recent earthquake in Japan & cell service

[alok]

My thoughts are with all the people affected by this tragedy.

Looks like cell service is still out in many areas following the quake on 1/1/24.

the story here may change as more info comes in but so far here is a story about the subject,

Telecom carriers report service disruptions in quake-hit areas | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News

I can't verify this, but I'd say "good old fashion over the air radio stations" were there to help, yes a radio tower, say 5 miles away could have come down knocking that station off the air but another radio station say 25 or 35 miles from epicenter could be OK and giving important info for the people to help them, especially right after the quake.
That is what happened in SF in 1989.
Until the cell service comes back in the recent quake in Japan, streaming on a Smartphone, for help info, is out of the picture, but OTA radio with its ability to sends signals far from the main area impacted will always be the one to turn to when the crap hits the fan, this recent and pass earthquakes are perfect examples.

In SF, in 1989 it happened, after that earthquake . . . yes that was along time ago and many said the phone companies improved things since but in 2011 in that major quake in Eastern Japan cell service went out . . . that was about 13 years ago . . . and now just afew days ago cell service went out.
So it looks like "the good old phone company is still not so good in major emergencies" . . . if a person was looking to their Smartphone to get info . . . well streaming failed them - just recently.

 

[Kelly A]

My thoughts are with all the people affected by this tragedy.

Looks like cell service is still out in many areas following the quake on 1/1/24.

the story here may change as more info comes in but so far here is a story about the subject,

Telecom carriers report service disruptions in quake-hit areas | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News

I can't verify this,

Of course, you can't. Every time some new natural or manmade disaster hits, you head for the keyboard for another detached-from-reality opinion about how radio could have saved the day.
When was the last time you were in Japan? Better yet, when was the last time you were in these affected areas? I have family in Japan and visit pretty frequently.
I'll guarantee you OTA radio was used because it's government-controlled/funded. My wife and I watched NHK over the weekend because NHK is where everyone tunes, into radio or TV for information.
The U.S. isn't structured like that. Radio and TV are part of a free enterprise system. Not government controlled/funded.

 

[TheBigA]

So it looks like "the good old phone company is still not so good in major emergencies" . . . if a person was looking to their Smartphone to get info . . . well streaming failed them - just recently.

We don't know the details, but if an earthquake damages facilities (which is what the article says), it likely did the same to broadcast studios and towers. Sure the radio waves are not subject to earthquakes. But towers and studios are. So we can't make assumptions that radio stations were still on the air during this disaster.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

Another Carrington Event caused by a massive solar flare will someday take out cell service and ruin the internet.​

Will it bring back AM radio? Afraid not. Everything plugged into AC will be fried. We will be putting out multiple fires in our homes.

When will this happen? Maybe 100 years? Maybe next week. Back to the stone age.

 

[boombox4]

Each prefecture affected by the earthquake most directly has at least two NHK AMs and several NHK and government run FM's. There are also some NHK outlets in nearby regions of Japan that probably are audible in Niigata and Ishikawa, as Japan is only a couple hundred miles wide where they're located (Ishikawa is maybe 120 miles from Nagoya, Niigata is maybe 180 miles from Tokyo). Chances are high that at least some radio was available. Whether anyone used it we can only guess.

 

[boiseengineer]

Don't know how old this is.

 

[Kelly A]

We don't know the details, but if an earthquake damages facilities (which is what the article says), it likely did the same to broadcast studios and towers. Sure the radio waves are not subject to earthquakes. But towers and studios are. So we can't make assumptions that radio stations were still on the air during this disaster.

Was E-mailing with some family members over there. They said for the most part, NHK via FM radio was up and running, because it's on a tower miles away from the most affected towns. In Japan, especially in smaller communities, they use rooftop cell sites rather than cell towers. When power got knocked out to buildings, or the buildings fell, so went the cell sites. Most of the emergency evacuation info came via NHK-TV, which covers that area OTA quite well.
But the big difference between getting information out in Japan vs. the U.S. is in Japan it isn't as necessary. Japanese people, especially those living in coastal areas, are very self-sufficient. They've lived their whole lives in earthquake zones, and are more than capable of saving themselves and their families without instructions.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

In previous natural disasters, the NHK2 network goes english with live announcers translating what is being broadcast on TV. Ive heard it a few times and could sometimes hear two piece of audio .. and it sounded like tv audio in the background.

