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Part 15, Internet Streamers-- NOW IS YOUR DAY!
- Thread starter joshzz
- Start date
Big Corporations buying radio stations. Are you guys joking? Clear
Channel is giving radio stations to minorities. They aren't buying.
The other one mentioned is not looking to buy anymore. They will
offer you pennies on the dollar and that's only if your station is in
a midsized or large market. Donations are way down.
This is a bad time to sell. It's a bad time to buy, and it's a bad time
to be a station owner.
New technology is coming soon.
Channel is giving radio stations to minorities. They aren't buying.
The other one mentioned is not looking to buy anymore. They will
offer you pennies on the dollar and that's only if your station is in
a midsized or large market. Donations are way down.
This is a bad time to sell. It's a bad time to buy, and it's a bad time
to be a station owner.
New technology is coming soon.
You hear it all time from people... "Things are tough all over" and when an industry such as radio lives and dies by the advertising dollar it gets really tough really fast when businesses start tightening their advertising budgets and aren't willing to buy time on several stations anymore, now they are buying limited time on single stations and trying to get the most for their bucks.
The new ratings system has and will continue to give many of the stations who were top feeders prior to the change fits as they figure out how to adjust to life amongst the commoners and scrap for their revenue instead of it walking in the door.
Its going to come down to who evolves the best and manages the changes, those will be the stations sitting pretty when things start to swing back the other direction.
The new ratings system has and will continue to give many of the stations who were top feeders prior to the change fits as they figure out how to adjust to life amongst the commoners and scrap for their revenue instead of it walking in the door.
Its going to come down to who evolves the best and manages the changes, those will be the stations sitting pretty when things start to swing back the other direction.
cold_coffee said:
It's already here. It's called internet streaming. Many people (myself included) now listen to radio online, whether it's from a terrestrial station or internet-only. No longer must we depend on a local station to air a program or a genre of music we like. We just go online.
JayR said:
This topic, in this thread and the many other threads that have attempted to sort it out, are like compost bins. We keep turning the contents over... and over... and over in hopes that eventually some will result that makes our listening thrive like an organic garden.
If your listening desire is some particular genre of music, and you don't demand any other active ingredients in your compost, Internet streaming is indeed here and is your cup of tea.
For those of us who are NOT music centric, those of us who want some NOW news mixed into our listening diet, and those of us who want our listening diet to tell us LOCAL things.... then there has to be a local station that we have to depend on, or a locally originated stream that we have to depend on.
Local stations have been around for awhile, and are a known quantity to the advertising market, and they have a tough time generating the advertising load it takes to fund the operation of local news gathering. Internet streaming is not yet established with the advertising community. I have asked myself: could I establish Internet programming targeted to local coverage? Would anyone step up and provide funding either through advertising sales or NPR style endorsements?
New technology may exist.... but new technology that is financially self sustaining does not appear to be here yet..... unless music is the ONLY thing your ears require in their diet. And all the new royalties requirements may soon proved that new technology is not yet fully here even for music only streaming.
Wow, all this talk about how radio is a terrible investment. The answer is it can be if you don't know your market.
A low priced station is usually like a $50,000 home in a neighborhood of $100,000 homes. You're likely going to have to spend $50,000 or more pretty quickly just for a chance to make it. Radio costs real money to operate and don't forget things like keeping the tower lit and painted even if you're bankrupt (assuming the tower is 200+ feet).
You have to consider the radio station separate from you. It is the community's station and only be serving the community will the community support it. I worked for a guy who wanted his station to be classical but he ran country because it was what would work.
I doubt radio has ever been cheaper to operate. You can use a Behringer mixer in a pinch...sounds great on AM. Toss in a cheap laptop and you're well on your way. Lower wattage transmitters are cheap enough and if you're lucky enough to be in the upper AM band, your tower is likely under 200 feet, unlit and unpainted. Directionals are another story.
I know a station in a town of 2,000 (a 1,000 watt AM) done right that billing $60,000-$80,000 a month most months. They have competition. Their key is a 2 person news department, 'live & local' programming and they're everywhere. You feel like a resident when you listen because you know everything happening in the area. Between the phone calls and interviews they do, they only squeeze in 6 to 8 sonhgs an hour (they talk to every organization, have a local farm, business, etc. reports). They are UNRATED but everybody listens.
Can a station make money? Yes, with good business sense, the right community and deciding no is not in your vocabulary. If you're willing to serve and put in the hours, you just might make it.
A business decision is like love. If you never love, you'll never make it to the alter to say 'I Do'. If you choose heartbreak is not a fear, chances are you might find the perfect partner out there and live a great life. You could fail along the way and feel that heartbreaking pain, but you have to learn, brush yourself off and get back in the race. Radio is like this.
