Does the FCC still allow a commercial FM station ( class A or higher) to waive some of it's distance protection to allow another station to upgrade? Back last century there was a rumored "deal" between 106.7 Gainesville (Atlanta) and 106.5 Chattanooga. If a commercial FM station (class A or higher) goes directional, does it retain it's on channel distance spacing in the nulled out area.
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Short spacing on FM
- Thread starter secondchoice
- Start date
The answer is yes. A few years ago, the FCC allowed Classic Hits 101.5 WWBB Providence to downgrade its Class B signal. It is owned by iHeart, which wanted its Class A Country station WBWL 101.7 in the Boston market to improve its signal. So WBWL got a power boost while WWBB cut its power.
But it doesn't happen frequently. It costs money and time for the lawyers and engineers to get FCC approval.
But it doesn't happen frequently. It costs money and time for the lawyers and engineers to get FCC approval.
I think there is a top 10 market station could be improved once or if the Audacity - Cumulus deal happens.
There seems to be two different things being discussed in this thread.
The only time 106.5 WSKZ was downgraded was in 2007 AFTER 106.7 had moved to its current facility in 2005. The 2007 change was to change WSKZ from a Class C to a C0, which lowered its protected spacing to allow for a multiple frequency move triggered by 107.1's upgrade from a C2 to C1 and COL change from Rockmart to Aragon.
There's no ability for stations to simply give away their protected spacing in side deals, but multiple signal changes can and still do take place. One was completed in Arizona earlier this year.
Complicated upgrade+downgrade scenarios still occur. Look at the Washington State and Seattle message threads. KJET in Union wants to upgrade from a C3 to C0 and is using KRHR Odell as part of the upgrade equation (downgrading from C3 to A), albeit on a different frequency.
A lot more changes could be possible if the FCC were to remove third-adjacent protections, a terribly outdated rule.
A lot more changes could be possible if the FCC were to remove third-adjacent protections, a terribly outdated rule.
My math could be wrong but I can't figure the 209 miles (first adjacent separation C and C1) between 106.7 Gainesville and 106.5 Chattanooga.
You can determine the distance between two sets of geographic coordinates here: Distance and Azimuths Between Two Sets of Coordinates
198.4 km or 123.3 miles. Remember, the FCC shifted to metric many years ago - separation distances, tower elevations, etc.
C0 to C should be 220 km first-adjacent but when short-spaced it falls to 209 km.
We're dealing with a grandfathered shortspacing situation here. Take a look at the both stations' history cards. Gainesville dates back to 1948 while Chattanooga to 1959. That's the clue. (A frequency change and power increase around 1961 for Gainesville might be the triggering event.)
C0 to C should be 220 km first-adjacent but when short-spaced it falls to 209 km.
We're dealing with a grandfathered shortspacing situation here. Take a look at the both stations' history cards. Gainesville dates back to 1948 while Chattanooga to 1959. That's the clue. (A frequency change and power increase around 1961 for Gainesville might be the triggering event.)
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Yes
When I was doing upgrade plans, drop ins, and some applications, competitors were always looking for ways to shoot them down and filing obscure case law Petitions to Deny for things which were technically OK. All except one was eventually approved and built. That one was built, but not at the optimal location that would have maximized population served by a lot. Greater acceptance of Longley Rice service prediction today would have allowed more flexibility. I was always chewing nails until they were approved, and a lot of them stiffed me on fees. So I returned to exclusively practicing my other profession.
Several approved Section 73.215 applications broke new ground. Some of the most respected consultants thought I was wrong but checked themselves and found I was right. There’s a loophole, I’ll leave it at that.
There are Owners, Consultants and Attorneys who will try to stop everything filed by competitors. Some of the most respected Consultants will make up totally specious arguments for owners to try to stop some things. They had to have known their arguments were prima facie ridiculous. But they hold things up, sometimes for years.
Several approved Section 73.215 applications broke new ground. Some of the most respected consultants thought I was wrong but checked themselves and found I was right. There’s a loophole, I’ll leave it at that.
There are Owners, Consultants and Attorneys who will try to stop everything filed by competitors. Some of the most respected Consultants will make up totally specious arguments for owners to try to stop some things. They had to have known their arguments were prima facie ridiculous. But they hold things up, sometimes for years.
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Yes, and the AM in Egg Harbor signed off so 1600 in The City could raise power. WINS bought off an AM in Little Rock, Arkansas so it could slightly relax its night pattern. 670 in Boise changed pattern to allow an LA area station to increase power (which it never did).
Clear Channel bought and closed an AM on the CA coast above Ventura so that its 1150 in LA could go to 50 kw with a better pattern.
Clear Channel bought WHGR 1290 so they could upgrade WOOD 1300 to 20000 watts DA-1. Subsequent measurements show that they probably wouldn't have had to do that. WHGR could have operated at some power, even 5000 watts nondirectional. They would have had to do measurements from the new WOOD site. WHGR Proofs probably showed that from the time they went full-time 5000 watts DA-N. Much of Kent County is far less than the M-3 value of 8 mS/m. Measurements around Houghton Lake have shown 0.1 mS/m on radials crossing the area, M-3 shows 8 mS/m. Plus, to protect 1300 in LaGrange, IL, and 1290 Greenfield, WI, WOOD lost much service in Ottawa County, and soon turned 106.9 Muskegon into a simulcast as WOOD-FM to fill it in. WOOD 1300 with 5000 watts DA-N was much closer to the center of population. All in all, you have to wonder why they did it, and if they regret it now. Good in Sudbury at Night and a DX pest in Scandinavia though, for what its worth.
I also wonder if they really needed to eliminate WLNG 1600 Sag Harbor to upgrade WWRL 1600 New York City to 25000 watts, given that the conductivity radials recently measured on Long Island are less than 0.1 mS/m, the measurement dots being well below the 0.1 mS/m curve on the ground wave graph.
I also wonder if they really needed to eliminate WLNG 1600 Sag Harbor to upgrade WWRL 1600 New York City to 25000 watts, given that the conductivity radials recently measured on Long Island are less than 0.1 mS/m, the measurement dots being well below the 0.1 mS/m curve on the ground wave graph.
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