KOST #1 6+ Again

[Sammo770]

Not only number one overall but #1 middays and tied for #1 afternoon drive. The move of Mark Wallengren to afternoon drive seems to be paying off!

 

[robnokshus06]

Wait for it...

 

[K.M. Richards]

Yes, yes, let's get all excited about the 6+ numbers again.

David will be along in a minute to talk about the demos. I'm tired of dealing with this pointless idiocy.

As the character Isabel von Schöenenberg said as the last line of dialogue in the Walter Matthau movie Hopscotch (which I recommend the viewing of as an alternative to making meaningless posts here): "Will you never learn?"

 

[DavidEduardo]

Yes, yes, let's get all excited about the 6+ numbers again.

David will be along in a minute to talk about the demos. I'm tired of dealing with this pointless idiocy.

In order, Top 25-54
KIIS
KBIG
KOST
Jack
KYSR
KRTH
KROQ
KLVE
KTWV
KAMP
KLOS
KRRL
KSCA
KLAX
KPWR
KFI
KSWD
KRCD

Share spread between #1 and #18 is 3.0 points. KOST is a full share behind the leader.

 

[Art Landing]

KM, I think everyone is aware that, for those selling time and running stations, the 6+ numbers aren’t' the most meaningful. This is because ad buyers in the 21st century generally prefer and use more nuanced demographics. Do I “get it?” I think so and am in agreement with you

Can you on your part agree that, for those of us who are non-professionals who are simply radio fans or radio history buffs, the 6+ numbers do have a value? They help us get a general picture that we appreciate because, unnuanced though it may be, its free and regularly available.?

In the current release I am intrigued to see KYSR climbing into the top 10, giving Ihat fully ½ of the set while KFI jumped a bit as well. In light of speculation both about the impact of HD simulcasting and finding a home for the Rams these two developments I find, as a fan, intriguing. If I had access to the more detailed non-6+ reports it would of course be even more intriguing, which is why I appreciate David's sharing. It apppears that in the most preferred demographic KYSR is even stronger. The point is that 6+ isn't, for some of us, "pointless idiocy" simply because its Carl's Jr compared to Ruth's Chris. We are able to see trends here and I appreciate their availability.

Am I saying that David is Wolfgang Puck as compared to the new hire part time fry cook? Probably - but the burger flipper can still supply a satisfactory lunch when one is hungry. No need to denigrate the one because he other is a master.

http://ratings.radio-online.com/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb003

 

[K.M. Richards]

KM, I think everyone is aware that, for those selling time and running stations, the 6+ numbers aren’t' the most meaningful. This is because ad buyers in the 21st century generally prefer and use more nuanced demographics. Do I “get it?” I think so and am in agreement with you

Can you on your part agree that, for those of us who are non-professionals who are simply radio fans or radio history buffs, the 6+ numbers do have a value? They help us get a general picture that we appreciate because, unnuanced though it may be, its free and regularly available.?

Since you phrase it so completely and politely, Art, let me give you an equally polite and complete answer.

Yes, you do understand that the reason 6+ numbers aren't very meaningful is that they do not give an accurate picture of a station's performance in its target demo, which is what the ad buyers look at.

But it has also been proven, time and again, that when one does look at the target demo for any given station, it mismatches the 6+ performance nearly as much as it matches. I don't think it's terribly fair to the non-professional radio fans and history buffs to get all excited about numbers which do not really tell them how their favorite stations are doing.

That's one reason why David and I try to put as much demographic-based information out here as we legally can under Nielsen's terms of service. It gives the non-pros a valid basis for cheering or worrying. Therefore, fairness to the fans and buffs practically dictates that we not get all worked up about the 6+ numbers and instead wait for numbers in the proper perspective.

At least, that's how I've seen it all along ...

