simulcasting small market station online

[stephend2]

I have several questions related to getting our station online:

i've been looking at swcast and loudcity so far, what i'm not clear on is :

how do we deal with local commercials? we are on a satellite format so there are some network spots which I will have provisions in place to replace with local content. There will be no additional revenue generated by this stream, all local spots that go on air are to go online as well.

is there not a way around the track info requirements? as of yet, Dial Global is not sending that data to us even though they tell me it is functioning now I have yet to see a single piece of data off the rbds port on the receiver. Reporting is not a problem as DG sends us weekly logs.

how do you calculate the revenue reports? is it station revenue including what is generated currently or just online revenue?

I have no clue about the current listeners off air, we're not in a rated market, however I did run a test stream for a bit and and with a little word of mouth was able to pick up about 20 listeners. We're only 1900 watts so there are quite a few places where the signal is rather weak inside buildings. All this is really non relevant i suppose.

I believe that is all for now, we definitely want to keep the local spots on the stream and insert additional spots over the network spots. We're doing this on our AM station now which is news/talk.

 

[V.Riley]

For internet radio stations you are to count revenue from the following:

Banner ads on your Internet Radio web site
Audio ads in stream
Products or services associated with or sold by the Internet station (i.e. bumper stickers, T-shirts)
Donations and fundraisers for the Internet station

If you make no money from those for the Internet Stream, then you report your revenue as $0.

I'm not sure if your terrestrial station excludes you from the internet streaming royalty costs that impact Internet Radio. However, if they do not exclude you from this burden, and provide no advantage, then you may want to see if having the terrestrial and Internet stations be their own individual companies, that way the non revenue earning Internet Station is not linked financially to the revenue generated by the terrestrial station. As for the Internet station, it should not be responsible for any terrestrial listeners. The royalties for internet radio streaming only apply to the stream listeners which can be counted via the streaming host.

 

[radiosurfer]

For internet radio stations you are to count revenue from the following:

Banner ads on your Internet Radio web site
Audio ads in stream
Products or services associated with or sold by the Internet station (i.e. bumper stickers, T-shirts)
Donations and fundraisers for the Internet station

If you make no money from those for the Internet Stream, then you report your revenue as $0.

Why and Who must you report this too. If your covered under a royalty management umbrella, does it really matter
whether you report it or not. No ones gives you a "discount" if you don't make or lose money. So why should you have to report any $$ if you did make it off your station ?

 

[V.Riley]

Your license provider, be it SWCast or LoudCity would be the ones to report it to. They both should have a form for this on their websites that would be able to see when you sign up with them. You are right, there is currently no discount for being under your limit, however, I think the reason for reporting is so that if you are making more revenue than allowed for that license level, they can upgrade you to the next level. Why must report this? Because they said so, and although that sounds lame, if you don't you would be in violation and they (the Royalty firms, not your license provider) could make you regret you even thought about playing music for others to enjoy. Or at least that is the general message that is conveyed.

If they would switch this royalty deal over to a percentage of revenue that the station makes, then this would be a little bit more fair than the current system, especially if they make it the same for all media services, (i.e. Satellite, Cable, Radio, Internet Radio, etc.). They could start it out with the base minimum annual fee, + a percentage of revenue if that percentage starts to exceed the minimum annual fee. This would a more ideal system, but sound reason seems to have a problem getting approval from the powers that be.

As for my own station it operates at a loss, even before you count the royalties. Internet Radio doesn't have a well established revenue base to work from. The percentage of revenue system I mentioned in the above paragraph would be more rewarding for both the ultimate receiver of the royalties and the internet radio stations as the stations would be allowed to grow their business, and the royalties would be paid out based on the success of the stations that play that music. The current system puts a strangle hold on Internet Radio and ultimately reduces the royalty flow. Of course this is just my take on this. Your opinion may vary.

 

[LowPayDJ]

If you are a Broadcast Station and you are already paying your fees, why on Gods Green earth would you want to use a service like LoudCity or Live 365. There are plenty of other options that make much more sense.

 

[V.Riley]

Oh, thanks for mentioning that. I purposely did not mention LIVE365 in my last post. The reason for this this omission is because, although LIVE365 does have a PRO package option, which means they allow you to run your own commercials to recoup your money, their PRO prices are sky high last I checked. You could also directly contact BMI and ASCAP and SoundExchange and so on your self, but unless you already have a staff that is handling that nightmare, the cost of SWCast and LoudCity are worth it.

