La Grande to...

[Bongwater]

If they do, it doesn't sound that way in my part of South King County. 99.3 sounds like a fringe station from my location SE of Seattle.

99.3 still sounds like CFOX up here. It's a shame they geo-blocked south of the border. Oh well. That's what VPNs and proxies are for.

It's pretty much open season on the Seattle frequencies up here. Hispanic Religion is on 94.1. KZAX-LP is 94.9, KMRE-LP is 102.3, KGMI is on 96.5, KBAI on 98.9 and KPUG on 97.9 (so there goes KING-FM. But it wasn't like you could get it up here since they went to Tiger Mountain anyway.)

The crosstalk on the other side makes CBUF 97.7 sound like a quiet little French bistro with a quiet little French DJ playing quiet little French show tunes separated by a razor thin wall next to a noisy American sports bar filled with loudmouth sports freaks.

 

[Bongwater]

Ad Council not add counsel

Awesome. You're up. How does my scenario involving 103.3 I mentioned to Kelly work? (Sorry I didn't mention you or the other engineer guy in the original post as Kelly was the first one I thought of...5:37 on a Sunday morning and all....)

 

[bossbill]

Awesome. You're up. How does my scenario involving 103.3 I mentioned to Kelly work? (Sorry I didn't mention you or the other engineer guy in the original post as Kelly was the first one I thought of...5:37 on a Sunday morning and all....)

The simplest answer is that a fill-in translator is not permitted to extend beyond the originating FM station contour.

 

[Rob Piotrowski]

Ad Council not add counsel

Cut Bob a break...he’s visually impaired and uses a screen reader. Kinda like auto correct.

 

[boombox4]

99.3 still sounds like CFOX up here. It's a shame they geo-blocked south of the border. Oh well. That's what VPNs and proxies are for.

It's pretty much open season on the Seattle frequencies up here. Hispanic Religion is on 94.1. KZAX-LP is 94.9, KMRE-LP is 102.3, KGMI is on 96.5, KBAI on 98.9 and KPUG on 97.9 (so there goes KING-FM. But it wasn't like you could get it up here since they went to Tiger Mountain anyway.)

The crosstalk on the other side makes CBUF 97.7 sound like a quiet little French bistro with a quiet little French DJ playing quiet little French show tunes separated by a razor thin wall next to a noisy American sports bar filled with loudmouth sports freaks.

CBUF used to come in decently in parts of the Seattle area (when you took your boombox or car to a terrain shadow area. Sometimes in stereo.

 

[KXA]

Ad Council not add counsel

Bill, just to let you know...Bob is vision impaired and uses voice recognition software to post for him. Blame the computer.

 

[crainbebo]

I miss hearing CBUX-FM1 on 88.9. Always had a great signal along the Puget Sound waterfronts and Everett northward, and always used to air plenty of great jazz cuts. Not anymore with KPLK and K205FO. 97.7 La Premiere Chaine wasn't as strong in south Snohomish County due to KOMO but they were fine N of Everett.
Not sure why KPUG wanted 97.9...way too close to Vancouver 97.7. And the FM band was still way too full up there a decade ago.

Asking about those KDDS boosters...they're CPs at the moment and I forgot to look. The 99.3 you're hearing is still from the hill NW of Shelton.
http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?sCurrentService=FM&tabSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=1289865

 

[bobdavcav]

I can still get CBUX-FM-1 from where I'm at. A couple summers ago, I even heard KMIH over it. I've never gotten KPLK down here.

 

[swhyde1980]

I'm thinking 103.3 will end up being a different Spanish format from 99.3. Spanish soft rock maybe?

 

[DavidEduardo]

I'm thinking 103.3 will end up being a different Spanish format from 99.3. Spanish soft rock maybe?

"Soft Rock" is not a format in Spanish. The likely alternative formats are just two in a market with under 10% Hispanic population:

1) Rhythmic CHR. This is often the #2 Spanish language format across the West / Southwest. Think "Despacito" as representative of the style.

2) Spanish language adult hits. The non-extreme hits in ballad, pop, softer regional / grupera music of the last 30 to 40 years. Like a "Jack" station but without any traces of rock. Bustos is fond of this format, but it has been on a general decline for half a decade at least.

Rock in Spanish is not a viable format. The only real success of the format ever has been in Argentina, and that was more than a decade ago. Elsewhere in Latin America, rock stations play 80% or more English language rock, with occasional Spanish language songs tossed in for variety (or for regulatory reasons, such as in Venezuela where local content is required).

 

[swhyde1980]

"Soft Rock" is not a format in Spanish. The likely alternative formats are just two in a market with under 10% Hispanic population:

1) Rhythmic CHR. This is often the #2 Spanish language format across the West / Southwest. Think "Despacito" as representative of the style.