 

[david]

Thoughts on March 2016 LA Ratings

Thoughts:
* Well said "Art Landing".
* IIRC, KYSR has never topped KROQ.
* KLOS seems to be making a comeback now that it has been infused with a wee bit of DNA from the late great Indie 103.1.
* KTWV has done a nice job of reinventing themselves since the demise of KHHT
* Similarly, what is spiking KCBS-FM's upward move as of late?
* What is preventing KAMP from moving past 60% of KIIS's audience?
* KFI is finally showing some progress with its now year old live and local approach
* KCRW remains a bit ahead of KPCC - it used to be traditionally the reverse order
* KXOS has finally moved ahead of its separated at birth call letter near twin KXOL - both of which have toyed with a mixed English/Spanish presentation in the past

 

[DavidEduardo]

Swhich do not really tell them how their favorite stations are doing.

That's one reason why David and I try to put as much demographic-based information out here as we legally can under Nielsen's terms of service. It gives the non-pros a valid basis for cheering or worrying. Therefore, fairness to the fans and buffs practically dictates that we not get all worked up about the 6+ numbers and instead wait for numbers in the proper perspective.

And that's one reason why I'd recommend the allaccess.com ratings summaries, as they generally include 18-34 and 25-54 as well as a bit of verbal perspective. Granted, one must sign up, but I have never been spammed by allaccess sources or vendors, so it's worth the minor inconvenience for the deeper content.

My point of view is that many, if not most, people in the industry do not look at 6+ or 12+ at all. It gives a distorted view of a station performance that is often distracting from the real focus of performing in a station's target. In other words, the data can be dangerous.

 

[TheBigA]

I can't imagine that Entercom is happy with the performance of the sound. Whew.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Thoughts:

* KLOS seems to be making a comeback now that it has been infused with a wee bit of DNA from the late great Indie 103.1.

Indie was a failed station. It generally did not exceed a 1 share and that was 8 years ago.

* KFI is finally showing some progress with its now year old live and local approach

It is down significantly in 25-54, showing how misleading looking at 6+ numbers can be.

* KXOS has finally moved ahead of its separated at birth call letter near twin KXOL - both of which have toyed with a mixed English/Spanish presentation in the past

When was Exitos 93.9 doing an English / Spanish approach? Yes, they played some English songs in one of the 5 or 6 distinct phases of the format, but since going to regional Mexican years ago, there is no comparison with KXOL.

 

[david]

Indie was a failed station. It generally did not exceed a 1 share and that was 8 years ago.

When was Exitos 93.9 doing an English / Spanish approach? Yes, they played some English songs in one of the 5 or 6 distinct phases of the format, but since going to regional Mexican years ago, there is no comparison with KXOL.[/SIZE][/FONT]

KLOS is up in 6+ as of late - which coincides with Indie's GM Dawn Girocco becoming Cumulus' LA market manager and recruiting Indie vets Mark Sovel and Steve Jones. I know you detest (my emphasis, may be too strong an adjective) Indie, but the fact remains that a wee bit of Indie DNA is now part of KLOS.

Two years ago KXOS was making an aggressive push with an English/Spanish hybrid presentation and playing mostly CHR music concurrently heard at that time on KIIS & KAMP. On 1/20/14 it abandoned its bilingual Top 40 format to switch to Regional Mexican and changed its on-air moniker to “Radio Centro 93.9.” Yes, that is when the comparison ended, but for a duration of time it is correct that fraternal call letter twins KXOS and KXOL were fairly similar.

 

[DavidEduardo]

KLOS is up in 6+ as of late - which coincides with Indie's GM Dawn Girocco becoming Cumulus' LA market manager and recruiting Indie vets Mark Sovel and Steve Jones. I know you detest (my emphasis, may be too strong an adjective) Indie, but the fact remains that a wee bit of Indie DNA is now part of KLOS.

I don't hate Indie. I just find that the small group of people who think it was something special to be terminally unaware of the fact that it was not a successful station in any form while it was an effort by Clear Channel via a JSA to chip a bit off of KROQ so the big Clear Channel stations would look better in rankers.

