Questions from a student

[JGrabowMST]

Good afternoon all, I found this forum after looking for some quick info regarding a Burk Arc 16 remote I've been having trouble with.

Here's a little background:

I'm a full time student at Montclair State University and am helping out in their radio station. I've worked in my high school's station in the past, so I'm no novice to the equipment, but each setup is showing me new gear that I haven't worked with in the past, which does complicate things, though I do my best to learn everything very quickly (to make everything all better, we are moving to new studios soon).

More importantly, we have a Redline AN-50e that isn't connecting to it's receiver, so our Arc 16's wont link. We'll have to place a call into the company that manages that end of the equipment, as I'm only a student, and it's hard enough for me to even get access to the transmitter site.

This problem has occurred 3 times now, we reset the redline once, and it worked great for about two weeks, then just last week the Arc 16 lost it's signal, which I was able to get back up and running by resetting the Lantronix unit it's connected to, but now the link is totally down. Is this an indication of a much larger issue? I'm sure that's a horribly vague question that could have a million answers, but I currently don't have much access to the contract engineer, as he's off-site, and only provides limited support as he can, so I guess this is the best place for me to ask questions.

I've been bugging the crew building the new studios, and tomorrow I get the grand tour of the new equipment going in, and I'll get a better handle on how that all works, but I'm curious what people think about the current issues that are occurring.

Thanks!

 

[bradgoehl]

Are you using the redline for anything other than the burk's data? How are you transporting the data, via the RS232 on the ESI card or via the universal modem?

My first impression is that your unlicensed link is at fault, that said sometimes theses old arc16's just lock up.

 

[WNTIRadio]

My first impression, because it's intermittent is that something else is interfering with the unlicensed link. If memory serves me correctly, there's a boatload of RF up there due to the NJN (or whatever it is now) transmitter.

Do you have a bandpass filter installed on the link at both ends?

Someone else could be firing up a link that's messing it up. Police radar has been known to cause issues too.

Any C-Band uplinks around there too?

If you have access to a spectrum analyzer that can tell you a lot about what's going on there.

 

[JGrabowMST]

I'll say what I know about the setup...

There's a network switch that has the following:

Redline AN-50e
IP Audio Codec (APT Horizon unit)
Lantronix unit (connected to the Arc 16)

From my understanding, everything is sent over the Redline unit from the studio location to the Transmitter site. The Lantronix unit has a RS232 (DB25 connector) that sends over just the readings for A1 and A2 (all that we monitor here, not my decision). The RS232 is hard wired to the inside of the Arc 16 over the two BNC connectors on it (I didn't do it, I only work with it).

The transmitter site has an Arc 16, Audio Decoder and Redline receiver, set up similarly to the studio, with an ethernet switch.

My guess is that since the campus PD doesn't seem to be causing interference (I would expect problems to occur more often if it did), but the new Power and Heating project that's being built close to the tower may have something to do with it. I don't know how far along the construction is in terms of the generator being turned on though, above my pay grade.

NJTV could also be causing interference, however we only recently began to have so many problems with it, so I'm not sure I suspect them, unless they changed anything about how they broadcast. The first problem was after the hurricane rolled through, and the transmitter site lost power (expected). Then we had a minor connection drop in the studio, but the link was not down for any extended time. Finally, we're having the current issues now, where the redline connection is simply totally gone.


In other conundrums..
From what I'm finally being told, our new studios will be using an ISDN line for a direct connection from the studio to the transmitter site, with a Dragonwave 23GHz microwave link as a backup. Does anyone have any thoughts on that?

 

[bradgoehl]

Dragon wave makes a good link, and best of all its licensed! I would guess your using a 15K loop line(or pair of them) when they say ISDN. Otherwise you would have a zephyr or similar dialed up all the time and that's just not a good idea for 24-7-356 operation.

If the Redline unit is gone, that is the problem. Now the solution would take an analyzer or a least logging in to the units at both ends to see what your signal levels are.

 

[JGrabowMST]

Thanks for the responses, very very helpful and appreciated as well.

I dug out a manual for the AN-50e, so I can see if there's any way I can log into it, or ask the company that maintains it for network login info. Worst case is that we simply continue with our webstream until we make the final move, and the current setup wont be fixed (it's not being kept anyway, I just hope we have a little more say going into the new studios). Thinking about the Arc 16 units, I'm curious as to whether or not the issue may have been a power surge during the recent hurricane, because I do know that several transformers exploded along the road by the transmitter site. If that may have caused a slow death in a redline, or an issue regarding equipment that we haven't noticed yet, I don't know. Our engineer will be meeting with me Wednesday evening to check things I think, unless by some miracle I'm able to sort it out tomorrow.

