Localism and Radio

[John FL]

I thought about a post I made in my local board yesterday. In a nutshell, I felt that I just didn’t have a real connection with radio where I live. I wondered if technology is making this happen in that listeners have so many options. I’m not just talking about alternatives to radio but having the ability to hear stations in many venues that broadcast from virtually anywhere.

For as long as I can recall, I have been a strong advocate that radio stations develop strong ties with the local community. I’m not saying radio should abandon sponsorship in the March of Dimes, Diabetes walks etc. However, I’m beginning to question what is really local and if this is becoming more in the ear of the beholder.

I don’t have the stats to prove it but I believe a reasonable assumption is that a significant number of adults move from the place they grew up and went to school to other states/cities many miles away. Sometimes I can’t remember what I ate for dinner the night before but I can recall events in those formative years as if they happened yesterday. This can create strong ties to the things familiar including radio listening where we used to live.

I’ve lived in Florida longer than I lived in the NYC metro area but when I tune in via streaming to say, CBS-FM, I feel like I can identify more with that station 1000 miles away from where I live to the station that’s just down the street. I wonder if this is normal and happening more in the business of radio.

Even though I’m not Jewish, I have to laugh when I hear the Yiddish terms when the weather is described such as “Shlepeth the umbrella.” Where I live, that would go over like a lead balloon – it wouldn’t work. In my youth I once worked in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn and I learned to get by learning lots of Yiddish words/expressions etc. It just made me realize that our world is becoming much smaller as we can go virtually anywhere with just a few clicks and it just strengthens ties to things that made us feel good.

So, I just wonder what this means for radio. I’ve heard internet radio will be common (maybe it exists already) in cars. I can just imagine a snowbird from New York heading for Florida and never changing stations. Anyway, I’m just curious about what you all think. What I’m getting from all this is returning to our past may be like a security blanket but there still has to be something worth listening to and I think those are the stations that will be successful.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

JohnJax: You and I suffer from similar diseases. You have posed questions and curiosities that are in some cases foreign to many of the posts we read in R-I.

The info may be out there somewhere, but I don't recall ever reading about any kind of audience study that indicated what percentage of the listeners to each station were "native, home-towners" and how many were "transplants, move-arounds". For the purpose of advertising buys there is no demand for that flotsam of info. Listeners are listeners when it comes to selling brands of soft drinks, membership in exercise clubs, or Honda automobiles. For the behind the scenes people who make programming decisions it would prove interesting..... maybe useless, maybe priceless.

That is only one of the issues you raised. I'm looking forward to what others find interesting in your topic.

 

[gr8oldies]

In the case of my local news/talk combo, it's local when it needs to be local, but syndicated other times. When I say "'when it needs to be local" I am talking about emergency weather situations (they dumped syndication and went wall to wall for three days after Hurricane Ike winds devastated Ohio), whenever there's a traffic bulletin (yes, they'll interrupt Rush in mid-sentence to tell us about a major traffic tie-up or a weather situation), and of course with local news at the top and bottom of the hour, and a morning all-news block. If news breaks overnight, they'll jump in. The rest of the time, they are syndicated. So I think in this instance it's the best of both worlds.

On the other hand, like I've mentioned in other threads, I have several friends who listen to K-Love, and like the fact that they can hear the same K-Love when they travel. As far as they are concerned, they are listening to the station they listen to back home, even though they are fully aware the network originates in California.

Far as that goes, when I was a kid in Western Ohio, most of the kids listened to CKLW..about 150 miles away serving Detroit from Windsor. There wasn't a thing "local" about it to us..we didn't even visit that big, bad motor city. Didn't drive there to shop, didn't root for the Tigers or Pistons. Hell, the weather wasn't even right for us. But in many ways it was our home town top 40 station.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

"kids" have a tendency to like things that are different... different than what "old folks" are fond of. Back in the heyday of the CKLWs and the WLSs and others, they couldn't see the disk jockey (who may have also had zits) so he was cook because he sounded cool. But once the saw the local dj they decided he wasn't cool.

Today "kids" have more cash to spend so radio does pay more attention to them than was true 30 or 40 years ago.

Most transactions need to work in both directions. The listener you are describing wants "the hot news" like the traffic tie-up and the tornado watch, etc. If for all other info and entertainment the station switches to the network, the satellite, the listener may be perfectly happy. So we have the listeners on one end of the see-saw and who is on the other end? There is the station that needs for the people who gather and pursue the traffic tie-ups and weather disasters to be productive even on calm, peaceful days if they are going to "pay for their keep" and then there are the people of the community who are buying the ads, both during local insertions of news, and during spot breaks in the satellite programming. They may want somethings from this transaction in addition to the response of someone coming into their business to buy an advertised item.

