Nielsen Audio PPM Encoders for AM Translators

[Brian Bowers]

Just curious, does Nielsen Audio provide a dedicated PPM encoder for AM translators? While we're on the subject, can a LPFM station subscribe to Nielsen Audio and obtain an encoder if they wanted to?

 

[DavidEduardo]

Just curious, does Nielsen Audio provide a dedicated PPM encoder for AM translators? While we're on the subject, can a LPFM station subscribe to Nielsen Audio and obtain an encoder if they wanted to?

Every service has an encoder at the point of transmission. As commercial translators are "tentacles" of another local service, the results are combined always.

All stations licensed in a market (Metro Survey Area) get encoders, subscribed or not.

LPFMs have such tiny coverage areas that in most PPM markets there is a chance that no meters might be located in the coverage area. Quotas for meter placements are mostly based on counties, not neighborhoods, and on HDBA and HDHA zones.

Any licensed station can subscribe. In the case of LPFMs, why would they want to?

 

[Brian Bowers]

So if an AM radio station already has a Primary and Backup Nielsen Audio encoder designated and labeled for the AM transmitter, do those same encoders get used to send PPM encoding to *both* the AM transmitter and the FM translator, or does Nielsen Audio provide separate Primary and Backup encoders for each transmitter? My guess is that one encoder is used for both transmitters, but just asking to make sure. This is my first experience with a station with an FM translator, so this is why I ask. Also, does the station pay any more in fees to be provided with Primary and Backup encoders for their webstream audio, or do they simply have to request them, if they don't have them already? From past experience, I've never seen it, but can a subscribing station use one PPM encoder to send encoded audio to the webstream, FM translator, and AM transmitter, if they wanted to? Thanks. I appreciate the info.

 

[DavidEduardo]

So if an AM radio station already has a Primary and Backup Nielsen Audio encoder designated and labeled for the AM transmitter, do those same encoders get used to send PPM encoding to *both* the AM transmitter and the FM translator, or does Nielsen Audio provide separate Primary and Backup encoders for each transmitter? My guess is that one encoder is used for both transmitters, but just asking to make sure. This is my first experience with a station with an FM translator, so this is why I ask. Also, does the station pay any more in fees to be provided with Primary and Backup encoders for their webstream audio, or do they simply have to request them, if they don't have them already? From past experience, I've never seen it, but can a subscribing station use one PPM encoder to send encoded audio to the webstream, FM translator, and AM transmitter, if they wanted to? Thanks. I appreciate the info.

I honestly have not checked as I have not worked with an AM with a translator. But since most stations put the PPM encoder after processing and before the transmitter, and since most AM's with translators have separate transmitter sites, they'd have to have individual encoders. I emailed someone who has better knowledge just in case. In all other areas, Nielsen gives one encoder to each licensed stations, so I'd assume that this is the case with "WXXX (AM) and "W222XX (FM)".

And since AM processing is quite different than FM, that furthers my belief that separate encoders are issued as, otherwise, both transmitters would have the same encoded processed audio.

I believe streaming encoders have a small fee and that only broadcast encoders are provided to licensed stations in the MSA. Illegal pirate stations can't get encoders, of course.

A single encoder can not be used for multiple services. Each encoder has an identity that is attached to a single license and can not be used for several stations.

 

[Kelly A]

So if an AM radio station already has a Primary and Backup Nielsen Audio encoder designated and labeled for the AM transmitter, do those same encoders get used to send PPM encoding to *both* the AM transmitter and the FM translator, or does Nielsen Audio provide separate Primary and Backup encoders for each transmitter?

Since the Nielsen encoder is in the audio program line, usually at the studio end, the encoding hits both the AM transmission site and the FM translator. In other words, the same audio has encoding that feeds both transmission methods. That includes if the AM uses another station's FM HD-whatever channel to send their audio to an FM translator. Should someone be listening to the HD-whatever channel too, it will also be encoded so the AM station gets credit.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Since the Nielsen encoder is in the audio program line, usually at the studio end, the encoding hits both the AM transmission site and the FM translator. In other words, the same audio has encoding that feeds both transmission methods. That includes if the AM uses another station's FM HD-whatever channel to send their audio to an FM translator. Should someone be listening to the HD-whatever channel too, it will also be encoded so the AM station gets credit.

You are referring to AMs with translators, right? Because a full facility AM and FM simulcast must have separate encoding. It is not allowed to have two facilities with separate licenses using the same encoder.

All the cases I know of with full facilities (not AMs with FM boosters) have the PPM encoders after processing at the transmitter, often along with the Telos processor that enhances the little audio mini-bands where the encoding may be inserted. Putting the encoder earlier in the chain lets audio processing reduce or compress the encoding, resulting in lost detections by listeners.