I once worked at KWKW and also at KHJ. Does that mean that KRCD (to name one) has KWKW DNA? I don't think so.

Two years ago KXOS was making an aggressive push with an English/Spanish hybrid presentation and playing mostly CHR music concurrently heard at that time on KIIS & KAMP.

In other words, playing the same songs that were hits all over Latin America on hundreds and hundreds of pop stations. You know, even KLVE went through a period when they played a couple of English songs an hour. Insignificant and unremarkable.

On 1/20/14 it abandoned its bilingual Top 40 format to switch to Regional Mexican and changed its on-air moniker to “Radio Centro 93.9.” Yes, that is when the comparison ended, but for a duration of time it is correct that fraternal call letter twins KXOS and KXOL were fairly similar.

Since neither station uses the calls as part of their identity, giving them once an hour in English for the legal ID, there is no similarity other than a few shared letters in the FCC database.

At the time that KXOS played some English language tunes, what they played was pop while KXOS was playing hip hop. Yet another dissimilarity.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I can't imagine that Entercom is happy with the performance of the sound. Whew.

Maybe that is why I received a survey from them in my email box today that should only take a short 5 minutes to fill out. Hmm...

Well, I don't have five minutes to help them do their market research for free, but I will leave one little tidbit of advice here. Dave Beasing, even though we have been over this before, follow closely here because this is probably going to make your head explode. Ready? Here it is:

PLEASE, for the love God and the music you claim to care about so much, STOP playing music on vinyl with all of its snaps, crackles, and pops, and then proceeding to insult my intelligence by telling he how much better it sounds. I don't know what it is about aging hippies and their classic rock vinyl trips but it has got to stop. The world went to a clearly superior technology called CDs over 30(!) years ago, which is why vinyl disappeared entirely, just like the betamax and TRS-80 computer, only like the zombie apocalypse, vinyl records have returned from the dead. Only in the new millennium, Alice in Wonderland world we live in where up is down, wrong is right, and men can choose whatever bathrooms they want based on how they feel that day, is vinyl superior.

I have flipped from your station on several occasions because of the lower fidelity records you insanely choose to play. My musical ear is not the best, and I know if I can hear it, many others can to, and some percentage of them must have the same reaction, and it is a viscerally negative one. Thus playing vinyl doesn't make you more cool, it certainly doesn't add to your cume (nobody tunes a station in because they are playing vinyl records), but it definitely hurts your TSL. In short, it is an unforced error. Please convert your playlist to at least 1980's technology, quit insulting your hearing audience, and if you feel the need to spin anything, spin CDs .

 

[K.M. Richards]

I have flipped from your station on several occasions because of the lower fidelity records you insanely choose to play. My musical ear is not the best, and I know if I can hear it, many others can to, and some percentage of them must have the same reaction, and it is a viscerally negative one.

And the negative reaction is called "changing stations" and if the person having the negative reaction is a PPM holder, there goes part of the ratings.

Very well put. I can't fathom why Beasing is doing that either. I have some tracks in my master library that had to be created from vinyl because they were never re-released on CD, and those took the longest to master because of what was needed to correct the deficiencies. But that is the only excuse I can think of to play the vinyl version of any song nowadays.

The audience that cared about vinyl was the audience that cared about free-form progressive rock stations back in the 1960s. Are any of those listeners in the Sound's target demo?

I didn't think so.

 

[K.M. Richards]

KLOS is up in 6+ as of late

You could have ended your reply right there. Anything after that didn't matter.

 

[robnokshus06]

Yes, yes, let's get all excited about the 6+ numbers again.

David will be along in a minute to talk about the demos. I'm tired of dealing with this pointless idiocy.

As the character Isabel von Schöenenberg said as the last line of dialogue in the Walter Matthau movie Hopscotch (which I recommend the viewing of as an alternative to making meaningless posts here): "Will you never learn?"

And there it is! Not even 30-minutes!

 

[LKellerIII]

And the negative reaction is called "changing stations" and if the person having the negative reaction is a PPM holder, there goes part of the ratings.