We may have spoiled them in past years. These LOCAL sponsors live and die by whether their community is healthy and financially vibrant instead of stale and dying. They expect the local media, in addition to delivering the advertising message, be something of a cheerleader making people happy and proud to live in the community. If 80 or 85% of your program content on a radio station is canned from far, far way, you are doing little or nothing to serve as the cheerleader for localness FOR THOSE WHO PAY THE BILL. That tends to unbalance the see-saw.

Maybe that is such a small issue that it isn't worth worrying about. Maybe it is the "life and death issue" for radio long term. Time will tell.

 

[amfmxm]

This topic, or a variation of it, has come up several times on these boards in recent years. And usually I chime in with a vote for localism based on the notion that if all else is equal--music, signal, talent, et cetera--local information (in whatever form--a coming storm, a big game, a mention of Brighton Beach for a Brooklynite)--might be the differentiating piece of the puzzle that tips the scale. Back when programming consultants were the rage I think they called it "relateability"--being able to relate to the listener... or, at least, being perceived as being "one of us."

(BTW, people do drive from NYC to Florida every day listening to the same station nowadays--on Sirius/XM. So having the same luxury via online audio probably won't be seen as a big deal--though other aspects of it certainly will).

FWIW, our outfit has a number of full-service radio stations emphasizing localism in all its forms--and they do very, very well. We also have a number of format jukeboxes (or "ipods with an FM transmitter") and they do okay, as well.

Which brings up the point I'll add to today's conversation. Radio has long been an industry segmented by station and by format to serve many different demographic slices of the listening audience (the community). Last time I looked, Arbitron and/or the late R&R had identified about 20 viable radio formats. But even within those 20 there were another 10 or 15 subsets (AC= Hot AC, Mainstream AC, Soft AC... News/Talk= All News, Political Talk, Relationship Talk, Hot Talk, Sports Talk).

For these purposes, let's say there are 40 "slices"--or different programming positions--in the radio universe. If each slice represented an equal share of the audience, all formats would have a 2.5 share (2.5% of all listening).

My hunch is that "localism" and/or "relatability" is a difference maker to a certain percentage of people... and another percentage does not--and never will--give a rat's ass about such things. They listen for music and only music--and anything/everything that isn't music is just an interruption or an irritation.

Maybe it's easier to see when we consider "news." You may be aware, courtesy of last year's election... or the continuing series of major issues confronting the U.S. right now--as well as the rest of the world--that there are people (PLENTY OF PEOPLE) who have absolutely NO IDEA that any of this is going on.

Because they have no interest in such things, and they can choose their media accordingly. They watch re-runs of M*A*S*H or "Real Life" or WWE or "Jon & Kate"... they listen to music-and-music-only-radio... or just the songs they've dumped into their iPod... and they don't read. And they don't care. (Though they still get to vote). Scary, huh?

And "localism" means nothing to these folks, either.

But, for others, it works. And if you think of it this way, "localism" becomes one more bullet in the programming arsenal to use with the right stations in the right markets for the right demographic target. But not for all.

Food for thought...

 

[TVradioguru]

My hunch is that "localism" and/or "relatability" is a difference maker to a certain percentage of people... and another percentage does not--and never will--give a rat's ass about such things. They listen for music and only music--and anything/everything that isn't music is just an interruption or an irritation.

Maybe it's easier to see when we consider "news." You may be aware, courtesy of last year's election... or the continuing series of major issues confronting the U.S. right now--as well as the rest of the world--that there are people (PLENTY OF PEOPLE) who have absolutely NO IDEA that any of this is going on.

And "localism" means nothing to these folks, either.

But, for others, it works. And if you think of it this way, "localism" becomes one more bullet in the programming arsenal to use with the right stations in the right markets for the right demographic target. But not for all.

Food for thought...

Excellent points! Audience research shows that smaller market listeners/viewers when asked do appreciate the locally owned or operated broadcast facility, but in reality they prefer to listen or watch large markets. That's why someone in Medford Oregon would prefer to listen or watch a station in Seattle or Portland. Someone who lived in Redding, CA., would rather get their news or information from a San Francisco broadcaster.

