Seattle-Tacoma Radio Ratings: September 2023

[DavidEduardo]

I agree. My bet is they've probably got a study going as we type. But as has already been established: Either way, they need to find a relevant AM show, and be ready to promote outside of the station.

This would not be the first case where research has indicated a format or strategy that did not work in the real world.

A great example would be in the era of the 80's and 90's when a number of stations had late night sex-talk shows. They got huge numbers. But research would reveal that "oh, no, I'd never listen to that kind of show."

In a one-on-one interview project with listeners to a station with that kind of show, I was speaking with a 40-something woman. When asked about that show, she said, "that's horrible. Last night they were talking about oral sex. And the night before they were talking about group sex with three or four people. And before that, on night last week they were talking about exchanging partners, and, even worse, before then they talked about anal sex..."

In other words, she would not miss the show. But she would not admit to listening to it.

That's why this kind of research that goes beyond whether they like "Go Your Own Way" is dangerous and requires very careful phrasing of questions and a very good interviewer.

 

[CarAgencyGuy]

Jun-Aug 35-64 Men, KPNW at #19 full week did in demo average rating, average person and average share. about half of KEXP #18. Cume is 40k compared to EXP's 52k. In women, PNW is actually beating EXP in Cume but coming in about a third of them in the other criteria. IF a 2nd Country station got 1/3 of KKWF's audience, women, it would be more than double what KPNW has now.
Men, it's a bit closer but still 1/3 of KKWF's numbers is substantially better than what PNW has now. Media buyers like Country we think it's a loyal audience that supports advertisers, we would think the same about PNW's audience since it's a niche format.

 

[fordranger797]

You're the one who said they need a bankable morning show to succeed. I gave you a name. Who else do you put in mornings to get above a 1 share?



They seem to have topped out. Now eve n KEXP has dropped out of the Top 10. They're #8 25-54.

I will be the first one to say it. Fitz is extremely talented, and he absolutely has the ability to give his station the edge. With that being said, I’m sure you’re also well aware of what kind of issues you can run into when dealing with big personalities. Even small and medium market radio can hit some rough patches when personalities clash.

 

[Kelly A]

Jun-Aug 35-64 Men, KPNW at #19 full week did in demo average rating, average person and average share. about half of KEXP #18. Cume is 40k compared to EXP's 52k. In women, PNW is actually beating EXP in Cume but coming in about a third of them in the other criteria. IF a 2nd Country station got 1/3 of KKWF's audience, women, it would be more than double what KPNW has now.
Men, it's a bit closer but still 1/3 of KKWF's numbers is substantially better than what PNW has now. Media buyers like Country we think it's a loyal audience that supports advertisers, we would think the same about PNW's audience since it's a niche format.

But here's the thing Keith; if you were VP/GM of the local group in Seattle and had trusted the programming folks to come up with something to fill in a demo hole for the group, would you cut bait, pack up, and move to another lake? Especially knowing you're going back to corporate hat in hand asking for $2-4M to completely change direction again? Or, do you ask for say $500K, and try outside-promoting the station first after getting the programming folks to research and fix TSL?
And all this, considering the format has been going for less than a year?

 

[TheBigA]

Even small and medium market radio can hit some rough patches when personalities clash.

It's obvious he had no clash with the PD, because they still work together now, even though Fitz isn't on the air locally,

 

[TheBigA]

Or, do you ask for say $500K, and try outside-promoting the station first after getting the programming folks to research and fix TSL?

How effective is "outside-promoting" in a market where fewer people are using linear media? Especially with this target audience?

 

[Kelly A]

How effective is "outside-promoting" in a market where fewer people are using linear media? Especially with this target audience?

Exactly tied to the point your question asks: How are potential listeners going to know you exist and are special if you don't do some sort of outreach outside your own terrestrial radio signal? This particular target demo already watches TV, so wouldn't you buy some TV? What about billboards/outdoor for Seattle area commuters frequently stuck in traffic? Maybe some good ol' fashioned direct mail?
To me, that's been a big problem with traditional radio groups over the past twenty years. With all the competition from streaming, podcasts, or other forms of news and entertainment on their phones, traditional radio management believes that consumers still dial surf looking for something interesting. And once somehow you have them listening, then you can promote what the station does. Which would account to a minor extent for what Keith mentioned; that KPNW had a tiny cume bounce. But that's a cheapskate and flawed assumption on behalf of many radio groups. Even new apps, or E-commerce advertise on TV to get the word out. Otherwise, just like radio gets buried among thousands of other choices, few consumers will even know a station like KPNW exists.

 

[TheBigA]

Exactly tied to the point your question asks: How are potential listeners going to know you exist and are special if you don't do some sort of outreach outside your own terrestrial radio signal?

Somehow that wasn't a problem for The Bull, was it? They managed to attract a competitive audience soon after launch.

But sure, times have changed. The folks at KJR are still dealing with that after moving from AM to FM.

 

[Kelly A]

Somehow that wasn't a problem for The Bull, was it? They managed to attract a competitive audience soon after launch.

As I recall, they were doing some pretty heavy billboard/outdoor, some TV, and contests around the Bull launch. Particularly these days, if you can't wait out years to grow an audience, stations just can't get away with launching on zero outside promotion or contests, expecting an audience to find and like them. As you know, more competition means shorter attention spans on the part of listeners.