 

[alok]

I been in earthquakes, as I said before. I still believe radio surpasses streaming and a Smartphone in a disaster, at least in the present day . . . and frankly I believe many of you know that.
For some reason/s you don't want to accept it.

Each prefecture affected by the earthquake most directly has at least two NHK AMs and several NHK and government run FM's. There are also some NHK outlets in nearby regions of Japan that probably are audible in Niigata and Ishikawa, as Japan is only a couple hundred miles wide where they're located (Ishikawa is maybe 120 miles from Nagoya, Niigata is maybe 180 miles from Tokyo). Chances are high that at least some radio was available. Whether anyone used it we can only guess.

boombox4 and boiseengineer know, thanks for map BE

As far people in Japan being different then people in U.S. in handing disasters, that is stretching it . . . again remember you want to help people. I believe people in Japan want to hear info like in any other country following a disaster, it is just human nature.

I'll tell you what . . . I'll send some of you (the usual doubters) some fresh 9volt batteries and you can pull out that little 6 transistor radio you had as a kid . . . and use it the next time a major disaster hits your area and your cell phone is useless.
Keep the phone though because you can play games you got stored on it until the battery runs out.
But that little radio and a radio station will be there to help you, far enough from in this case the quakes epicenter but not too far that you can't hear it.

Again, remember you want to help people in a disaster, radio will do that. If not an AM or FM signal down the street to close to the disaster that suffered damage, then an AM or FM signal miles away will be there . . . hopefully they will be in a position to help people while the cell phones (phone circuits) are out.

 

[TheBigA]

I been in earthquakes, as I said before. I still believe radio surpasses streaming and a Smartphone in a disaster, at least in the present day . . . and frankly I believe many of you know that.
For some reason/s you don't want to accept it.

Keep in mind the law regarding radio's role in disasters changed with the passage of the Homeland Security Act. In that law, all responsibility was given to local and national emergency officials. They are the ones charged with informing the public. How they do that is their responsibility. We've had situations where radio stations were in the middle of evacuated areas, and they were told by emergency officials they had to evacuate. There was no exemption for radio. So the rules have changed since your example in 1989.

 

[Kelly A]

I been in earthquakes, as I said before. I still believe radio surpasses streaming and a Smartphone in a disaster, at least in the present day . . . and frankly I believe many of you know that.
For some reason/s you don't want to accept it.

Because what you keep saying was valid thirty year ago, but isn't valid today. Time to join the 21st Century, already in progress.

As far people in Japan being different then people in U.S. in handing disasters, that is stretching it . . . again remember you want to help people. I believe people in Japan want to hear info like in any other country following a disaster, it is just human nature.

Like most humans in a natural or man-made disaster, you save yourself first, then worry about things like media. Obviously you've never been to Japan, so you can't relate to how the cultural aspects are. Not everyone lives like older white guys raised in the U.S.

I'll tell you what . . . I'll send some of you (the usual doubters) some fresh 9volt batteries and you can pull out that little 6 transistor radio you had as a kid . . . and use it the next time a major disaster hits your area and your cell phone is useless

Sorry, don't have a portable battery powered radio anymore. That's the case with 90% of modern society. Tell you what though. I think you should take out ads all over the country and offer to buy everyone portable radios and lifetime supplies of batteries. Oh, and you better volunteer to repair those radios when the batteries leak all over the battery compartment from lack of use.

 

[boombox4]

I been in earthquakes, as I said before. I still believe radio surpasses streaming and a Smartphone in a disaster, at least in the present day . . . and frankly I believe many of you know that.
For some reason/s you don't want to accept it.

-SNIP-

Again, remember you want to help people in a disaster, radio will do that. If not an AM or FM signal down the street to close to the disaster that suffered damage, then an AM or FM signal miles away will be there . . . hopefully they will be in a position to help people while the cell phones (phone circuits) are out.

The Federal government and local governments in the US still know the importance of radio in earthquake zones.

FEMA and local authorities always suggest that those who live in earthquake zones have emergency supplies, and that always includes a flashlight and a radio. The CDC also suggests a radio and flashlight to be included in emergency supplies, and according to one of their studies in 2021, 59% of Americans have a radio available for emergencies.

