June 2023 Bay Area Radio PPM Ratings

[Weiserguy]

I’m surprised Audacy chose to send him to resurrect the SF alternative station instead of saving the one the company had in New York

1010 WINS is a legacy station that's one of the top 10 billers in the country. It was more important to protect that franchise than to obsess over an also-ran Alt station in a market that has demonstrated it couldn't care less about Alt.

OTOH, KITS at least had a legacy in Alt -- one that CBS and Audacy had done all they could to trash until very recently -- and not many other good options for 105.3. Remember, "Dave" was a flop, and KCBS was the first of the CBS-legacy All-News stations to start a simulcast and transition their audience over from the AM to the FM, so that option was off the table. About the only thing they could have done (IMO) was to shift KGMZ The Game from the inferior 95.7 to the better 105.3 signal and then sell 95.7 to someone. (Even there, who was going to be a buyer? EMF?)

 

[DavidEduardo]

Uh, no. Country has failed multiple times in San Francisco. It has worked acceptably well in San Jose (KRTY and now KBAY) and Santa Rosa (KFGY and KJZY-HD2), even if it hasn't set the market on fire, so that's where it's destined to remain. I doubt any station on or near Sutro Tower are going to take that risk again.

Again, both Santa Rosa and San Jose are part of the San Francisco markets. I have doubts that the San Jose Nielsen book will continue much longer. The consolidation of retail and lack of local large advertisers just for San Jose make the book less than useful, and most stations are now in ethnic formats that either do not use the book or sell principally off San Francisco's total market book.

 

[HenryOchs]

1010 WINS is a legacy station that's one of the top 10 billers in the country. It was more important to protect that franchise than to obsess over an also-ran Alt station in a market that has demonstrated it couldn't care less about Alt.

OTOH, KITS at least had a legacy in Alt -- one that CBS and Audacy had done all they could to trash until very recently -- and not many other good options for 105.3. Remember, "Dave" was a flop, and KCBS was the first of the CBS-legacy All-News stations to start a simulcast and transition their audience over from the AM to the FM, so that option was off the table. About the only thing they could have done (IMO) was to shift KGMZ The Game from the inferior 95.7 to the better 105.3 signal and then sell 95.7 to someone. (Even there, who was going to be a buyer? EMF?)

How about Eagle Communications buying 95.7? Then they should consider buying KRBQ

 

[CTListener]

Again, both Santa Rosa and San Jose are part of the San Francisco markets. I have doubts that the San Jose Nielsen book will continue much longer. The consolidation of retail and lack of local large advertisers just for San Jose make the book less than useful, and most stations are now in ethnic formats that either do not use the book or sell principally off San Francisco's total market book.

Could the elimination of the San Jose book jeopardize KBAY's country format, as share and ratings would be dragged down in the combined book by San Francisco's near total rejection of country music? Or has KBAY found San Jose-focused advertisers that will remain loyal even if the numbers fall?

 

[MarkW]

Whether 105.3's signal is better than 95.7 depends where you are. Not enough of a difference to justify a format swap, and swaps don't always go smoothly, either.

 

[TheBigA]

I’m surprised Audacy chose to send him to resurrect the SF alternative station instead of saving the one the company had in New York

My recollection is that Aller's boss Mike Kaplan was in charge of WNYL. When that station flipped, his boss left the company.

Allers had oversight of several west coast alternative stations, including Sacramento. So that's likely why he was chosen.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Could the elimination of the San Jose book jeopardize KBAY's country format, as share and ratings would be dragged down in the combined book by San Francisco's near total rejection of country music? Or has KBAY found San Jose-focused advertisers that will remain loyal even if the numbers fall?

Very few advertisers use the San Jose book. They look at the SF book and decide if they want to use stations that cover only part of the market.

Of course, advertisers that buy the San Francisco book can "create" a San Jose book or a "South Bay" book if they want to as the data is all there.

Just as in LA, we can create an Orange County book or a San Gabriel or San Fernando Valley book or a South Central book and so on.

 

[Mark Roberts]

1010 WINS is a legacy station that's one of the top 10 billers in the country. It was more important to protect that franchise than to obsess over an also-ran Alt station in a market that has demonstrated it couldn't care less about Alt.

OTOH, KITS at least had a legacy in Alt -- one that CBS and Audacy had done all they could to trash until very recently -- and not many other good options for 105.3. Remember, "Dave" was a flop, and KCBS was the first of the CBS-legacy All-News stations to start a simulcast and transition their audience over from the AM to the FM, so that option was off the table. About the only thing they could have done (IMO) was to shift KGMZ The Game from the inferior 95.7 to the better 105.3 signal and then sell 95.7 to someone. (Even there, who was going to be a buyer? EMF?)

Largely agreed, though I think KGMZ is pretty much beyond hope.

There was a lot of brand equity in Live 105 though version 2, CBS and afterwards, certainly had its ups and downs. After "Dave" stumbled into the picture, there was at least some effort to keep the brand alive on an HD-2 channel and, I believe, streaming, until Audacy's financial stresses put that at an end. My own guess, and I'll admit that it's a guess, is that Audacy thought the brand had enough of a rest for people to remember the good things about it while forgetting the misfires and bad outcomes. As a consequence, the brand could be revived with all the good memories and a lot less of the baggage. Thus we now have version 3 of Live 105, still something of a work in progress, but indications are that people are responding to it.