As LowPayDJ said, if you are a Broadcast Station already, you may have options available to you that are much more favorable.

 

[stephend2]

we do not have anyone handling anything hardly, I handle everything from setting up phone lines for high school football to programming since the person assigned to that job screws up more than she has ever fixed. Anyways, I'm looking for what is needed as far as SE payments only, we already have ASCAP, BMI, SESAC covered as well as all the hardware and bandwidth for the stream.

From what I have seen, Loudcity, etc collect and distribute royalties to all 4. I need to just figure out the best approach to SE only.

 

[V.Riley]

Actually, out of the big 3 (LIVE365, SWCast and LoudCity) only LIVE365 covers you for all 4. SWCast and LoudCity last I checked (earlier this year) do not cover PRO stations for SESAC. LoudCity even says in their sign up that if you are a PRO station you must seek SESAC coverage on your own. The cost is typically around $200.

You can contact SoundExchange directly and see what deal they can do for you. However, SoundExchange in my observations seems to be the one organization that appears to be down right hostile towards internet broadcasters. I'd personally like to have a licensing agency like the big 3 mentioned above protecting me. SE also seems to have the specific royalty that is killing internet broadcasters, ASCAP, BMI and SESAC prices are stable and in all truthfulness are a fair price. SE's pricing was set by the Copyright Royalty Board which apparently did not do good research in to the business models of Internet Radio thus giving us these insanely high royalty rates. Of course I've drifted off on to my own opinion so maybe I should get back to work before I start ranting.

 

[stephend2]

I still have one unanswered question:

is there a way around the requirement of having each track and artist name displayed on the online player? as of right now I do not have that info available...whenever Dial Global gets around to sending down RBDS data then I will have it but until then the only thing i get is a daily log via email that shows every track played for the day.

I have everything for the reporting requirements I just do not have the live data to embed in the stream.

 

[V.Riley]

Sorry, I don't have an answer for you on that question as I send the song meta data in real time with the stream. However, I believe you can submit a listing of songs that were not ID'd in the stream. I'm not sure what the procedure would be for this and it might vary with the different license providers or SoundExchange if you are dealing with them directly.

 

[TimmyWA]

I still have one unanswered question:

is there a way around the requirement of having each track and artist name displayed on the online player? as of right now I do not have that info available...whenever Dial Global gets around to sending down RBDS data then I will have it but until then the only thing i get is a daily log via email that shows every track played for the day.

I have everything for the reporting requirements I just do not have the live data to embed in the stream.

Check Yes.com and see if your station is listed/reported. They have a little flash jobby that you can put on the site and maybe extract info somehow from their service.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

As a bystander, not a player on the field, I make the following observations about music and the Internet and the Radio:

1. The amount of money being asked for by the music industry is indeed a problem and scheduled to get worse unless broadcasters and webcasters can marshall more legislative clout than they now have.

2. Until someone comes to their senses, the REPORTING requirements may be a bigger problem than is the money that needs to be sent in. If I have been following the game correctly, the music licensing people do not just want a list of the music you sent out on the Internet... that is "do-able".... they want you to submit a log that tells how many people were connected to your site for the song playing RIGHT NOW along with the name of the song. Then when you play the second song 2-1/2 minutes from now, they want the name of THAT song, and how many people were connected to your site during the second song. Now we get into the "Repeat as necessary" phase. Third song name, how many connections during third song. Fourth song name, how many connections during the fourth song.

I know my way around a computer and I know this can be done.... But at what cost? What percentage of your revenue will go to this logging-and-reporting system alone?

 

[V.Riley]

I agree with you. What they are trying to do (besides put internet radio out of business) is get an accurate count of listeners for each song which, since listeners can come and go while the song is playing, this is a moving target. With internet streams, there is also buffering to keep in mind. Just because a listener is listening, it doesn't mean they are listening to the song the station is currently playing. The listener could be buffered up 30 seconds or more and still listening to the previous song.

Internet Radio sure could use a lot of friends to stand up for it against the lobbyist that are out to kill the music.

 

[stephend2]

nothing on yes.com, I'm not even completely sure what that site is supposed to provide.

I'm going to call dial global tech next week and demand an eta on rbds data from the bird, they told me 3 months ago it was functional and I've yet to see a single byte of data come off the port.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Internet Radio sure could use a lot of friends to stand up for it against the lobbyist that are out to kill the music.

Your claim puzzles me. Why would the music industry hire lobbyists and send them out to kill the music. Maybe we need to rethink who is doing what to whom.