From what I've been able to get from other students who have been around longer than I have, the Redline units have had problems in the past, one of which was a line of sight issue caused by trees (if I understood them correctly). It's entirely possible the tower (or just an antenna) could have been hit by something during the storm I guess. It's already been decided that due to the budget and time frame that the tower service company wont be coming out, so we either can or can't fix it ourselves.


The Dragonwave/ISDN is going to be specifically for the new studios (new building, new studios, new equipment). Tomorrow will be part of the training for it, and hopefully I don't get into any arguments with the studio designers (there are lots of details in the plans that simply don't work, or that even administrators didn't agree with but ended up happening anyway, so it's going to be an interesting day).

No one is giving much information about how anything works, which is my biggest issue, being one of the students responsible for maintaining the system. There are a lot of office politics that got a lot of people very angry, so the students aren't happy, the administration is pushing an unrealistic schedule (I'm sure it sounds very familiar to many). The overall setup is an Axia Element with RCS NexGen automation, and a Pro Tools HDX system which I strongly disagree with. The plans and gear lists were only shared with us once the plans were finalized, so there was no going back to change anything, a very big "oh well" given the move.

 

[WNTIRadio]

Nice setup on the new studios. The Axia stuff is cool.

Hey, see you're alumni of WJSV... have done some contract work there getting the transmitter back on a few years ago and fixing the audio processing.

Dumb question, but you mentioned the hurricane. Has anyone checked the antenna alignment on the units post high wind??

 

[xmusicmatt]

The overall setup is an Axia Element with RCS NexGen automation, and a Pro Tools HDX system which I strongly disagree with. The plans and gear lists were only shared with us once the plans were finalized, so there was no going back to change anything, a very big "oh well" given the move.

Count your blessings on that.. Axia and RCS are top notch gear and you don't usually find them in most student stations... Pro-Tools is also top notch too -- highly regarded by many in the Audio Production biz.

 

[WNTIRadio]

A lot of schools set up Pro Tools to look fancy, but in reality it's not widely used in spot production. Imaging directors use it sometimes, but it's more geared for music than radio's needs.

Once you're "out there", you find a lot of Adobe Audition.

Back to the problem at hand, is there a way to view signal strength on your units? That will help you diagnose a lot.

 

[JGrabowMST]

Tomorrow I will be meeting with the contract engineer, I'm not sure what he's going to bring in terms of tools to check the Redline units, but the general consensus between other people at the school with radio experience is that an antenna might have been bumped out of it's optimal position, but whether we can do anything about it is a different matter. We'll have to get roof access to the transmitter, and see if we have line of sight of the receiving transmitter. Right now only DSI (outside tower company) has the access info for the redline units, so I have to wait.

I went through the Redline manual, but without the login info, I'm stuck until tomorrow. I'll definitely let everyone know what it ended up being tomorrow night when we're done looking at everything.


---
I originally learned on Adobe Audition, so I have already requested that we make it available as an alternate option to Pro Tools, as I feel Pro Tools is just an inappropriate system for Radio in general (ignoring the fact that they ordered and HDX system, which is inappropriate for just about everything).

Not to down play Pro Tools at all, as I did tech support work with M-Audio for 2.5 years, and have lots of experience with Pro Tools from v7.4 all through 10, and I do actively use 10 myself, I just feel like it's not something appropriate for a 9W station. Adobe Audition is more than adequate, and I've even mentioned that a regular Pro Tools 10 system would be perfect, but a $10k HDX system with a C24 really isn't a good setup, considering there's already a 32 channel Onyx installed. It's a terrible setup, and I'm helping the team doing the installation to get the install right the first time, but because of inputs and outputs available. Once the installation is finished, I'm going to go through the setup and actually remove the Onyx from the mix, and make it a "portable use" mixer, because it's completely unnecessary in the setup, but that's a different story for a different day.

The Axia stuff is great to work with, but I feel like it's not really appropriate for what WMSC uses, especially with a limited broadcast radius. We rely on the webcast a lot for reaching a larger audience, but I feel like a digital Audioarts console, new microwave link, and a higher bandwidth online stream would benefit everyone a lot more than the Axia/RCS system. I don't mind having the experience with it at all, I'm already through the Element manual, and feel like I could set the system up without any help, but Axia will be doing remote access for the initial setup, and I'll have to do the additional presets on my own.

I have done a lot of live sound work as well as recording demos/EPs for friends' bands, and I love doing it, and while I know that Pro Tools is highly regarded, I just don't like feeling stuck in just that software. I actively use Audition, Reaper, Pro Tools and Logic Pro. I prefer Audition over everything else, but Reaper is a close second, with Pro Tools being #3 for me. I can't say I've even opened Logic recently, because I do so much work cross platform (MacBook Pro for on the go, Win 7 x64 desktop at home) that I feel too limited if I just use Logic.