 

[michael hagerty]

Largely agreed, though I think KGMZ is pretty much beyond hope.

You may have missed this:

https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/june-2023-bay-area-radio-ppm-ratings.765337/post-6628497

 

[Mark Roberts]

KVVF KVVZ will go country I think. Format whole for the city and north of it!! Those ratings are awful.

San Francisco, Marin, and much of the East Bay are isolated from the types of cultural influences and references that make country music radio successful. It's probably unfair to paint country-music fans and artists with the same paintbrush used to paint descriptions of right-wing culture war garbage, but I would posit that a lot of people in SF, Marin, Berkeley, Oakland, etc. tend to do exactly that. Particularly in Berkeley, the only kind of "country" music that would count would be what anyone else would call "folk". Hootenanny has been off the air for nearly 59 years, but I'm not sure everyone along or near Hopkins Avenue is aware of that. So they probably wouldn't even know who Luke Combs is.

 

[Mark Roberts]

You may have missed this:

https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/june-2023-bay-area-radio-ppm-ratings.765337/post-6628497

Very fair point - thanks for noting it. I'll admit to not being a listener to sports radio. I'll also admit to not paying a lot of attention to monthly ups-and-downs and the horse-race coverage of them. I'd love to see analyses and discussions of ratings being centered on measures that are more smoothed out, such as moving averages, but I haven't seen much of that.

 

[Weiserguy]

There was a lot of brand equity in Live 105 though version 2, CBS and afterwards, certainly had its ups and downs. After "Dave" stumbled into the picture, there was at least some effort to keep the brand alive on an HD-2 channel and, I believe, streaming, until Audacy's financial stresses put that at an end. My own guess, and I'll admit that it's a guess, is that Audacy thought the brand had enough of a rest for people to remember the good things about it while forgetting the misfires and bad outcomes. As a consequence, the brand could be revived with all the good memories and a lot less of the baggage. Thus we now have version 3 of Live 105, still something of a work in progress, but indications are that people are responding to it.

If all goes well, Live 105 could take a similar trajectory to WCBS-FM, where TPTB flash-crashed the oldies format in favor of Jack, and following two years of blowback, sent Jack packing and brought back a Classic Hits update of the legacy format. They've been a solid top 5 station for most of the time since in 6+ and the sales demos. Alt obviously doesn't have the broad appeal of classic hits, but it too could be a long-term performer if they play their cards right.

 

[Weiserguy]

...Particularly in Berkeley, the only kind of "country" music that would count would be what anyone else would call "folk"...

We use the term Americana nowadays. "Folk" labels you as one of those long-hair hippie commie radicals.

 

[Radiopaw]

Again, both Santa Rosa and San Jose are part of the San Francisco markets. I have doubts that the San Jose Nielsen book will continue much longer.

Very few advertisers use the San Jose book. They look at the SF book and decide if they want to use stations that cover only part of the market.

Of course, advertisers that buy the San Francisco book can "create" a San Jose book or a "South Bay" book if they want to as the data is all there.

Just as in LA, we can create an Orange County book or a San Gabriel or San Fernando Valley book or a South Central book and so on.

Does this mean San Jose stations are just inherently less profitable? Such as Alpha Media’s properties.

 

[Radiopaw]

Very fair point - thanks for noting it. I'll admit to not being a listener to sports radio. I'll also admit to not paying a lot of attention to monthly ups-and-downs and the horse-race coverage of them. I'd love to see analyses and discussions of ratings being centered on measures that are more smoothed out, such as moving averages, but I haven't seen much of that.

Admittingly, I don’t think I’ve ever seen an FM sports in a major market flip off it. Is there notable examples and is it rare?

 

[MarkW]

Detroit Sports 105.1 lasted about two years; it was a terribly programmed station and its epic failure probably cost the local market GM for Greater Media his job.

Other FM sports stations that did not last include 95.5 in Columbus, OH, 105.7 in Columbus, OH, 104.3 in Miami, FL (still available on AM), 95.5 in Portland, OR (demoted to AM). Granted, I'd consider Columbus to be a large market, not a major market. Portland is on the fence between large vs. major. It is worth noting that Columbus still has a highly successful FM Sports station at 97.1 FM.

87.7 The Game in Chicago, a "Franken FM" Sports station with a sizable budget programmed as a sister station to 720 WGN, lasted about a year to 18 months, if I remember correctly.

Wasn't 105.7 in Tijuana - with programming at the time geared to San Diego - Sports as well, once upon a time? I want to say they were Sports before flipping to Oldies.

Most recently 103.3 in Dallas was sold & flipped to Christian religious programming; that market still has two full time Sports stations on FM, though.

 

[michael hagerty]

Most recently 103.3 in Dallas was sold & flipped to Christian religious programming; that market still has two full time Sports stations on FM, though.

They simulcast XEPRS (1090) from 2006-2008.

Weirdly, the call letters for 105.7 are XHPRS, but they're not related to that simulcast. Those calls arrived a month AFTER the simulcast ended.

 

[TheBigA]

Most recently 103.3 in Dallas was sold & flipped to Christian religious programming; that market still has two full time Sports stations on FM, though.

Extenuating circumstances there, as Disney was seeking to sell all of its radio stations and couldn't find a willing LMA partner once Cumulus went bankrupt.