It's just a matter of time...

[broadcastguy]

A vehicle without a radio, be it FM or AM, is a vehicle that I will not buy...........

Believe it or not, in South America dealerships still sell some entry level models without radio AT ALL, just the speakers "pre wired" for radio... Year 2016.

 

[Kelly A]

Video chatting with friends while driving?
Who is going to watch the road?

On my 42 mile commute each way north and south on I-95, I've seen this many times. Some idiot either holding their phone up by the steering wheel with someone video conferencing, or in one of one of those phone holders up by the steering wheel. We thought texting while driving is distracting? These folks are all over the road while trying to look good for who's on the other end. Listening to the radio, or paying attention to driving, is about fifth down the list of important things to be doing.

 

[broadcastguy]

On my 42 mile commute each way north and south on I-95, I've seen this many times. Some idiot either holding their phone up by the steering wheel with someone video conferencing, or in one of one of those phone holders up by the steering wheel. We thought texting while driving is distracting? These folks are all over the road while trying to look good for who's on the other end. Listening to the radio, or paying attention to driving, is about fifth down the list of important things to be doing.

Offtopic: I often drive the DC to NYC corridor through I-95 and my driving hobby is to count how many a*sholes are talking/ texting/ skyping with their phones while doing +70mph. You'll be surprised.

 

[KeithE4]

Offtopic: I often drive the DC to NYC corridor through I-95 and my driving hobby is to count how many a*sholes are talking/ texting/ skyping with their phones while doing +70mph. You'll be surprised.

Jimmy Buffett wrote a song about I-95 drivers.

 

[vchimpanzee]

As much as I would like to see the proposal for repurposing VHF television channels 5 and 6 to a digital expansion of the FM band (with an ultimate goal of making that entire 76-108 MHz band non-analog), it's a non-starter as long as LPTV needs somewhere to transmit after the auction.

Plus you have to get people to buy new receivers that pick up those frequencies. Look how well that has worked with HD.

 

[vchimpanzee]

The apparent solution is just as problematic as the situation itself. There is always going to be a limit as to how much WiFi access can be created. The resources, like freeway lanes, are finite. And as with congested freeways, the instant you increase access (by adding a lane on the road or additional bandwidth to the hotspot) the demand will grow almost immediately to use it. Then you're back to square one.

This is the argument being made for toll lanes on I-77 north of Charlotte NC. At least telling people they'll have to pay as much as $20 a day to go 45 MPH will get something accomplished, but the people potentially having to do that aren't too happy. Sitting in traffic for hours will still be free.

And isn't this one of the reasons they're auctioning TV channels right now? To make less room for broadcasting and more room for wireless Internet? I know one of the deadlines was supposed to be last week but I haven't researched what actually happened. And unless someone else is helping out, I have the responsibility for the Wikipedia article on the repacking.

 

[JeeperOne]

The US has already overpopulated the FM dial, thanks to things like Docket 80-90. So there are no channels on which to put the AM stations except for low power translators.

The move in the US is not to new frequencies or HD channels, it is to streaming. And many traditional stations are growing their streaming efforts and trying to make the content platform neutral.

BUT you're FORGETTING that the FCC HAS YET to decide what to do with the RF spectrum left behind by TV channels 3-6 though. That could play a role in what broadcasters do with their AM sticks too

Cheers & 73

 

[JeeperOne]

Video chatting with friends while driving?
Who is going to watch the road?

Some people (Namely YouTube vloggers) use tiny cameras that mount on the windshield of the car. Others use dashboard-mounted cameras. Don't forget that

Cheers & 73

 

[JeeperOne]

Whoa whoa whoa no need to heat it that way guys. We are discussing something interesting here, the future of our passion and for many of us our careers. Nothing more, nothing else.

I agree. See Frank's reply

Broadcast radio has survived through the years and through all kinds of experiments (radio on TV, stereo AM, studios in shopping malls, automation..) I mean, ALL kinds of thigs, and there it is. Try to go buy a station. It's worth hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. Doesn't sound like a dead industry for me. It will have to adapt? Yes. Did this happen before? Yes.

Same with TV. Just different obstacles

Cheers & 73

 

[KeithE4]

BUT you're FORGETTING that the FCC HAS YET to decide what to do with the RF spectrum left behind by TV channels 3-6 though. That could play a role in what broadcasters do with their AM sticks too

Cheers & 73

I thought the FCC has made it clear multiple times that Channels 2 thru 6 will remain television allocations. Or have they recently revisited the subject?

 

[vchimpanzee]

I thought the FCC has made it clear multiple times that Channels 2 thru 6 will remain television allocations. Or have they recently revisited the subject?