A low priced station is usually like a $50,000 home in a neighborhood of $100,000 homes. You're likely going to have to spend $50,000 or more pretty quickly just for a chance to make it. Radio costs real money to operate and don't forget things like keeping the tower lit and painted even if you're bankrupt (assuming the tower is 200+ feet).
You have to consider the radio station separate from you. It is the community's station and only be serving the community will the community support it. I worked for a guy who wanted his station to be classical but he ran country because it was what would work.
I doubt radio has ever been cheaper to operate. You can use a Behringer mixer in a pinch...sounds great on AM. Toss in a cheap laptop and you're well on your way. Lower wattage transmitters are cheap enough and if you're lucky enough to be in the upper AM band, your tower is likely under 200 feet, unlit and unpainted. Directionals are another story.
I know a station in a town of 2,000 (a 1,000 watt AM) done right that billing $60,000-$80,000 a month most months. They have competition. Their key is a 2 person news department, 'live & local' programming and they're everywhere. You feel like a resident when you listen because you know everything happening in the area. Between the phone calls and interviews they do, they only squeeze in 6 to 8 sonhgs an hour (they talk to every organization, have a local farm, business, etc. reports). They are UNRATED but everybody listens.
Can a station make money? Yes, with good business sense, the right community and deciding no is not in your vocabulary. If you're willing to serve and put in the hours, you just might make it.
A business decision is like love. If you never love, you'll never make it to the alter to say 'I Do'. If you choose heartbreak is not a fear, chances are you might find the perfect partner out there and live a great life. You could fail along the way and feel that heartbreaking pain, but you have to learn, brush yourself off and get back in the race. Radio is like this.
bturner,
That is a great post! I think you're absolutely right.
I'm also now experimenting with something that Goat Rodeo Cowboy touched on, and that is providing Internet programming targeted to the local community. This is the reason I have basically rebranded my station.
The idea is a morning show (7 am - 10 am EST) that provides local information. I receive traffic crash/road closure information directly from the Fla. Highway Patrol: of course, weather information; and with the new Facebook page, another way to provide links and information about local events and organizations. I just started the morning show today, August 30.
I don't know what the direct link is, but if you search for "The All American" internet radio on Facebook, you can see that today I talked about a fall concert series for senior citizens. I hope this page really is useful in helping me conect with the area. I guess time will tell.
The radio bug bit me at age 11. I'm not sure I will ever be able to afford a station, unless it's an LPFM, perhaps, but in the meantime, I have streaming and am trying to use it on a more local level.
That is a great post! I think you're absolutely right.
I'm also now experimenting with something that Goat Rodeo Cowboy touched on, and that is providing Internet programming targeted to the local community. This is the reason I have basically rebranded my station.
The idea is a morning show (7 am - 10 am EST) that provides local information. I receive traffic crash/road closure information directly from the Fla. Highway Patrol: of course, weather information; and with the new Facebook page, another way to provide links and information about local events and organizations. I just started the morning show today, August 30.
I don't know what the direct link is, but if you search for "The All American" internet radio on Facebook, you can see that today I talked about a fall concert series for senior citizens. I hope this page really is useful in helping me conect with the area. I guess time will tell.
The radio bug bit me at age 11. I'm not sure I will ever be able to afford a station, unless it's an LPFM, perhaps, but in the meantime, I have streaming and am trying to use it on a more local level.
Hi Alan
Great post. I want to hear your station. I say don't discount Low Power FM for smaller communities. It is about the price of a new car.
People say LPFM is a joke and at some LPFM stations it is compared to the big boys. The reality is if an area has a sense of community, a LPFM can be very viable as a local outlet. And revenue isn't a problem as the local Mom and Pop businesses get virtually every dime of revenue from their trade area which is roughly the coverage area of a LPFM (5 to 7 miles from the business storefront).
Internet is still the great frontier, but it is quickly picking up. I would imagine internet is about like what it was like owning an FM back in the early to mid 1960s. Those that jump now, figure it out and experiment will be miles ahead of the rest once internet radio becomes as common as the cell phone/everything phone-like device. I think that will happen.