Very well put. I can't fathom why Beasing is doing that either. I have some tracks in my master library that had to be created from vinyl because they were never re-released on CD, and those took the longest to master because of what was needed to correct the deficiencies. But that is the only excuse I can think of to play the vinyl version of any song nowadays.

The audience that cared about vinyl was the audience that cared about free-form progressive rock stations back in the 1960s. Are any of those listeners in the Sound's target demo?

I didn't think so.

I resemble that! I'm one of those old hippies that cared about progressive rock stations back in the 60s, but it doesn't mean I don't prefer new technology. I didn't embrace CDs the first couple of years because I'm also a cheapskate and wait for the prices to come down. But I used CDs exclusively from that point on up until the age of music downloads. Now I rarely listen to CDs. I have a closet full of old vinyl and I keep meaning to transfer the ones I still care about to MP3, but I doubt I'll have the time until I retire.

I am not aware of any stations in the Bay Area that regularly play vinyl. I'm under the impression that stations have their music on hard drive, though I guess some might have turntables sitting around, or can hook them up without too much trouble.

I'm under the impression that vinyl records came back into fashion because rappers and DJs (not radio DJs) were using them as percussion - "scratching," or whatever they called it. Actually listening to old vinyl came later, I think.

 

[Huff]

Thoughts:
* IIRC, KYSR has never topped KROQ.

KYSR has topped KROQ before, the last time being in August 2010. But this is only the 7th time KYSR has topped KROQ in 101 PPM books.

While I fully realize the largely meaningless nature of 6+ numbers, I must contend that they do hold value from a macro perspective - otherwise I would not have spent over a decade compiling the largest database of them from every market ever measured by Arbitron/Nielsen. Prior to ARB's entry into local radio measurement in 1965, there were no such things as "demos" in radio ratings. Pulse, Hooper, Crossley all just measured listeners - no age, no gender. ARB was the first to break the data into demos (which helped ARB quickly achieve dominance in the ratings game over Pulse and Hooper,) but for its first several years ARB only had 2 demos per gender along with teens - and the "25-54" breakout didn't arrive until 1978. So when looking at long-term, market-wide trends, over years and decades, there can be some value in looking at 6+ data. But yes, looking at month to month data in PPM markets and making programming assumptions based upon 6+ data, that is very foolhardy indeed.

 

[semoochie]

KYSR has topped KROQ before, the last time being in August 2010. But this is only the 7th time KYSR has topped KROQ in 101 PPM books.

While I fully realize the largely meaningless nature of 6+ numbers, I must contend that they do hold value from a macro perspective - otherwise I would not have spent over a decade compiling the largest database of them from every market ever measured by Arbitron/Nielsen. Prior to ARB's entry into local radio measurement in 1965, there were no such things as "demos" in radio ratings. Pulse, Hooper, Crossley all just measured listeners - no age, no gender. ARB was the first to break the data into demos (which helped ARB quickly achieve dominance in the ratings game over Pulse and Hooper,) but for its first several years ARB only had 2 demos per gender along with teens - and the "25-54" breakout didn't arrive until 1978. So when looking at long-term, market-wide trends, over years and decades, there can be some value in looking at 6+ data. But yes, looking at month to month data in PPM markets and making programming assumptions based upon 6+ data, that is very foolhardy indeed.

I brought this up about ten years ago and no one agreed with me. I thought I remembered the "money demos" changing from 25-49 to 25-54 but decided I must have imagined the whole thing. It seemed earlier though, like early 70s and I thought it was some kind of public announcement. Thank you, I feel better now.

 

[K.M. Richards]

My recollection of when the 25-54 demo breakout was added is approximately the same as Huff's, but my memory is fuzzy about details like those after close to 40 years. I'll defer to his timeline as he seems to have done the research, but I'll also dig around and see if I still have any copies of Arbitron books from that era, if for no other reason but to confirm his data.