MARKETS OUTGROWING SIGNALS

[radiorob2.0]

Washington DC is another example. I've read WOL 1450 was a dominant station until their audience moved to the suburbs. 630 and 980 are the only signals that have a chance. The rest of the AM dial does not.

Then there is 1190 Dallas with two transmitter sites and a night time signal requiring 12 towers. It reaches Ft Worth but misses the growth.

Much of the problem were the onslaught of post-war AM's. They could exist at night but with highly directional signals. Unfortunately the engineers didn't have a psychic handy to predict population growth. A few were lucky but the rest might as well shut down at night since they miss much of the population.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Charleston, SC is a market with AMs that definitely have been outgrown by the growth of the area. Thirty years ago, you had 1250 (WTMA, 5kw), 1340 (WOKE), 1390 (WCSC), 1450 (WQSN), and several others, none with more than 5 KW, but they all covered the entire Charleston area day and night, since if you went past Northwoods Mall or Goose Creek, you were in the country.

It's more than apparent urban growth... fully half the market population is not in Charleston County, even.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

In the Sixties, Pittsburgh was served by 970, 1020, 1250, 1320, 1360, and 1410 with full-time broadcasting days. Only two FM's had independent programing. That was B/EZ at 93.7 and Classical at 96.9. 1020 covered the entire market with 50,000 watts and KQV at 1410 was # 1 with teens and seemed to disappear just where the metro ended . Today the metro goes way beyond that time and all these stations signals seems much worse than then. As I am not a technician, I don't know why, but the are.

 

[KeithE4]

Indianapolis is an example where the former WIBC (now WFNI) had a strong 50,000 watt signal that covers most of Indiana. At night, its 10,000 watts aimed southeas which was fine for the Indianapolis of yesteryear. Now there are close in northern suburbs that can't get them. 60 miles north in Lafayette, they were covered by CHOK in Sarnia ONT. WNDE-1260 probably comes the closest to covering at least inside the I-465 beltway, maybe 1310 comes close.

From what I remember, WFNI (WIBC) never had much coverage into the northern end of the market, is marginal into Lafayette, and is totally nulled toward Bloomington (which is in the way of protected stations in Memphis and Lookout Mountain/Chattanooga).

1070 kHz is a mess in the entire eastern half of the country. Not so out west, where KNX is dominant.

But then again, I never picked up any Indy AM station in Bloomington at night when I lived there in the '60s and early '70s (only 1070, 1260, 1310, and 1430 were full-time signals back then). If one wanted to listen to rock and lived in Bloomington, it was WNAP (FM) or the big sticks in Chicago, New York, or Windsor.

 

[FreddyE1977]

Perhaps the classic example is Columbus, Ohio, where 2 out of the 3 big AM stations back in the day were
graveyarders, and which has since sprawled to take in all of Franklin County and beyond. Likewise Pittsburgh
where KQV was the leading music station back in the day. I drive around town now and find so many holes
in their signal that it's hard to imagine they were ever the source from which most Pittsburghers got their music.
Likewise on 970, the former "double-double". Not a prayer those stations would reach into the new Washington
and Butler county suburbs after sundown.

On the other end of the spectrum is Detroit, which seemed to have outstanding ground conductivity due to the
rather swampy Michigan landscape. I used to pull in a very solid signal from 500 watt WHND in Monroe from out
in Genesee County. Probably around 100 miles as the crow files.

 

[trusty]

But, wait...
There is a new and growing market for the graveyarders - if marketed correctly.

I am seeing more and more AM stations that have been granted nighttime permission to air at 1kw, 5kw, 9kw, 15kw, etc. streaming on the internet. It would seem they are staying "on the air" just to grab some of the streaming audience, and most promote nighttime streaming on their daytime signal.

 

[michael hagerty]

Keith: I live in Moon Valley (about 17 miles north of downtown Phoenix) and KFYI (550) at night is dicey at best...the power lines along 7th Street make it sound like I'm DXing in the car (I drive to work at 3:30 AM). 620 is the only strong AM night signal there (and there's 28 more miles worth of metro population to the north of that).

That's what I suspected, but I haven't been that far north in quite a long time, and never lived there.

Here in Ahwatukee, it's KFYI 550, KTAR 620, KSUN 1400, KMIK 1580 and not much else at night. XTRA 910 and KOY 1230 are listenable but a bit noisy, and forget about the rest. Even KDUS 1060, which is the closest station to me (4 miles) is almost inaudible since they completely null to the south. The IBOC noise from KNX overrides them on most nights.

No question it's made worse by all the interference generated by backlit plastic flourescent signs and everything else, without which 550 would probably be a lot stronger, but Phoenix is so far-flung, with the density anywhere but the center of town, that you'd really need a monster signal to cover it all, interference-free day and night.