Small stations can't afford to hire talent that sounds large market and even if they had someone that sounded exceptional, the talent wouldn't remain in a small market long making minimum wage. This is why many small market stations go with syndicated programming with researched music and big-city sound/talent.

 

[gr8oldies]

The station I mentioned also does "it's great in __________" announcements, which is good. As far as any need to replace existing syndicated talent with a local body in the chair, I don't see that need, and if they did, there is a lot of difference in the interests of the core city and the suburbs. If you were going to spend a lot of time on the nuances of politics in the core city, that turns the suburbs off completely.

 

[John FL]

Interesting posts. As I think about big vs. small market, I think it still comes down to personal preferences as to what turns us on. When growing up and living in NJ, I never thought when I listened to WABC that I was listening to a New York station. Especially in the winter months, I was able to pull in CKLW earlier in the evening and I enjoyed what I heard because they leaned heavy into Motown and Soul. As time went on by the early 70s, a northern NJ Top 40 station came on that I suppose was in the definition of local. They didn't do much for me.

As GRC pointed out, I wonder if PDs use info about area transplants although I think that kind of undertaking would not really be worth all the effort because population is such a moving target for just one reason. If we look at one format such as Classic Hits, I would suspect a PD could use past music surveys of the local hit music stations of yesterday to get a feel for the type songs that were the most popular. I am aware that WCBS FM has done special programming using WABC, WMCA and Z-100 music lists.

Before classic hits and oldies was the format designation, I think we can agree most burned out the same 300 core songs. But in my travels, I did notice there was a song here and there that were in rotation that weren't normally heard. I always thought these represented a reflection of what worked in the local market. In all the years I lived in S. Fla, it was once in a blue moon I heard songs such as "Polk Salad Annie" and "Navy Blue" on the oldies station. When I got to Jax, I heard these every day it seemed. We are a big navy town so I suppose Diane Renay's song remained popular. This city slicker had no idea what polk salad was until my neighbor gave me the scoop one day when I was pulling out weeds and I was told it grows like crazy here.

There may be other outfits that practice this but CBS Radio seems to believe in not taking a cookie cutter approach with their classic hits format and I think that's a good thing. Occasionally I listen to their Philly station and it's heavy into disco, Motown and Soul. Their sister station in Orlando is practiclaly a classic rock/80s alternative station.

I wouldn't be too quick in broadbrushing local talent in small markets. When I've hit the road, there are lots of little gems out there.I suppose where the stakes aren't as high, those on the air actually sound like they are enjoying themselves and they have lots more latitude. To me that's localism at its best but like moms and pops across the country, enjoy them while you can.

 

[gr8oldies]

There are statistics available about how many people move in and move out in a given period of time. You just have to do your research on the population that lives in your city now. That is a problem with trying to include "regional hits" in oldies or classic hits formats. In most metro areas you have a substantial par of the audience who never heard hem because they didn't live there.

It's a different issue when it comes to bedroom communities of large cities that may have at one time had a radio station that served the bedroom community but moved in the city. How many people who live in, say, Brownsburg, Indiana grew up in Brownsburg, went to high school there and then after college, located there. A lot of people didn't...they picked the "Indianapolis" community that they liked, found a house they liked or could afford, and thus, probably wouldn't listen to the "all Brownsburg, all the time station" if it did exist.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

gr8oldies: The issues you just described are very, very difficult to measure and respond to. I have found Atlanta and Indianapolis to be so different from each other in some of the areas you discussed.

But Louisville of 35 years ago was unlike either Atlanta or Indianapolis in how people in various suburbs relate to the "total metro community" and how they relate to other suburbs.

Since radio people when gathered like we are around these boards have such diverse ideas about what programming should be, it is likely that if we pulled four to six people together at a station (GM, SM, programming people, news if you have any) and tried to agree on a profile of our communities, it could well be a chaotic discussion!

There are suburbs where the "corporate gypsies" live. These are people who are career focused and have probably already lived in several cities. They will see community one way. In another suburb you might find primarily people who grew up in rural areas and migrated to the metro area for greater employment opportunities. These people do not have a mindset that they will be living in another metro area a thousand miles away in 4 years. (The first group WILL assume they are moving soon in many cases.)

But if you live in Terre Haute, IN or Joplin, MO or Watertown, NY we have a whole new set of possible attitudes toward community, localism, or what was the term that amfmxm used.... "relateability" or something.