Household Preparedness Spring 2021 | NCEH | CDC

Health Studies conducts rapid epidemiologic investigations in response to outbreaks that are believed to have environmental causes and responds to natural and technologic disasters.

www.cdc.gov

Although we're talking about Japan in this particular thread, the US is definitely not Japan. We don't have the same geography, same long history of numerous earthquakes, and from folks I know who have family there and a couple friends who were raised there the Japanese take on cooperation between strangers during disasters is different from here in the US, where it's more 'every man to himself'.

 

[vchimpanzee]

And it just got worse.

Snow hinders rescues and aid deliveries to isolated communities after Japan quakes kill 161 people

Rescue teams are working through snow to deliver supplies to isolated hamlets after a...

www.sfchronicle.com

 

[alok]

OK on all, but I believe Smartphones (cell phones in general) are not ready for primetime in a major disaster, it let people down in the SF area 1989, it let people down in the large Eastern Japan quake in 2011 and it just let them down in Western Japan "way back in 2024".
WOW!, just a week or so ago . . . so much for improvements to the technology.

Yes, a Smartphone has its place, to call people, etc. but so far when big things happen . . . it has failed.

 

[Kelly A]

OK on all, but I believe Smartphones (cell phones in general) are not ready for primetime in a major disaster, it let people down in the SF area 1989, it let people down in the large Eastern Japan quake in 2011 and it just let them down in Western Japan "way back in 2024".
WOW!, just a week or so ago . . . so much for improvements to the technology.

Latest U.S. statistics from 2023: 310,000,000 smartphones in use. Cellphone penetration is 92%. Estimated revenue from smartphones is $102,000,000,000. So much for smartphones not being ready for prime time. Welcome to the 21st Century already in progress.
How do you think people with portable or even home-bound radios stack up to those use numbers?
How much to do think anyone cares about radio in an emergency? Especially when most radio stations aren't staffed nights and weekends?

Yes, a Smartphone has its place, to call people, etc. but so far when big things happen . . . it has failed.

With those numbers I just quoted, sure looks like your conclusion is the failure, not smartphones.

 

[alok]

for Good old Kelly A . . .

The phone is not ready for primetime to HELP people, after an emergency, I thought you'd understand that since it is "as you say a FACT " . . . you can't deny that, look at what happen in Japan after the most recent earthquake.

You say people are not interested in info after a disaster, they are just trying to get things together, yes that is true but once you know all is OK with you, your loved ones and neighbors . . . you then want to know what is going on. It is human nature.
If these people turned on their Smartphone it was now USELESS . . . because the system is down.

Yes, the phone is great to warn you before the disaster, just like radio & TV. But after the disaster it is not ready for primetime . . . because the disaster knocks it out of service.
It happened in in the past & a week or so ago in Japan.
Yes, a radio station can also be knocked out of service but not every station as you move away from the epicenter, in the earthquake example . . . that is exactly the way it was 30 years ago when I was in the SF area during the 1989 earthquake.
And that is what happened in 2024 . . . just a week or so ago in the Western Japan earthquake.

By the way was your family OK there, how far where they from quake? I hope they are OK.

I'll end this one from my side . . . I'll give you the last word . . . I still like ya Kelly A!!!

Take Care.

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

I can’t believe this topic came up yet again. Oh wait, I can. And it’s still as backward thinking as every other time it does.

 

[Kelly A]

The phone is not ready for primetime to HELP people, after an emergency, I thought you'd understand that since it is "as you say a FACT " . . . you can't deny that, look at what happen in Japan after the most recent earthquake.

Not that you want it; but knowledge is helpful:

Earthquake App Options: 6 Smart Choices for your Smartphone

Want to stay savvy about earthquakes in your area? Use an earthquake app! Whether you're a Japan expat or you simply want to keep safe, try these 6 options.

www.japanlivingguide.com

Japan mobile carriers offering disaster message services | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News

Japan's major telecom carriers are offering users the capability to register and check whether a person is safe after a massive earthquake hit central Japan.

www3.nhk.or.jp

You say people are not interested in info after a disaster, they are just trying to get things together, yes that is true but once you know all is OK with you, your loved ones and neighbors . . . you then want to know what is going on. It is human nature.
If these people turned on their Smartphone it was now USELESS . . . because the system is down.