I don't understand why KFYI can't increase their power to 5 kW at night and remain non-directional. KTAR should be able to upgrade to 50 kW day and 10 kW at night, but they'd probably have to move their tower elsewhere since it is in a shopping mall parking lot surrounded by a residential neighborhood.

Keith: It had actually been a while since I listened to AM on the way in to work, so I did it this morning. On the north side of the Phoenix Mountain Preserve (my route is from roughly 7th Street and Thunderbird to the 51 Freeway then south):

550 KFYI sounds like a good DX...some light electrical interference and static, but no fading or crosstalk from other signals.

620 KTAR is strong and clear.

860 KMVP is barely audible, like a DX over hundreds of miles, with crosstalk.

910 KGME has electrical interference and static and is noticeably weaker than 550.

960 KKNT is clean when you tune in (not surprising since the towers are up near Desert Ridge), but the "SCAN" feature on the car radio passed over it.

1010 KXXT sounds like a DX over hundreds of miles, with crosstalk but stronger than 860.

1060 KDUS is weak, with interference from other signals.

1100 KFNX is clean, but again, the towers are in Cave Creek. The signal fades fast south of the Mountain Preserve.

1190 KRDS is clean.

1230 KOY sounds like a DX over hundreds of miles, with crosstalk. Stronger than 860, weaker than 1010.

1280 KXEG is about as bad as 860.

1360 KPXQ is clean.

1400 KSUN is about as bad as 860.

1480 KPHX is about as bad as 860.

1510 KFNN is about as bad as 1010.

1540 KASA is inaudible.

1580 KMIK is about as bad as 1010...with more pronounced fading.

Why does this matter? Because these night patterns this time of year affect half of morning drive (sunrise isn't until after 7) and half of afternoon drive (sunset is around 5:30).

By the way, 660 KTNN, Window Rock is only a little worse than 550, 810 KGO, San Francisco is probably a little better and 1070, KNX, Los Angeles is arguably as good as 620...completely loud and clear.

640 KFI, Los Angeles isn't what it used to be...lots of electrical interference, fading and crosstalk.

 

[KeithE4]

Keith: It had actually been a while since I listened to AM on the way in to work, so I did it this morning. On the north side of the Phoenix Mountain Preserve (my route is from roughly 7th Street and Thunderbird to the 51 Freeway then south):

550 KFYI sounds like a good DX...some light electrical interference and static, but no fading or crosstalk from other signals.

They're clear in the 'Tuke, but their transmitter is fairly close-by.

620 KTAR is strong and clear.

Probably the only one guaranteed to be so valley-wide.

860 KMVP is barely audible, like a DX over hundreds of miles, with crosstalk.

They're audible but with crosstalk underneath, plus the IBOC crap messing up 850 and 870.

910 KGME has electrical interference and static and is noticeably weaker than 550.

960 KKNT is clean when you tune in (not surprising since the towers are up near Desert Ridge), but the "SCAN" feature on the car radio passed over it.

Both 910 and 960 are decent in the car, noisy at home, near 44th St. & Ray Rd.

1010 KXXT sounds like a DX over hundreds of miles, with crosstalk but stronger than 860.

Barely audible.

1060 KDUS is weak, with interference from other signals.

KNX IBOC hash overrides KDUS until I get north of Elliot Rd, one mile from their tower!

1100 KFNX is clean, but again, the towers are in Cave Creek. The signal fades fast south of the Mountain Preserve.

1190 KRDS is clean.

Both 1100 and 1190 are inaudible before sunrise.

1230 KOY sounds like a DX over hundreds of miles, with crosstalk. Stronger than 860, weaker than 1010.

KOY is decent in the car, not so good at home.

1280 KXEG is about as bad as 860.

1360 KPXQ is clean.

Both are inaudible.

1400 KSUN is about as bad as 860.

Due to their SE Phoenix location, they are good in Ahwatukee.

1480 KPHX is about as bad as 860.

They are barely audible in the car, not at all at home.

1510 KFNN is about as bad as 1010.

1510 is KCKK Denver, aka "Mile High Sports."

1540 KASA is inaudible.

Ditto.

1580 KMIK is about as bad as 1010...with more pronounced fading.

KMIK is one of the few loud-and-clear AMs in the SE valley.

Why does this matter? Because these night patterns this time of year affect half of morning drive (sunrise isn't until after 7) and half of afternoon drive (sunset is around 5:30).

And the differences between your location and mine pretty much prove that no AM station other than KTAR is capable of full market coverage.

By the way, 660 KTNN, Window Rock is only a little worse than 550, 810 KGO, San Francisco is probably a little better and 1070, KNX, Los Angeles is arguably as good as 620...completely loud and clear.