Now that I think about it, I have NEVER heard of a person claiming to be a "socializing relationships analyst" for the broadcasting world. I don't recall anyone every worrying about it out loud. But virtually EVERYBODY I ever knew in broadcasting was confident they understood the concept, and most of them assume it is consistent where ever they go.

 

[firepoint525]

This is a very unusual situation (or maybe not), but here in the Nashville area, I do not need to move back home (in my case, west Tennessee) to be reminded of home. Back in the late '80s, Larry Stovesand, a Paducah Ford car dealer, was a regular fixture in the Paducah, Kentucky, television market. (We were too far west to be in the Nashville market, and too far north to be considered the Memphis market, but we were only an hour south of Paducah.) Fast forward to around 2004 or so, and Larry, with maybe a little more gray hair than I remembered, is now on TV here in Nashville doing commercials for his own namesake dealership, Larry Stovesand Lincoln Mercury. He gives out a website, http://www.buyfromlarry.com on his ads, in case any of you are really curious about him.

Of course, almost no matter where I lived, I could see Dan Walters doing car ads!

 

[TheBigA]

The part that most folks don't seem to get is that localsim means more than what you put on the air. It means having a presence in the community. THAT is localism, and you can do it with syndication, if you know what you're doing. A radio station is more than a tower and transmitter. It's a brand that should be everywhere. You should own your town. That means making deals with other local things, from the newspaper to the area concert venue to the mall.

 

[Prais]

Wow, Firepoint,
One of my earliest radio jobs was at (then) 10kw WDXR, Paducah. with the wonderful schaefer automation system.

I estimate it was 1974 or ther abouts working for Lady Sarah McKinney-Smith, a sweetheart....I also did alot of different stuff for wdxr-tv, when it was an independent, prior to the pbs switch.

I got a LOT of speeding tickets from the Illinois state police Saturdays, driving back to my parents home in Chicago.

 

[firepoint525]

I estimate it was 1974 or ther abouts working for Lady Sarah McKinney-Smith, a sweetheart....I also did alot of different stuff for wdxr-tv, when it was an independent, prior to the pbs switch.

I was not aware that WDXR ever became a PBS affil. I just remember them going off the air for good. And even that was about 30 years or so ago. Weren't they on channel 29?

 

[Prais]

WKPD Channel 29

Programming: PBS

ID: "KET"

City: Paducah, KY

Owner: Kentucky Authority for Educational TV

Web Site: http://www.ket.org/

Station Info: Digital Educational Full-Power - 145 kW

Market: Paducah - Cape Girardeau - Harrisburg

WKPD is a television station in Paducah, KY that serves the Paducah - Cape Girardeau - Harrisburg television market. The station runs programming from the PBS network and identifies itself as "KET". WKPD is a digital educational full-power television station that operates with 145 kilowatts of power and is owned by Kentucky Authority for Educational TV.

s

 

[firepoint525]

WKPD Channel 29
Programming: PBS
ID: "KET"
City: Paducah, KY
Owner: Kentucky Authority for Educational TV
Web Site: http://www.ket.org/
Station Info: Digital Educational Full-Power - 145 kW
Market: Paducah - Cape Girardeau - Harrisburg
WKPD is a television station in Paducah, KY that serves the Paducah - Cape Girardeau - Harrisburg television market. The station runs programming from the PBS network and identifies itself as "KET". WKPD is a digital educational full-power television station that operates with 145 kilowatts of power and is owned by Kentucky Authority for Educational TV.

This is all news to me. However, as a (west) Tennessean, I could get PBS from channel 11 in Lexington/Martin, which at one time took a feed directly from channel 10 in Memphis.

 

[pocket-radio]

What does local mean? who cares! You're competing in a world where listeners can now listen to what they want, when they want. The fact that the foo fighters are playing on my local station is meaningless, so long as it's my favorite song. Relevance is more important than local. Are you relevant to my needs?

CNN doesn't have to be local to be relevant to my need for information.
I don't have to read the local newspaper anymore to receive local news and information, it's everywhere on the web today..

So what's left?

something you can't find everyplace, passion! being local ain't it

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

something you can't find everyplace, passion! being local ain't it

If your passion is music... it is likely that what you have said is very true.... for you in particular.

If your passion is national politics... it is likely that what you have said is very true... particularly for the people who follow the big-name national talkers.

If your passion is national and international sports... it is likely that what you have said is very true.

We don't know what percentage of the potential radio audience makes up these three groups but the industry does cater to these three identifiable groups.

But what about the people with two left feet that don't dance and can't carry a tune. They don't turn on the radio for music.