The idea of 'local' internet radio is an exceptional idea. A friend of mine tried that several years back but didn't have the backing to make it go according to his plan. One thing I think netcasters miss is how to sell advertising. We get stuck in thinking radio many times and fail to realize the big picture. A five or ten second spot directing people to the website to learn more about the client is likely better than a 30 or 60. Coupons, discounts and other incentives can give real value to the advertiser. Heck, I'd even add their picture and try to get them to voice an ID when I sold them a package (long ago an exterminator told me he put every employee's picture on their respective business card so that when appointments were made, a glance at the business card identified the person at the front door and seemed to make the customer more friendly toward his customers and they trusted his company more). Anyway, the person that buys will have a tougher time cancelling their picture from the website and their voice from the many IDs on your station. Somewhere back in their mind, to cancel is like failing when their picture or voice is cancelled.
Bill
Great post. I want to hear your station. I say don't discount Low Power FM for smaller communities. It is about the price of a new car.
People say LPFM is a joke and at some LPFM stations it is compared to the big boys. The reality is if an area has a sense of community, a LPFM can be very viable as a local outlet. And revenue isn't a problem as the local Mom and Pop businesses get virtually every dime of revenue from their trade area which is roughly the coverage area of a LPFM (5 to 7 miles from the business storefront).
Internet is still the great frontier, but it is quickly picking up. I would imagine internet is about like what it was like owning an FM back in the early to mid 1960s. Those that jump now, figure it out and experiment will be miles ahead of the rest once internet radio becomes as common as the cell phone/everything phone-like device. I think that will happen.
The idea of 'local' internet radio is an exceptional idea. A friend of mine tried that several years back but didn't have the backing to make it go according to his plan. One thing I think netcasters miss is how to sell advertising. We get stuck in thinking radio many times and fail to realize the big picture. A five or ten second spot directing people to the website to learn more about the client is likely better than a 30 or 60. Coupons, discounts and other incentives can give real value to the advertiser. Heck, I'd even add their picture and try to get them to voice an ID when I sold them a package (long ago an exterminator told me he put every employee's picture on their respective business card so that when appointments were made, a glance at the business card identified the person at the front door and seemed to make the customer more friendly toward his customers and they trusted his company more). Anyway, the person that buys will have a tougher time cancelling their picture from the website and their voice from the many IDs on your station. Somewhere back in their mind, to cancel is like failing when their picture or voice is cancelled.
Bill
Correction to:
(long ago an exterminator told me he put every employee's picture on their respective business card so that when appointments were made, a glance at the business card identified the person at the front door and seemed to make the customer more friendly toward his customers and they trusted his company more).
Should be...
(long ago an exterminator told me he put every employee's picture on their respective business card so that when appointments were made, a glance at the business card identified the person at the front door and seemed to make the customer more friendly toward his EMPLOYEES and they trusted his company more).
(long ago an exterminator told me he put every employee's picture on their respective business card so that when appointments were made, a glance at the business card identified the person at the front door and seemed to make the customer more friendly toward his customers and they trusted his company more).
Should be...
(long ago an exterminator told me he put every employee's picture on their respective business card so that when appointments were made, a glance at the business card identified the person at the front door and seemed to make the customer more friendly toward his EMPLOYEES and they trusted his company more).
Mr. Turner,
You have some great ideas!
I personally like LPFM. We got one in our area, that was built by an SCA church. I'm not part of the church or station, although they have called me from time to time to ask questions. They
recently recorded some station IDs at my studio. I guess they hadn't figured out their set-up!
They use Raduga automation, which seems to work well. They don't do live programming at all, which I think is unfortunate.
I also spent time trying to track down the owners of a "licensed" LPFM (WHTR-LP) about 20 miles from me that is actually silent, and has been for a very long time now. I founded a nonprofit in 2001 and still keep it active for LPFM purposes. Never found the owners or the station. I would actually RATHER go with LPFM to keep some of the costs down especially as a mostly one-person operation.
So, back to streaming...
This week I started what is the local folks have dubbed "the live and local morning show experiment." A friend of mine owns an ad agency in town and is studying the integration of social media into the overall marketing plan of businesses. He's monitoring the "morning show" aspeact of my streaming station. It has a Facebook page (search for "the All American" internet radio). During the show I post traffic accidents, local links, etc. as I am able to during the three-hour morning show.
Whether that has value to advertisers remains to be seen. I just started it because there didn't appear to be anything on the horizon to do at local terrestrial radio and I was getting bored "on the beach." My Part 15 just doesn't cover the area it needs to.
I don't know what to expect with the local morning show being internet only. I just began on August 30. The FB page has 53 "likes" and 92 views this past week, so I guess it's a decent start. .
This Sunday we are planning to tow our new "studio" to my location - a 9x28 office trailer in which I plan to move the studios from its current 9x10 spare bedroom (cramped) spot.
Then if an LPFM opportunity arises - I'm ready except for xmitter and tower.
You have some great ideas!