2) Spanish language adult hits. The non-extreme hits in ballad, pop, softer regional / grupera music of the last 30 to 40 years. Like a "Jack" station but without any traces of rock. Bustos is fond of this format, but it has been on a general decline for half a decade at least.

Rock in Spanish is not a viable format. The only real success of the format ever has been in Argentina, and that was more than a decade ago. Elsewhere in Latin America, rock stations play 80% or more English language rock, with occasional Spanish language songs tossed in for variety (or for regulatory reasons, such as in Venezuela where local content is required).

Sounds like either could be a fit for the market.

 

[Kelly A]

Awesome. You're up. How does my scenario involving 103.3 I mentioned to Kelly work? (Sorry I didn't mention you or the other engineer guy in the original post as Kelly was the first one I thought of...5:37 on a Sunday morning and all....)

Sorry Larry, I fell behind in the discussion. What's the question?

 

[bobdavcav]

"Soft Rock" is not a format in Spanish. The likely alternative formats are just two in a market with under 10% Hispanic population:

1) Rhythmic CHR. This is often the #2 Spanish language format across the West / Southwest. Think "Despacito" as representative of the style.

2) Spanish language adult hits. The non-extreme hits in ballad, pop, softer regional / grupera music of the last 30 to 40 years. Like a "Jack" station but without any traces of rock. Bustos is fond of this format, but it has been on a general decline for half a decade at least.

Rock in Spanish is not a viable format. The only real success of the format ever has been in Argentina, and that was more than a decade ago. Elsewhere in Latin America, rock stations play 80% or more English language rock, with occasional Spanish language songs tossed in for variety (or for regulatory reasons, such as in Venezuela where local content is required).

Interesting! Is that Spanish-language rock station still around and if so does it stream? That would be an interesting concept.

 

[bobdavcav]

Sorry Larry, I fell behind in the discussion. What's the question?

I think the question is, could 103.3 be turned into a superstation of sorts, with KMCQ, the downtown translator, and the Shelton translator? My semi-educated answer to that is yes, but it would take a lot of work, as KMCQ would first need to be upgraded to HD I would think, if for no other reason than to keep all the transmitters synchronized. Then they would have to either upgrade 99.3 to HD as well, or lease space on someone else's HD-2 to feed the two translators. Then, in theory at least, it could be done. I think what recently happened in Denver is a case to watch when it comes to synchronized transmitters, to see how that works.

 

[Kelly A]

I think the question is, could 103.3 be turned into a superstation of sorts, with KMCQ, the downtown translator, and the Shelton translator? Then, in theory at least, it could be done.

There is a little matter of a Class C station atop West Tiger Mt. at 103.7Mhz that would prevent that suggestion.

I think what recently happened in Denver is a case to watch when it comes to synchronized transmitters, to see how that works.

I believe what you're referring to is an FM on-channel booster. FM boosters are used to fill in holes caused by terrain, but as with FM translators, can't exceed the boundary of the primary station coverage area. Unlike translators, boosters are on the same frequency as the primary station. The problem with boosters, is confining the area where the primary station and booster signals overlap (and they always do), to areas that are less populated because of severe multipath at the receiver within the overlap zone.

In spite of booster and primary station exciters being locked to a common reference like GPS, the distance between the booster and the primary to a receiver in the overlap zone will be delayed to the receiver within the zone. The net effect is creation of a self inflicted multipath zone where the two signals overlap with similar field strength.

For those who don't know what the definition of multipath is: Multipath is a natural phenomenon where the signal of a station arrives at a receiver, while a delayed reflection of the same signal (or multiple reflections) arrive at the receiver slightly later. The receiver can't distinguish which signal is the correct one, so in worst case situations the delayed signal arriving out of time with the direct signal, effectively cancels each other out. As mentioned, with a booster, you are actually creating a multipath situation within the station coverage area.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Interesting! Is that Spanish-language rock station still around and if so does it stream? That would be an interesting concept.

It's Mega 98.3 in Buenos Aires. There are a variety of sources for the stream, so just search for "Mega 98.3" and "Buenos Aires" and you will find one that actually works.

The station debuted in April, 2000 and immediately went to #1 in that 200+ station market. It remained #1 for the following 5 years that I was involved with it as programmer, but then a new owner diluted the concept and it now sits around 6th or so in the market. At one point, it was the highest cuming station in the Western Hemisphere.

The station only plays rock by Argentine artists, thus its slogan of "puro rock nacional" ("Just Argentine Rock")

 

[bobdavcav]

There is a little matter of a Class C station atop West Tiger Mt. at 103.7Mhz that would prevent that suggestion.