But what about the people with two left hands who felt left out on the playground because they couldn't successfully play ball. They may not be interested in walking across the room to turn on a sports station.

And what about the people who made good grades and studied social studies and find today's political scene a bit rowdy and sub-human.

There are actually people in the world who want to know what the city council decided last night about the big zoning issue. People who want to know if the governor is going to fix the scandal in their local district hiway office. Who want to know what is happening at the local fairgrounds this weekend. Who want the latest rumors about the cranberry industry if that is active in their locality, or what is happening in the chicken business if you live where I live. Who want to to know how the 6th grade baseball program at the local Y is going. YOU WON'T HEAR ABOUT THAT from the ESPN crowd on sports/talk radio.

This whole radio thing is not and does not have to be either/or. With this glut, this oversupply of radio stations, we should be able to have European Sweedish Techno-dance for those who want it, we should have the descendants of Howard Cossell arguing major league sports 27 hours a day, and still have a channel or two left over to discuss how many vendors will have booths in Dahlonega this weekend for the Gold Rush Festival.

If you work in radio and you spend your off hours in the sports bar where they argue for hours about Brett Farve, then you are likely a person who will say: "Why do we waste all this time arguing about localness in radio?"

If you live in or near the town where you were born, and your off hours are spent at PTA meetings, you are a member of the country library board, your wife was just elected to the office of Elder in the church where you were married, and you operate a business which lives or dies based on how many people show up for the steam engine parade and other tourist events in your community, you are likely a person who will say: "Why doesn't my radio station focus on local events and issues?"

 

[TheBigA]

This whole radio thing is not and does not have to be either/or. With this glut, this oversupply of radio stations, we should be able to have European Sweedish Techno-dance for those who want it,

You're right. The problem is that only a handful of formats can make money. And so you end up with ten stations in a town all playing the same records, reading the same jokes, and talking about the same issues they get from CNN.

Radio would be a whole lot better if it didn't have to make money. If it was just a public appliance that people had to buy, and the station received a regular grant every month from the government. That was the concept behind public radio in 1967. Take the money, ratings, and competition thing out of running a radio station. Money just shows up every month. Then the gov't decided it didn't want to pay for it. Pulled the rug out, and left public radio fighting for money with everyone else.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

You're right. The problem is that only a handful of formats can make money. And so you end up with ten stations in a town all playing the same records, reading the same jokes, and talking about the same issues they get from CNN.

You and I are pretty much in agreement here. The little point I am making is this: When EVERYBODY wants to be #1 and all realize there is one and only one route that gets you there, they end up like you described: All ten doing the same thing and splitting the market that wants to buy that sound... no, wants to buy THAT AUDIENCE.

Look at restaurants. They just closed the most exclusive restaurant in all of Atlanta. If you plan to run a Five Star Restaurant you invest heavily in a LOT of stuff and a lot of people.

Some operators will take on a franchise for something nice, but not exclusive: The white cloth tablecloth in a nationally known brand.

Some operators will take on something like Arbys, KFC, IHOP, etc.

I'll skip over some layers. We get to the guy that buys a used cargo trailer, cuts in some windows, installs the minimal equipment and now he drags the thing to weekend art festivals in little day-trip towns; to small local fairs; to the 4th of July celebration on the town square. He sells Polish Sausage Hotdogs, french fries and lemonade shakeups.

They are all in the food business. They all have to have a business license. They all have to be inspected by the health department. The are all reputable.... they don't have to be ashamed of showing up at church, putting some money in the plate and chatting with the preacher or the priest or the rabbi on the way out. Today we might include the imam in that group of clergy.

The guy with the hot-dog stand is the like the radio station doing the Swedish European Techno Dance. Small audience. Small gross. But he accomplishes his goal at the end of the year. I will not attempt to assign a particular class of restaurant or brand of restaurant to the particular genre of radio format for that would surely start a "food fight" (pun intentional) on where in the economic scale and prestige scale the various radio programming formats belong.

I've given up on arguing that deregulation of radio per se was a bad move. Maybe it could have been done in such a way that it would be practical for station owners to be able to select a place on the scale and live to tell about it. Deregulation as we know it basically put all stations in one big bowl to fight it out. There are not benefits provided by the FCC rules or the tax law or the business climate for an owner to say: My station should fit in here like an Arbys restaurant while another station owner says: I have a property that should be a fine, downtown, convention center area steak house. We just threw the whole radio industry into one big meat-loaf pan and said: Happy Trails!