In the research I've done on repacking, stations get an incentive to move from UHF to VHF or, better yet, from High VHF to Low VHF. Not a good thing.

 

[landtuna]

In the research I've done on repacking, stations get an incentive to move from UHF to VHF or, better yet, from High VHF to Low VHF. Not a good thing.

From what I understand technically why would anyone suggest moving digital signals, barely adequate on UHF/high VHF, to low VHF where they become virtually unusable?

 

[KeithE4]

From what I understand technically why would anyone suggest moving digital signals, barely adequate on UHF/high VHF, to low VHF where they become virtually unusable?

Probably because the full-powered UHF stations will have priority in a reduced spectrum space. I don't think any current VHF full-powered stations will be allowed to move to UHF, though.

 

[landtuna]

How much channel separation is needed between full power UHF TV stations so that one doesn't interfere with its neighbor?

 

[KeithE4]

How much channel separation is needed between full power UHF TV stations so that one doesn't interfere with its neighbor?

I think they can be on adjacent channels as long as they are co-located. Somebody else will have to quote the exact separation rules, but the days of 6-channel UHF spacing are long gone.

 

[Kelly A]

This is completely off the subject, but since you asked; DTV UHF channels are 6Mhz each and are stacked next to each other. The allotment spacing is based on the calculated overlap between channels based on ERP, frequency and distance between allocations in each market. Remember, the channel number a DTV station calls themselves, probably isn't the actual channel they're occupying. Stations were required to adopt the virtual channel of their pre-migration. There are a few high VHF stations that flash-cut, or migrated back to their old VHF channels post migration. Just not too many of those in each market.

 

[K.M. Richards]

I don't think that was the question landtuna was asking, Kelly.

I think he meant what mileage separations currently exist for the transmitted UHF channels in relation to each other, and I think Keith is pretty close with his off-the-cuff answer.

The original "taboos" for UHF had to do with the frequencies within each channel used to transmit analog video and audio, and the relationship between those and the frequencies generated by the old tube-type television receivers (and the multiples thereof, and other mathematical equations). In reality, those separations had stopped making sense a long time ago with the development of all solid-state receivers (in fact, the television engineers were urging the FCC to at least update them as early as 1970), but they remained in effect until the analog sunset.

My recollection is that if adjacent channel stations are not co-located (within reason) they have to be a minimum of 25 miles apart, and co-channels have to be at least 50 miles away, but that's all based on service contours now, rather than the old method.

 

[gr8oldies]

A couple of random points. Since the advent of Periscope, I've seen lots of video-ing and driving, and one social media guru in particular comes to mind.

I sometimes listen to WLW's stream in the morning since I'm out of air signal range, and for a solid weak their stream was feeding an ad to my zipcode. Only problem was it was so out of demographic to be ridiculous. "Hey, girls in Knoxville!". The ad was recruiting young females for a Hooters-like place. Might have even been a strip club. (WLW's stream is terrible; constant cut-offs and sloppy re-joins, not to mention cheap filler spots).

 

[K.M. Richards]

I did some doublechecking and all the full-power UHFs on Mount Wilson are on adjacent or second-adjacent channels, with the exception of KSCI/18, which is surrounded by channels reallocated to land-mobile in the 1970s, and three-channel gaps between channels 24 and 28* and between 43 and 47.

24 - KBEH (63)
28 - KCET
29 - KFTR (46)
31 - KTLA (5)
32 - KDOC (56)
33 - KTBN (40)
34 - KMEX
35 - KRCA (62)
36 - KNBC (4)
38 - KPXN (30)
39 - KVEA (52)
41 - KLCS (58)
42 - KWHY (22)
43 - KCBS (2)
47 - KAZA (54)
48 - KOCE (50)
49 - KJLA (57)
51 - KXLA (44)

I think that pretty much proves the co-location/adjacent channels technical feasibility. It also proves how difficult repacking is going to be, even with some stations going dark and others sharing transmitters.

LPTVs are jammed into every corner of the spectrum they can be. I doubt very many will survive; with four of the existing full-powers operating on their former analog channels (KABC/7, KCAL/9, KTTV/11, and KCOP/13) there are only three high-VHF channels "open" for some UHF full-powers to presumably move to, and all three have at least two LPTVs on them, geographically spread apart from each other.

* - I should point out that KVCR/26 (24) is in that gap, but not on Wilson, and it is the station ranked highest in value for the auction in this market.

 

[mimo]

We have 2 channels here in Ottawa that are located next to each other. They actually transmit on their former UHF channels of 42 and 43. I get both with no interference at all from each other. I think they are both using the same tower as well.