I personally like LPFM. We got one in our area, that was built by an SCA church. I'm not part of the church or station, although they have called me from time to time to ask questions. They
recently recorded some station IDs at my studio. I guess they hadn't figured out their set-up!
They use Raduga automation, which seems to work well. They don't do live programming at all, which I think is unfortunate.
I also spent time trying to track down the owners of a "licensed" LPFM (WHTR-LP) about 20 miles from me that is actually silent, and has been for a very long time now. I founded a nonprofit in 2001 and still keep it active for LPFM purposes. Never found the owners or the station. I would actually RATHER go with LPFM to keep some of the costs down especially as a mostly one-person operation.
So, back to streaming...
This week I started what is the local folks have dubbed "the live and local morning show experiment." A friend of mine owns an ad agency in town and is studying the integration of social media into the overall marketing plan of businesses. He's monitoring the "morning show" aspeact of my streaming station. It has a Facebook page (search for "the All American" internet radio). During the show I post traffic accidents, local links, etc. as I am able to during the three-hour morning show.
Whether that has value to advertisers remains to be seen. I just started it because there didn't appear to be anything on the horizon to do at local terrestrial radio and I was getting bored "on the beach." My Part 15 just doesn't cover the area it needs to.
I don't know what to expect with the local morning show being internet only. I just began on August 30. The FB page has 53 "likes" and 92 views this past week, so I guess it's a decent start. .
This Sunday we are planning to tow our new "studio" to my location - a 9x28 office trailer in which I plan to move the studios from its current 9x10 spare bedroom (cramped) spot.
Then if an LPFM opportunity arises - I'm ready except for xmitter and tower.
Hi Alan,
We should connect. I too was bitten by the radio bug. I remember announcing records to a pencil when I was in first grade. In 6th grade I started a little 100mw. AM. I see LPFM as the only option for my goal of owning a station in the future. I just can't see trying to get backers and stressing my life away trying to pay back the money. I'm ready except the transmitter and tower as well.
Internet is a great option, especially for LPFM. I recall a very low wattage non-comm FM near Knoxville beginning in a travel trailer. I think it was a fair bet online listening was a fine source of revenue for them. I'm speaking of WDVX. Streaming is certainly becoming a requirement for radio.
As for internet, I know a guy in Houston that told me internet radio was the only way to go because a format that might hit half a percent of the population is a really big number when you consider the whole world!
I'm currently the GM at KYND AM 1520 in Houston.
Bill
We should connect. I too was bitten by the radio bug. I remember announcing records to a pencil when I was in first grade. In 6th grade I started a little 100mw. AM. I see LPFM as the only option for my goal of owning a station in the future. I just can't see trying to get backers and stressing my life away trying to pay back the money. I'm ready except the transmitter and tower as well.
Internet is a great option, especially for LPFM. I recall a very low wattage non-comm FM near Knoxville beginning in a travel trailer. I think it was a fair bet online listening was a fine source of revenue for them. I'm speaking of WDVX. Streaming is certainly becoming a requirement for radio.
As for internet, I know a guy in Houston that told me internet radio was the only way to go because a format that might hit half a percent of the population is a really big number when you consider the whole world!
I'm currently the GM at KYND AM 1520 in Houston.
Bill
bturner said:
Well Bill, if you and Alan are going to start a club, save a seat for me, also. ;D
Responding to what Alan said about his adverting friend and his study of social media: A week ago I went to a "training clinic" sponsored by a group of churches in the Atlanta area. I signed up for two classes. One on developing web sites. The other was on "Today's New Media" or something like that. In these forums we discuss how new media trends affect the radio traditions that lured many of us years ago. According to our discussion leader... "the church" is as turned upside-down by new media as is the broadcasting (or newspaper) industry.
Wow, with three of us, it's sort of a club! Cool. I'll go to your respective websites and send an email.
I have bunches of ideas as well. Some I think are good and some that likely aren't very good, but I'm always up for learning more and connecting with more people that share the common love of radio.
I must visit Churck Conrad. Not only is he a great guy but he is a smart programmer and made his LPFM a success on all levels. Few in the business have his talent of understanding how marry programming and sales to the point their are equally matched. Most give an upper hand to one or the other, but in reality, sales is only as good as programming and programming as good as sales. Both are equally reliant on the other. The old saying applies: It takes two to dance.
I'm well on my way out of debt and saving money for the next LPFM window. I would be happiest starting a station with no debt and no need to cover expenses from revenue the first year. Having worked for pennies at several stations and learning fitrsthand how long it takes to develop loyalty with clients and listeners, I've learned how to live on the cheap and how to be patient enough to pass all the 'tests' to win the battle.
