has a very successful country station 92.5 WXTU. So even in a major east coast city, Country can be a successful format.
This is, unfortunately, very true.xmusicmatt said:
CCM seems like it's more a touchstone for most listeners, like a "check this off, I'm a Christian, CCM is what I do sometimes" kind of thing, which is also for a lot of them what their church attendance and choice of message-hearing is also like [because for most of them, attendance is as far as they get involved with a church].
Not many people, even those who attend church three times a week, seem really interested in "deeper" these days because that would rock their boat and might be too "life-changing" and realistically most people like the life they've got [usually, unfortunately].
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