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Talk Radio question for everyone here
- Thread starter David67
- Start date
gr8oldies said:
That's true...but it might be hard to determine when KABC went to a full talk format. Many big AM radio stations in the 50s and early 60s were "full service" and ran long news blocks, variety shows, game shows, cooking shows, even the occasional left-over comedy or drama. So many stations morphed into all-talk or all-news stations bit by bit. I remember my mother listened to KABC in the early 60s - she especially liked Pamela Mason (wife of actor James Mason), who had a gossipy show-biz show, though she also got into controversial subjects. But I don't think she took calls from listeners.
Her KABC show is included in this 1960 Radio program log from the LA Times (I think):
http://www.jjonz.us/RadioLogs/pagesnfiles/logs_files/1960/60_12Dec/%5BL%5D60-12-19-(Mon).pdf
Somebody named Frank Ford in Philadelphia is credited with one of the first call-in talk programs in the early 50s on WPEN, but like most stations of that era, they probably ran other non-talk programming.
Jim Dunbar is credited with pioneering the "modern News-Talk" format at KGO San Francisco when he was Program Director there in the early 60s, but I suspect that's somewhat of an exaggeration.
If you googled long enough, you'd probably find a lot of people and stations in various American cities who are credited with being the "first" or a "talk radio" pioneer."
Remembering a post on reelradio.com several years ago, I seem to recall someone mentioning that Baltimore's 1230 WITH-AM had dropped Top 40 around 1964/1965 because they couldnt compete with WCAO so as a result WITH had made the switch to a talk radio format. Wikipedia says nothing about that however.
I was going to say NYC's WOR-AM was an early talk radio formatted station but after doing some research despite their history of talk radio, WOR still continued to play music well into the 80s.
I was going to say NYC's WOR-AM was an early talk radio formatted station but after doing some research despite their history of talk radio, WOR still continued to play music well into the 80s.
trusty said:
In Los Angeles, Metromedia's KLAC was all talk as far back as 1966 or so...a guy named Joe Pyne was their top rated "communicaster" (their gimmicky name for 'talk show host'). Pyne was an early day Morton Downey Jr. type, and he also had a TV show on sister station KTTV. But I think all talk at KABC pre-dated that by a year or two.
According to some sources, KGO in San Francisco started their "Newstalk" format in 1962.
About Joe Pyne: Joe did a listener call-in radio show on WILM AM-1450 (Wilmington, DE) back in the 1950's. I worked at WILM (1967-1968) and "found" some old transcription discs of Joe's show ... I wish that I had recorded them then! Joe did not put the caller on-the-air directly as he had no delay capabilities ... he, instead, repeated, to the radio audience, what the caller said. Joe would then tear the caller to shreds! What a guy!
Scott Dayton
WKII AM-1070
Oldies 50's-60's-70's
Port Charlotte FL
Scott Dayton
WKII AM-1070
Oldies 50's-60's-70's
Port Charlotte FL
pollitt said:
"That's your opinion and it's the only one you're entitled to" Joe Pyne
It made for some great radio as well! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Pyne
KABC went talk in 1960. There were shows like Pamela Mason's, as Llew notes, but the format was talk.
The phone-driven talk format was something that came about over time. Early on, KABC's shows were interview-oriented, without listener participation.
I remember Michael Jackson (the South African-born talk host, not the Motown entertainer) doing a phone-in talk show on KHJ in 1964. He later joined KABC for a lengthy run.
KLAC went "Two-way Talk" (the entire format based on listener calls) in 1965, pushing KABC to compete. KABC won, forcing KLAC out of the format by 1969.
---Michael Hagerty
The phone-driven talk format was something that came about over time. Early on, KABC's shows were interview-oriented, without listener participation.
I remember Michael Jackson (the South African-born talk host, not the Motown entertainer) doing a phone-in talk show on KHJ in 1964. He later joined KABC for a lengthy run.
KLAC went "Two-way Talk" (the entire format based on listener calls) in 1965, pushing KABC to compete. KABC won, forcing KLAC out of the format by 1969.
---Michael Hagerty
It was more like Downey was a Joe Pyne type. Joe Pyne took no guff from nobody, and invented what Downey, Jerry Springer, and the other in-your-face talk hosts later did. He supposedly was the victim of an "Oh Snap!" moment, though, courtesy of Frank Zappa. The way the story goes, when Zappa appeared on Pyne's TV show, Pyne greeted him with, "You have long hair. I guess that makes you a woman." Frank, alluding to Pyne's prosthetic leg, replied, "You have a wooden leg. I guess that makes you a table." Coulda been staged, coulda never even happened, but a good story. Regarding "communicasters", I thought NBC came up with that term on "Monitor" way back in the 50's. Speaking of NBC, wasn't WNBC mostly all-talk for a time in the 60's, with Big Wilson, Long John Nebel, etc.? Lkeller mentioned some of the old-line heritage AM's having a lot of talk...CBS had "Arthur Godfrey Time" in the morning till the early 70's, and Garry Moore and Art Linkletter had daytime radio shows as late as the early 60's. CBS's last few radio dramas ("Yours Truly-Johnny Dollar", "Have Gun-Will Travel", and "Frontier Gentleman") didn't bite the dust till early 1962, by which point, I'm sure, their listening audience was tiny.
Corky Marlowe said:
Regarding old-line heritage AMs having a "lot ot talk," it would probably be more accurate to describe these shows as the radio equivalent to the Tonight Show and other late night talk shows - talk, comedy, and music. I remember liking Art Linkletter's House Party as a kid - it ran on CBS radio in the morning, and CBS TV in the afternoon. All I can remember are the funny segments he did toward the end of the show with little kids - he'd ask them questions, and they'd respond with funny answers. Linkletter later spun that off into a second TV show called Kids Say the Darndest Things.