I don't want to rough it as much as I had at some places, like the month I lived in a storage building until I could afford an apartment, but I'm willing to do what it takes simply because there's something inside me that brings me pleasure and sense of purpose by serving a community through radio.
Bill
I have bunches of ideas as well. Some I think are good and some that likely aren't very good, but I'm always up for learning more and connecting with more people that share the common love of radio.
I must visit Churck Conrad. Not only is he a great guy but he is a smart programmer and made his LPFM a success on all levels. Few in the business have his talent of understanding how marry programming and sales to the point their are equally matched. Most give an upper hand to one or the other, but in reality, sales is only as good as programming and programming as good as sales. Both are equally reliant on the other. The old saying applies: It takes two to dance.
I'm well on my way out of debt and saving money for the next LPFM window. I would be happiest starting a station with no debt and no need to cover expenses from revenue the first year. Having worked for pennies at several stations and learning fitrsthand how long it takes to develop loyalty with clients and listeners, I've learned how to live on the cheap and how to be patient enough to pass all the 'tests' to win the battle.
I don't want to rough it as much as I had at some places, like the month I lived in a storage building until I could afford an apartment, but I'm willing to do what it takes simply because there's something inside me that brings me pleasure and sense of purpose by serving a community through radio.
Bill
Hi Bill,
I received your email and sent a response back. I think it's great to connect. GRC and I somewhat know each other and have thrown some ideas around previously.
Whatever that "something inside us" is that brings pleasure and purpose by serving a community through radio..well, I think I have that same thing. My wife has to get up at 6 a.m. to be at her work by 7. Before this week, well, I was up, but barely.
This week I started the morning show on the Internet. A bit of show prep the day before and then a check of events, traffic and weather in the morning and I'm raring to go when I go on the air around 7. That "sense of purpose" seems to be exactly what it is that was lacking.
Chuck Conrad knows his stuff. He absolutely does. I have high respect for what he has been able to do.
I know there are a lot of hobby broadcasters on this board, but there are some others who look at community broadcasting at a deeper level. I expect that you, GRC and I are among those, although I know there are others here too.
My radio career has brought about one not-good thing, and that is living at the poverty level. Our debt is not TOO horrible, and the house is paid for, but is a mobile home and is now 21 years old and needing a lot of repairs. I've been learning grant writing to have another source of income soon.
Now, one thing that is sad to me about LPFM is that the one we do have, sits in a church's sound room. My friend Brad goes by to load programs into the automation once a week. There's no "community" involved in it. That just seems to miss the reason LPFM was created in the first place. While others (like us) try and try to claw our way in somehow and carve out a niche that serves the listeners.
I received your email and sent a response back. I think it's great to connect. GRC and I somewhat know each other and have thrown some ideas around previously.
Whatever that "something inside us" is that brings pleasure and purpose by serving a community through radio..well, I think I have that same thing. My wife has to get up at 6 a.m. to be at her work by 7. Before this week, well, I was up, but barely.
This week I started the morning show on the Internet. A bit of show prep the day before and then a check of events, traffic and weather in the morning and I'm raring to go when I go on the air around 7. That "sense of purpose" seems to be exactly what it is that was lacking.
Chuck Conrad knows his stuff. He absolutely does. I have high respect for what he has been able to do.
I know there are a lot of hobby broadcasters on this board, but there are some others who look at community broadcasting at a deeper level. I expect that you, GRC and I are among those, although I know there are others here too.
My radio career has brought about one not-good thing, and that is living at the poverty level. Our debt is not TOO horrible, and the house is paid for, but is a mobile home and is now 21 years old and needing a lot of repairs. I've been learning grant writing to have another source of income soon.
Now, one thing that is sad to me about LPFM is that the one we do have, sits in a church's sound room. My friend Brad goes by to load programs into the automation once a week. There's no "community" involved in it. That just seems to miss the reason LPFM was created in the first place. While others (like us) try and try to claw our way in somehow and carve out a niche that serves the listeners.
I'm blushing, but I'd be happy to "Join the Club."
I think LPFM can work well under the right circumstances. I had a good run with it. You'll never get rich, but you can be a positive force in your community.
As I think you know, I ended up with a commercial station, but some aspects of that make me appreciate what a good thing LPFM can be. It just takes people with a lot of dedication to make it work. A fortunate location doesn't hurt either.
I think LPFM can work well under the right circumstances. I had a good run with it. You'll never get rich, but you can be a positive force in your community.
As I think you know, I ended up with a commercial station, but some aspects of that make me appreciate what a good thing LPFM can be. It just takes people with a lot of dedication to make it work. A fortunate location doesn't hurt either.
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