I have some problems with KTNN and KGO, but KNX is better than it should be, and as I said, its IBOC hash overrides KDUS from 4 miles away.

640 KFI, Los Angeles isn't what it used to be...lots of electrical interference, fading and crosstalk.

Not to mention more IBOC garbage spewing over from 620.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

Or consider Phoenix...Today, with the metro easily extending 45 miles or more in any direction you'd care to choose (except due south, where there's a mountain range)...

Michael, as Keith reviewed in his post between these two, don't forget the
'Tuke, being just the other (south) side of the mountains! And I suppose
Maricopa now too.

...KTAR should be able to upgrade to 50 kW day and 10 kW at night, but they'd probably have to move their tower elsewhere since it is in a shopping mall parking lot surrounded by a residential neighborhood.

For 620, the nearest is Portland...10k at night should be OK.

Hanford on 620, as well as Tijuana.

Discounting Hanford and TJ for the moment, a closer 620 (than Portland)
is Wichita Falls, TX. Those seem to be the only two nulls in the KTAR 620
Phoenix night pattern. Clarification: the Wichita Falls 620 did a move-in
to metro DFW some years back and its COL is now Plano (KMKI); however
I believe it was done at its own risk and KTAR did not have to modify its
pattern. I say that because the pattern plot on radio-locator.com looks
the same as the one in an early 1970s NRC Night Pattern printout I have.

Closed circuit for the Old Gringo or others: if you have evidence that KTAR
did have to retool to accommodate KMKI's move-in, please post the info!

Back to Hanford and TJ...again based on KTAR's nighttime pattern, it does not
have to protect Hanford ("seniority" on the freq.) nor Tijuana, although you
may recall those two or three new adds in TJ a couple years ago that wreaked
havoc on several existing frequencies including 620.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

620 in Pittsburgh (out of Westmoreland Co.) used to come in very clearly in the city. Now it wavers even in the Eastern part of Da Burg and could not seen as competitive. Why?

 

[joepa4ever]

620 in Pittsburgh (out of Westmoreland Co.) used to come in very clearly in the city. Now it wavers even in the Eastern part of Da Burg and could not seen as competitive. Why?

When Bob Stevens (?) bought it, the tower-site and existing 4/5 tower directional rig wasn't part of the deal (got sold to a developer), so they changed the COL from Greensburg to Irwin and built a new rig that enabled them to kick the day power up to 5kw, which should have (theoretically) improved reception in the city. But for whatever reasons they weren't able to keep the night pattern and only got lightbulb-level night-time authorization.

Moving AM rigs is a bitch.

 

[schmave]

I am shocked that Houston has hardly been mentioned. It's a prototypical example ... suburban growth to the north, northwest and northeast has gone into areas not served well or at all by the night signals of (among others) 610, 740, 790, 950, 1010 and 1560, just to name a few.
The southern areas (Pearland, League City, etc.) are well-blanketed by those arrays, but the vast majority of growth is going west and north.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Back to Hanford and TJ...again based on KTAR's nighttime pattern, it does not
have to protect Hanford ("seniority" on the freq.) nor Tijuana, although you
may recall those two or three new adds in TJ a couple years ago that wreaked
havoc on several existing frequencies including 620.

But the suggestion was that KTAR increase power. To do so, it has to protect even the newer allocations.

Wichita Falls' KWFT had to protect KTAR when it moved; any rebuild of an AM has to protect everything on the channel that is relevant, as well as be in compliance with the new interference standards. This is why so many stations that move lose coverage.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

In 1970, Richmond Va was served by 910, 1140, 1380, 1450, and 1480 after sundown. WENZ (1450) broadcast from East of the city and could not serve at least half the city at night. The others were adequate for where most people lived. As the population has moved West and South, only WRVA could serve the metro area. A lot of Am'ers that were daytime only then are now F/T with tiny nightime wattages and barely serve their front yards. WRVQ with 200,000 watts easily crushed the AM competition . Too bad it's just an automated jukebox now with only one local personality.

 

[jd]

Wichita Falls' KWFT had to protect KTAR when it moved; any rebuild of an AM has to protect everything on the channel that is relevant, as well as be in compliance with the new interference standards. This is why so many stations that move lose coverage.

You're quite correct. When 620 (now KMKI) was moved from Wichita Falls to Plano, with a site north-northeast of Dallas, it wasn't like they were able to simply set up a similar pattern there. For years KWFT had a great signal both day and night in most of the D/FW area but the reincarnation bears little resemblance to the original. Some of what were more like gentle "tucks" in the pattern became rather severe nulls, especially at night. One of the major ones is due west to avoid further grand-fathered interference to KTAR and there are others that are necessary for relatively late arrivals or upgrades on 620. So it's basically like you said, in that moving the station was kind of like starting all over again.