Apparently the music industry is convinced that broadcasters are rolling in money, and that by the end of the year Internet programmers will be rolling in money. The lobbyists are sent out to cry, beg, plead and threaten to make sure they get a share of what they are sure is a goldmine of profits. They don't believe us when we claim to have no profits, and that they are going to KILL us. The lobbyist shrugs his shoulder as says: "They ALL tell that same lie about WE don't make enough money to pay what you want.

 

[d21ofnj]

It is more about control. The lobbyist in DC is the government. They do not want a fair share, they want ALL. Internet radio is also free as in no limits to spin what you want, and not go by a strict playlist. Let's face it, FM radio is dead. All the true passion and respect for FM went down the toilet, and half of the PD's at the station dont even know how to operate or have knowledge of a product THEY run. I'm not pulling this out the back door, but I do have my sources. With these rates, the only Internet radio we will have are the ones operating the big name stations like Now, Amp, Z, Wild, Hot, Power, etc.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

It is more about control. The lobbyist in DC is the government. They do not want a fair share, they want ALL. Internet radio is also free as in no limits to spin what you want, and not go by a strict playlist. Let's face it, FM radio is dead.

You seldom read messages by GRC that attack a person. This one will come close, as I make an exception to my reasonably good manners normally practiced here.

When your mind grows up, I hope your learn what government is, and that you learn what a lobbyist is. In the meantime it scares me that you might actually casting ballots on days set aside for elections.

I don't think my post indicated that I thought lobbyists were asking for a FAIR SHARE. In their lack of understanding of the opponents business model the lobbyist may think he/she is asking for something fair, but the lobbyist is not PAID to be fair, but to be effective.

If you had said: Lobbyists have become TOO POWERFUL for the good of society and civilization, I might have responded with an "Amen".

 

[TimmyWA]

nothing on yes.com, I'm not even completely sure what that site is supposed to provide.

I'm going to call dial global tech next week and demand an eta on rbds data from the bird, they told me 3 months ago it was functional and I've yet to see a single byte of data come off the port.

Try this link: http://get.yes.com/

 

[V.Riley]

Internet Radio sure could use a lot of friends to stand up for it against the lobbyist that are out to kill the music.

Your claim puzzles me. Why would the music industry hire lobbyists and send them out to kill the music. Maybe we need to rethink who is doing what to whom.

Ah, good point. For some reason when the DMCA was brought about, it was viewed as Internet Radio was putting out perfect digital copies of the music, and that even the kids in elementary school could copy on to there own computers. This was during the time of the original Napster and its downloading of copyrighted material, so the misunderstanding is certainly explainable. As for the Lobbyists they are just looking out for their clients, and trying to make a buck. They are not looking at the big picture and its impact, so they should not be singled out as the sole problem. The Copyright Royalty Board is partly at fault as they set a rate that Internet Radio as a hole can not afford. The CRB failed to correctly evaluate the revenue stream of Internet Radio. To be fair, they should have made the fee as a percentage of revenue, and just so they get something from stations that make no money, they could have added a annual base fee, which once the % of revenue exceeds the annual fee, then the station would start paying the % of revenue. Of course that is just my take on it, yours may vary.

 

[d21ofnj]

You seldom read messages by GRC that attack a person. This one will come close, as I make an exception to my reasonably good manners normally practiced here.

When your mind grows up, I hope your learn what government is, and that you learn what a lobbyist is. In the meantime it scares me that you might actually casting ballots on days set aside for elections.

I don't think my post indicated that I thought lobbyists were asking for a FAIR SHARE. In their lack of understanding of the opponents business model the lobbyist may think he/she is asking for something fair, but the lobbyist is not PAID to be fair, but to be effective.

If you had said: Lobbyists have become TOO POWERFUL for the good of society and civilization, I might have responded with an "Amen".

For the record, I wasn't attacking no one. I realized what I said and responding via mobile while heading out of state that I did miss out and explained some points. However, making yourself as a third person, bashing someone on the spot, and making exceptions on your practices just makes you lack of professionalism. One thing I agree, yes these lobbyists are too powerful...why?? Majority of these lobbyists work where?? DC right? Some of them have their connections with congress and get away with everything. And reading your post earlier does make it seem lobbyists want a "fair share" since Internet broadcasters are saying no profit is made with their stream. But their "fair share" is definitely killing the music and Internet radio. Look, I'm not putting words in your mouth, but regards of whatever share they want, it could mean "fair share"