Another such radio show was Don McNeill's Breakfast Club on ABC radio. A lot of these old fashioned radio variety shows seemed to die with the advent of the edgier political talk formats like KLAC, hosts like Joe Pyne, that allowed listeners to call in with their opinions. I remember that KABC had the Breakfast Club and other gossipy Hollywood style talk shows on the air, until KLAC grabbed all the ratings.
Lkeller said:
Llew:
And it took some time for KABC to a)adjust to the challenge and b) catch up to KLAC:
Pulse November/December 1966 Total Audience Share
1. KHJ (top 40) 9.0
1. KMPC (mor) 9.0
1. KLAC (talk) 9.0
4. KFI (mor) 7.0
4. KPOL (beautiful) 7.0
4. KRLA (top 40) 7.0
7. KABC (talk) 4.0
7. KFAC (classical) 4.0
7. KFWB (top 40) 4.0
7. KNX (mor) 4.0
7. XETRA (news) 4.0
Pulse November/December 1967 Total Audience Share
1. KHJ (top 40) 9.0
1. KLAC (talk) 9.0
3. KMPC (mor) 8.0
3. KPOL (beautiful) 8.0
5. KFI (mor) 6.0
5. KRLA (top 40) 6.0
7. KABC (talk) 5.0
7. KFWB (top 40) 5.0
9. KFOX (country) 4.0
9. KGFJ (r&b) 4.0
9. KWIZ (?) 4.0
9. XETRA (news) 4.0
Pulse November/December 1968 Total Audience Share
1. KHJ (top 40) 13.0
2. KFWB (news) 11.0
3. KMPC (mor) 8.0
4. KLAC (talk) 7.0
5. KPOL (beautiful) 6.0
6. KABC (talk) 5.0
6. KNX (news) 5.0
8. KFI (mor) 4.0
8. KFOX (country) 4.0
8. KGFJ (r&b) 4.0
8. KRLA (top 40) 4.0
And somewhere in 1969, KLAC pulled the plug and flipped to MOR:
Pulse November/December 1969 Total Audience Share
1. KHJ (top 40) 12.8
2. KGFJ (r&B) 8.0
3. KRLA (top 40) 7.3
4. KABC (talk) 6.5
5. KFWB (news) 6.3
6. KPOL (beautiful) 5.8
7. KMPC (mor) 4.8
8. KBCA-FM (jazz) 3.8
9. KALI (Spanish) 3.5
10. KNX (news) 3.3
20. KLAC (mor) 1.3
That tied KLAC with KGIL...real numbers wouldn't be seen again until 1971, when KLAC went Country.
---Michael Hagerty
Thanks for those Pulse ratings, Michael. KLAC in a three way tie with ratings monsters KHJ and KMPC. Not bad. I believe Joe Pyne may have been the number one morning drive show for awhile, beating Morgan (KHJ) and Whittinghill (KMPC). Perhaps you can confirm.
Even at the time, I thought it odd that once KABC was on top, Metromedia would throw in the towel, and turn KLAC into yet-another MOR station, and a dull one at that. I believe Pyne was gone from the air by then (dying of lung cancer), but the other KLAC "communicasters" had also been popular and had built a decent following.
One of them - Joel A. Spivak - was a top notch talk host (liberal), and later did an afternoon drive stint in the Bay Area in the early 80s on KNBR. The station was not a total sports format yet, and they were trying to counter-program KGO, which ran a news block (still does) in the afternoon.
Even at the time, I thought it odd that once KABC was on top, Metromedia would throw in the towel, and turn KLAC into yet-another MOR station, and a dull one at that. I believe Pyne was gone from the air by then (dying of lung cancer), but the other KLAC "communicasters" had also been popular and had built a decent following.
One of them - Joel A. Spivak - was a top notch talk host (liberal), and later did an afternoon drive stint in the Bay Area in the early 80s on KNBR. The station was not a total sports format yet, and they were trying to counter-program KGO, which ran a news block (still does) in the afternoon.
Lkeller said:
In 1966, it was a 3 way tie...they all had 9s.
In 1967, it was KHJ and KLAC...KMPC slipped to an 8.
Both years' morning numbers and rankings were identical to the overall numbers. Odd.
---Michael Hagerty
M
MsMusicRadio
Guest
"Go gargle with razor blades"
On the topic of early "talk" shows awhile back, a few old-line post World War II radio variety shows were mentioned, including The Breakfast Club with Don McNeil.
On the Classic TV page, this link was posted to a 1948 TV simulcast of the radio show, which ran over the ABC radio network, including KABC in Los Angeles. McNeil is credited with having the longest tenure in media history as the host of a show - 35 years. The show ended in late 1968.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ1gamhoH6k
On the Classic TV page, this link was posted to a 1948 TV simulcast of the radio show, which ran over the ABC radio network, including KABC in Los Angeles. McNeil is credited with having the longest tenure in media history as the host of a show - 35 years. The show ended in late 1968.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ1gamhoH6k
mleach said:
Sorry for the late response to this post. Being fairly new to Radio-Info I'm still going through a lot of threads!
WITH was the Top 40 powerhouse in the late '50s/early '60s, but when WCAO with its bigger signal went Top 40, that sent WITH in another direction. I'm not certain when the change occurred (my radio memories start in the late '60s) but my mother always listened to WITH. By that time they were a MOR format, with Big Band music at night (The Harley Show, hosted by a local restauranteur with a horrible voice.) During the day WITH had a few talk programs, mostly gossip or helpful hints type stuff, and nothing that lasted more than 30 or 60 minutes at a time.
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