I believe what you're referring to is an FM on-channel booster. FM boosters are used to fill in holes caused by terrain, but as with FM translators, can't exceed the boundary of the primary station coverage area. Unlike translators, boosters are on the same frequency as the primary station. The problem with boosters, is confining the area where the primary station and booster signals overlap (and they always do), to areas that are less populated because of severe multipath at the receiver within the overlap zone.

In spite of booster and primary station exciters being locked to a common reference like GPS, the distance between the booster and the primary to a receiver in the overlap zone will be delayed to the receiver within the zone. The net effect is creation of a self inflicted multipath zone where the two signals overlap with similar field strength.

For those who don't know what the definition of multipath is: Multipath is a natural phenomenon where the signal of a station arrives at a receiver, while a delayed reflection of the same signal (or multiple reflections) arrive at the receiver slightly later. The receiver can't distinguish which signal is the correct one, so in worst case situations the delayed signal arriving out of time with the direct signal, effectively cancels each other out. As mentioned, with a booster, you are actually creating a multipath situation within the station coverage area.

If Bustos were to buy the two translators maybe even in exchange for space on 103.7 HD3, I don't see an issue with it, though there might be an issue with upgrading 103.3 to HD. As for Denver, you must not follow the news nationally. What happened was iHeart moved KBPI from 106.7 to 107.9 in Fort Collins. They already had a 107.9 translator that as far as I know was running KOA in Denver proper, and an existing rock station, KDZA, in Colorado Springs. The 107.9 translator flipped to a simulcast of the Fort Collins signal when the rock format moved from 106.7, fed by KPTT-HD2. A few days later, the station in the springs dumped its separate Active Rock format for a simulcast of the two other stations.

 

[Kelly A]

If Bustos were to buy the two translators maybe even in exchange for space on 103.7 HD3, I don't see an issue with it, though there might be an issue with upgrading 103.3 to HD.

Your make believe scenarios are business-related involving Entercom, nothing to do with Larry's original question, which (according to you speaking for Larry) was whether the Entercom 103.3 translator could be upgraded and moved. If Entercom were to work a deal with any other group for their HD-whatever channel, use of their translators, whatever, that's done by their management. That said; Bustos are notoriously cheap, so somehow I doubt they would pony up what Entercom would want to rent their HD-whatever stream or translators. Frankly, to me your analysis is silly, but everyone needs a hobby.

As for Denver, you must not follow the news nationally. What happened was iHeart moved KBPI from 106.7 to 107.9 in Fort Collins. They already had a 107.9 translator that as far as I know was running KOA in Denver proper, and an existing rock station, KDZA, in Colorado Springs. The 107.9 translator flipped to a simulcast of the Fort Collins signal when the rock format moved from 106.7, fed by KPTT-HD2. A few days later, the station in the springs dumped its separate Active Rock format for a simulcast of the two other stations.

Okay this is all over the place Bob. Now you're talking about Denver. You're right, I don't follow format changes or frequency swaps in Denver. I plead guilty on that front, but nor do I care. As a reminder; you asked about a scenario involving the 103.3 Entercom downtown translator, and I answered that question. You talked about boosters, and I attempted to inform you what challenges there are with boosters. Asked and answered. To that point, I'm happy to answer further what I know when your train of thought gets back on the rails.

 

[Bongwater]

OK, I get it. It doesn't work.

 

[bobdavcav]

Your make believe scenarios are business-related involving Entercom, nothing to do with Larry's original question, which (according to you speaking for Larry) was whether the Entercom 103.3 translator could be upgraded and moved. If Entercom were to work a deal with any other group for their HD-whatever channel, use of their translators, whatever, that's done by their management. That said; Bustos are notoriously cheap, so somehow I doubt they would pony up what Entercom would want to rent their HD-whatever stream or translators. Frankly, to me your analysis is silly, but everyone needs a hobby.



Okay this is all over the place Bob. Now you're talking about Denver. You're right, I don't follow format changes or frequency swaps in Denver. I plead guilty on that front, but nor do I care. As a reminder; you asked about a scenario involving the 103.3 Entercom downtown translator, and I answered that question. You talked about boosters, and I attempted to inform you what challenges there are with boosters. Asked and answered. To that point, I'm happy to answer further what I know when your train of thought gets back on the rails.

Since when did I say Entercom and Bustos making a deal was probable or even likely? I was saying that, in theory, such a scenario could work, but thought it a longshot. As for Denver, I thought that scenario which happened about a month and a half ago, would give an idea of what such a scenario might sound like should it be tried here, though there would be some differences south of the city, if they were also to try for the Shelton translator on 103.3.