But sure, times have changed. The folks at KJR are still dealing with that after moving from AM to FM.

If the group is deadset on not spending promo dollars, then history has proven they'd better have plans to grow an audience over who knows how much time. No doubt the Sales dept. hate that concept, but it comes down to priorities. Wait out the listeners for zero promo expense while spending money on more research and tweaking the format, or tie a rocket to the station through the heartstopping cost of outside promotion? Just have to hope listeners sampling will like what they hear.

 

[TheBigA]

As I recall, they were doing some pretty heavy billboard/outdoor, some TV, and contests around the Bull launch.

They didn't have The Bull brand for 6 months. That's when the advertising started. Yet KNUC was tied with KKWF within the first month. It had nothing to do with advertising. KMPS listeners were looking for a new station, and KNUC was there. The great thing about a currents-based format is the contesting. So yes, they did a lot, even though they had no morning show for a while. There also was a very active social media campaign. Linear TV promotion is largely ineffective for younger audiences that don't use it.

 

[Kelly A]

They didn't have The Bull brand for 6 months. That's when the advertising started.

But it still started before a year expired. How much of the same can be said about KPNW? Especially considering there's so much more competition than back when the Bull launched.

Yet KNUC was tied with KKWF within the first month. It had nothing to do with advertising. KMPS listeners were looking for a new station, and KNUC was there. The great thing about a currents-based format is the contesting. So yes, they did a lot, even though they had no morning show for a while.

And as you know, contesting is a big portion of promotions, especially if there's no AM show. How much serious contesting has KPNW done to date? This could just be an inexpensive long-game play.

There also was a very active social media campaign. Linear TV promotion is largely ineffective for younger audiences that don't use it.

I honestly don't know if Hubbard has tried much social media to promote KPNW. I don't do the Facebook thing, so haven't had visibility to that. But, since Facebook has gone so much older when it comes to its frequent participation, it would make sense to do an all-out promo assault via Facebook and Instagram. And the bonus is that promoting via Facebook is relatively cheap compared with TV, which is what many radio groups prefer. Take the cheapest route to a destination as possible.

 

[TheBigA]

This could just be an inexpensive long-game play.

There's nothing inexpensive about hiring an outside consultant to program a station and then hiring veteran air staff. They are deep in the hole on this one.

 

[Kelly A]

There's nothing inexpensive about hiring an outside consultant to program a station and then hiring veteran air staff. They are deep in the hole on this one.

Oh well, it's their hole to climb out of isn't it? It will be interesting to see if an how they do it.

 

[bobdavcav]

I don't tend to follow radio stations on Facebook, but what I can tell you is that they seem to be trying to promote local independent artists. I think they're calling it artist of the month. Their first one happened to be a blind musician whom I know personally. I haven't seen this person in years, but know she's incredibly talented. I'll have to ask her what being recognized by the station did for her if anything, but it was through her Facebook page that I saw the reference. So, they're at least doing something in that regard, not sure how much else though. It would not surprise me if discussions are being had right now about what to do with 98.9. My gut still tells me we won't see a format change at 98.9 until August of 2025, but I've predicted stations will last a couple years before only to have them blown up months later.
As for what's next for 98.9? I still think they're going to go 90s and 2K. There seems to be growing evidence that two stations doing a particular format isn't always better than one, so I'm not convinced they will try Country again. If they do, it will be older leaning.

 

[airchair]

Who else do you put in mornings to get above a 1 share?

Robin & Maynard or Pat Cashman.

 

[TheBigA]

Robin & Maynard or Pat Cashman.

KEGL Dallas did something similar last year, where they blew up a rock station and brought back some heritage hosts who had retired from radio. The station is getting a 1.5. So maybe you're right.

 

[PB Randolf]

If that's true why would Hubbard and Scott Mahalick go into business with him? They had an out a couple years ago and didn't take it.



As others have said, I'd start by cutting the playlist and creating some structure. Obviously the outside consultant who created the format was not the right choice, so they need to go. Maybe try to morph it into some form of classic alt. It's still a one share station. They've dug themselves a huge hole making commitments to aging talent and giving them the keys to the car. I wouldn't have put myself in such a position in the first place.

Realistically they're committed until at least 1st Q 2024. Probably 2025. If they have some big promotion plan, now would be a good time to launch it. Hopefully they're making enough from Movin' and Warm to cover their expenses.

Right - heads need to roll - who ever the brainiac was who cooked up this idea not the brightest bulb. That's NOT name calling - that's simply stating a fact. When a person in charge fails in any indsutry they need to be held accountable. Tell us again how going from a 2.4 6+ then flipping and dumping $ and going to .8 is a smart business move.... We will all be waiting for that gem!

 

[PB Randolf]

BigA and I were having an adult discussion. I could care less what you think.
Go back to the kids table.

Best you can do is defelct and avoid the question... what a clown

 

[Kelly A]

Best you can do is defelct and avoid the question... what a clown

Ah, back to name calling eh? Let me reiterate again; I don't care what you think and therefore am not interested in answering your tasteless, immature, poorly-written questions.

 

[CarAgencyGuy]

I believe this is the reason for this format decision- KINK doing a 4.0 share in Portland (and of course much stronger in demo) and note it's higher than BOTH country stations in that market.