In the case of this recent earthquake, contrary to early reports, all the cell service was not all down. Family on my wife's side said there were fewer bars, but larger towers were providing phone and emergency coverage even in stricken areas.
As I mentioned, NHK TV and Radio was providing continuing news and information.

It happened in in the past & a week or so ago in Japan.

No, it didn't.

Yes, a radio station can also be knocked out of service but not every station as you move away from the epicenter, in the earthquake example . . . that is exactly the way it was 30 years ago when I was in the SF area during the 1989 earthquake.
And that is what happened in 2024 . . . just a week or so ago in the Western Japan earthquake.

I never claimed that radio and TV weren't covering this particular earthquake. Their particular situation was unique, in that a lot of NHK staff were off on holiday, given it was New Year's Day. The default message coming out of radio and TV was: "If you're in the affected areas, evacuate now". That's it. That sort of information via radio and TV could be on the cover of 'Duh Magazine'.

By the way was your family OK there, how far where they from quake? I hope they are OK.

One thing you don't seem to believe, is the Japanese people are very resilient, not whiney and helpless as many folks in the States. Their homes get knocked down, they don't immediately run to the government for help. They save themselves where possible, pick themselves up, dust themselves off, mourn the dead, and start putting their lives back together.

About two years ago when visiting Southern Japan, I saw this example firsthand. A local volcano had burped and spread ash over a smaller inland community. Homes, roads, cars, and buildings were covered with heavy volcanic ash. Standing on a nearby hill, I saw a sea of blue tarps covering damaged or collapsed roofs. The heavy ash had collapsed a two-hundred-year-old temple. There were no news crews, radio, or TV coverage. Suffice it to say; that this wasn't the first time living near a volcanic mountain had this result. Volunteers were working on rebuilding the temple using the same tools and techniques used two centuries prior. Next to the temple roof on the ground, there was a plastic donation box stuffed with yen. I asked one of the workers whether they could receive help from the government to rebuild. He laughed and said; 'That would take too long'. 'Neighbors will have their homes rebuilt along with this temple before paperwork is even started by the government.'

 

[alok]

One thing you don't seem to believe, is the Japanese people are very resilient, not whiney and helpless as many folks in the States. Their homes get knocked down, they don't immediately run to the government for help. They save themselves where possible, pick themselves up, dust themselves off, mourn the dead, and start putting their lives back together.

About two years ago when visiting Southern Japan, I saw this example firsthand. A local volcano had burped and spread ash over a smaller inland community. Homes, roads, cars, and buildings were covered with heavy volcanic ash. Standing on a nearby hill, I saw a sea of blue tarps covering damaged or collapsed roofs. The heavy ash had collapsed a two-hundred-year-old temple. There were no news crews, radio, or TV coverage. Suffice it to say; that this wasn't the first time living near a volcanic mountain had this result. Volunteers were working on rebuilding the temple using the same tools and techniques used two centuries prior. Next to the temple roof on the ground, there was a plastic donation box stuffed with yen. I asked one of the workers whether they could receive help from the government to rebuild. He laughed and said; 'That would take too long'. 'Neighbors will have their homes rebuilt along with this temple before paperwork is even started by the government.'

I'd say I say nothing . . . but I asked you, if your family was OK and look at what you sent me (above) . . . no mention about your family being OK?

again, please answer my question . . . IS YOUR FAMILY OK, I HOPE THEY ARE. HOW FAR WERE THEY FROM EPICENTER . . . please nothing else . . . but that one answer for that one question.

take care

 

[secondchoice]

I will try to simplify, In the US most of the phone / cellphone (connection) systems for the voice part go thru a switch somewhere. (I was part of the Lucent 5E program ) To get to the switch, fiber or possibly coaxial underground or worst telephone pole cables are used from the cell site or your home phone to a central phone office. (Some cellphone companies link their remote cell sites with microwave links but that is another thread). The underground cables have one major weakness: they do poorly when the soil around them is distributed. Earth digging construction equipment and one can assume ununiform earth shaking are hazardous to anything buried (natural gas, electric, and water service). If the central office or the fiber / coaxial plant is damaged, modern communications is tough.

One would assume there would be portable cell sites that are linked by a satellite system back to switch for connection (phone) communication and an internet connections that folks can access via wifi just for these occasions. Of course would have to have a way to get this equipment into the affected areas.