 

[Kelly A]

You are referring to AMs with translators, right?

Correct. That was his question, wasn't it?

All the cases I know of with full facilities (not AMs with FM boosters) have the PPM encoders after processing at the transmitter, often along with the Telos processor that enhances the little audio mini-bands where the encoding may be inserted. Putting the encoder earlier in the chain lets audio processing reduce or compress the encoding, resulting in lost detections by listeners.

If an FM station is running composite stereo or HD processing to the transmitter, you can't install encoding after the audio processing. Encoding needs to be upstream in the program path, whether that's ahead or after an STL.

For AM's the encoding needs to be done upstream also ahead of the processing anyway. To the OP's question; assuming the encoding is done there and the audio is split to a translator, then it's already taken care of for both. Pretty sure FM translators for FM, or FM translators for AM, are considered one and the same encoded form of audio.

 

[Brian Bowers]

Since the Nielsen encoder is in the audio program line, usually at the studio end, the encoding hits both the AM transmission site and the FM translator. In other words, the same audio has encoding that feeds both transmission methods. That includes if the AM uses another station's FM HD-whatever channel to send their audio to an FM translator. Should someone be listening to the HD-whatever channel too, it will also be encoded so the AM station gets credit.

Thanks. That helps tremendously. I also sent an email to Nielsen Audio, but I haven't heard back yet.

 

[Brian Bowers]

You are referring to AMs with translators, right? Because a full facility AM and FM simulcast must have separate encoding. It is not allowed to have two facilities with separate licenses using the same encoder.

All the cases I know of with full facilities (not AMs with FM boosters) have the PPM encoders after processing at the transmitter, often along with the Telos processor that enhances the little audio mini-bands where the encoding may be inserted. Putting the encoder earlier in the chain lets audio processing reduce or compress the encoding, resulting in lost detections by listeners.

I believe the latest FM processors provide insert jacks, which allow you to insert PPM Encoders and Voltair's. Yes, from what I've read, this provides much better performance encoding. Many earlier FM audio processors do not have insert capability, so you then must (as you have no other choice) place the PPM encoder prior to the FM audio processor. As far as I know, PPM AM encoders are placed prior to the AM audio processor. I've never seen an AM audio processor yet that has insert jacks, but maybe some of the newer ones now have them.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Correct. That was his question, wasn't it?

I thought so, but wanted to make sure other readers followed the dialogue correctly.

If an FM station is running composite stereo or HD processing to the transmitter, you can't install encoding after the audio processing. Encoding needs to be upstream in the program path, whether that's ahead or after an STL.

For AM's the encoding needs to be done upstream also ahead of the processing anyway. To the OP's question; assuming the encoding is done there and the audio is split to a translator, then it's already taken care of for both. Pretty sure FM translators for FM, or FM translators for AM, are considered one and the same encoded form of audio.

The problem with encoding downstream is that in the event of failure and the backup source of audio is not encoded, bye-bye listeners.

Nielsen will provide stations with equipment for each transmission system, so I suppose that there can be encoding for every redundancy.

 

[EngineeringDog]

Just curious, does Nielsen Audio provide a dedicated PPM encoder for AM translators? While we're on the subject, can a LPFM station subscribe to Nielsen Audio and obtain an encoder if they wanted to?

No, not a dedicated encoder for the FM translator. The encoded audio fed to the AM & FM (translator) is from the same encoder. Nielsen will also supply a new encoding receiver that visually verifies that the encoded audio is received on both the AM & FM. They *might* send separate encoders to some stations, but I haven't seen that.

 

[bradgoehl]

I don't have any first-hand knowledge of encoding for an AM's FM translator. Regarding HD2/3/4 Nielsen did not provide us FM translator specific encoders, the same encoder for the HD parent signal is used.

 

[bulwnkl]

If there aren’t encoders for the HD sub-channels, how do they know whether a listener is on the main or a sub-channel? Or do I not understand what you’re saying?

 

[bradgoehl]

You would have an encoder for the HD2 signal and that audio is simulcast on to the translator. So you would not know how many folks are listening to the translator vs the HD2.

 

[DavidEduardo]

You would have an encoder for the HD2 signal and that audio is simulcast on to the translator. So you would not know how many folks are listening to the translator vs the HD2.

Of course, the evidence shows that only a few times in the last 12 years have "pure" HD2 or HD3 signals shown in ratings. On the other hand, HD channels with FM translators have shown very well in markets ranging from San Antonio to Buffalo. Our assumption has to be that nearly all the listening is to the FM.

 

[bulwnkl]

You would have an encoder for the HD2 signal and that audio is simulcast on to the translator. So you would not know how many folks are listening to the translator vs the HD2.

Ah, now I understand.