@ WNTIRadio - Did you do work on the transmitter back in 2008-2009? That's the last time I'm aware the transmitter went down, and it was down for several months. During that time, we actually replaced the old early 1970's consoles with Audioarts R55e consoles, which I had the opportunity of installing myself with two friends who were also my co-hosts while I was there.

 

[gtomas]

The Axia stuff is great to work with, but I feel like it's not really appropriate for what WMSC uses, especially with a limited broadcast radius. We rely on the webcast a lot for reaching a larger audience, but I feel like a digital Audioarts console, new microwave link, and a higher bandwidth online stream would benefit everyone a lot more than the Axia/RCS system. I don't mind having the experience with it at all, I'm already through the Element manual, and feel like I could set the system up without any help, but Axia will be doing remote access for the initial setup, and I'll have to do the additional presets on my own.

Why do you think Axia is not appropriate and Audioarts would be better? Like someone said, you have equipment most station would be envy off (not talking about ProTools here, but everything else).

I agree with you on the higher bandwidth for the stream, as long as you process it and encode it properly as well...


Regards,
Goran Tomas

 

[JGrabowMST]

I've only been helping out the station for about 2 months now, I jumped on when I got the rest of my courses sorted out, but going on info from the other students, this move was supposed to happen several months ago, and has been talked about for nearly two years now, and it's only just happening.

I've been talking to many of the other students about the situation, and many of the students agree that College Radio is run by and decided by the students, and not a single student had any say whatsoever in any of the equipment going in. MSU hired an outside consultant, had them spec out the plans, and take forever to do it. Many of the students would rather just have revamped equipment that wouldn't take this long to get approved, set up, etc etc. The biggest reason for the Axia consoles and all the other goodies is the influence from media partners (WBGO and NJTV).

It's not much of a college radio station if the students don't have any say in it. Even now, I have some more leverage than most, because I'm noticing problems within the wiring plans, but it's all mostly set up, with just the last parts on order, the students didn't know what was getting installed until they walked into the new complex to look at what the boxes were.

I'm not saying I would up and get rid of it, or I never would have tried to propose a plan using the gear, it's just that many people are very bitter about the situation, and after this long, it's hard to pretend to be enthusiastic about it all (from a students perspective, not that it's anything you all don't know already though).

 

[WNTIRadio]

Okay, here's a dose of reality for you. I used to work for a college owned radio station. We raised 75% of our own money to run the station and pay people, so we had a little more say in what went on at the radio station.

The equipment is decided by the people paying for it. When the students come up with a way to raise funds to buy it, then by all means. You're talking about $150,000 worth of equipment here, top of the line stuff, and things that you will encounter when going out in the broadcast field professionally. Axia is an excellent system, and audio over IP is what you need to learn to be effective going forward. RCS is also standard in a lot of stations, large and small. Know that well and you will be able to know other systems quickly.

So what do you want to do? Keep limping along with the old gear or make the best of it. So you wanted a Mustang and they gave you a Camaro. There are plenty of places that I contract for that would step over their dead grandmother for that equipment.

Sorry to be blunt, but you're whining. And learn quickly that ANYTHING at an educational institution moves at the pace of molasses going uphill in January. I used to deal with the people above me with no clue about radio, college boards of trustees, accounting departments etc. So no matter what was spec'ed out, it would have taken just as long to happen.

 

[JGrabowMST]

I completely understand that, I'm not disagreeing about the benefits of the Axia/RCS system, I had absolutely nothing to do with the order process whatsoever (it started before I was even a student here), I was simply passing along the words of the other students that are here. For a class I'm doing a Mini Documentary specifically about the radio stations move, and it's benefits to the students, so I'm not trying to argue or sound ignorant, just trying to be as thorough as I can about my side of what I hear, already know, and what I'm finding out and dealing with here.

From my perspective, I started at the right time, I get to see their transition from old to new, and I get to learn the equipment more in depth than all the other students. So by all means, I understand that it's all whining, and I'm not trying to say I would rather see something else happen instead.

I get a chance to work with the Avid C24 and HDX systems, the Axia Element gear, being 21 years old, this gives me a huge advantage over other people when I go job hunting down the road, so I'm more interested in getting better information here about how this all works, and what your opinions are on the gear that we're working with. I don't mean to start any internet flame war over grapefruits vs tomatoes, as well as this isn't the first time dealing with education institutions, so I don't find this to be a new groundbreaking discovering about time tables and approvals.

So in other words, I don't mean to start anything, I'm here to learn from you all who know way better than I do, which is why I asked questions to begin with, and I consider myself lucky to have found a large enough collection of people who do know so much.