Which is hard to do. Most of the advertisers for talk stations prefer long-form infomercials to the short 30 or 60 spots.
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Is WABC profitable?
- Thread starter Martin Gilbert
- Start date
Which is hard to do. Most of the advertisers for talk stations prefer long-form infomercials to the short 30 or 60 spots.
That's definitely fair!
However - looking at the schedule for KDKA, for example, right now they've got Christ Moore listed from 5-8 and then a CBS program, "America Changed Forever" from 8-9. Not sure what "The Takeout with Major Garret" is from 9-10, but then they just have a CBS news roundup from 10-11. Something tells me none of those programs are raking in a lot of $$$ for KDKA...
It seems that the mornings are usually where most of that brokered time is on the weekends.
No, but earlier in the day is filled with sponsored shows: The gardening show is paid for. Estate planning is an infomercial. There's a home improvement show on Saturday that's an infomercial. Networth Financial Hour is an infomercial.
Well right - I wasn't suggesting completely clearing the day. They do have a whole bunch of programming earlier on that definitely brings in some good $$$.
The point that I was trying to make is that while stations certainly have brokered time on weekends, the whole weekend is not filled up on many stations. So... brokered time isn't an excuse not to try something new like WABC did with music. KDKA has five or six hours they could do something like that with right now in the evenings Saturday.
My bet is their actual demo is probably similar in age to folks who would listen to 60s/70s oldies, too...
But they're a news station. Adding music would require them to break their normal format, plus pay music royalties.
It's one thing for a single station owner who has a passion for oldies to do this. It's another thing for a heritage news station to play music on Saturday night.
They don't pay royalties now? How do their hosts play "September" by Earth Wind and Fire or any other multitude of songs heading back into programming, then?
Music would break their news format... then again, doesn't an hour of gardening talk break their news format? Or the Kuhns Cooking Hour? Or the Hollywood 360 show (old time radio) they play late at night? While still talk, there's nothing "news" about those brokered hours - they're definitely a break in format, too.
That said - I agree that music would be a bit more of a departure from their regular news format than the brokered time shows, but stations breaking format on weekends isn't all that unusual, anyway.
KDKA is a heritage news station... but they have a long history of music, too. Clark Race was there in the 60s and his slot regularly beat out KQV (ABC's Pittsburgh Top-40 powerhouse) for listeners. Lots of top-40 on KDKA in the 60s and then MOR in the 70s. WABC cut music in '72. KDKA didn't cut music until the mid-90s. So... it actually had a longer run with music than WABC by over a decade.
As an FYI all 3 of these are CBS News audio/radio shows. ‘Takeout’ is a news interview show, you can also listen to it as a podcast.
Those are paid shows. If someone wants to pay the station to host an oldies show, they might consider it.
The ONLY reason WABC has music on Saturday is because the owner wants to play music.
Stations that use "incidental music" in ads, bumpers and the like pay a different and significantly lower rate than music station.
That's definitely fair! As the saying goes, money talks...
From what I understand, there's a whole team of (paid) people behind Brucie. I can't imagine the owner taking a big hit (and potentially having other profits wiped out) just to put music on in the weekends. The impression I get is that the program is paying for itself at the very least (and there are definitely less expensive ways to put oldies on one day a week than hire Brucie and a team of folks behind him).
Either way, while it would be very neat - I don't think we'll see many other stations following suit because, as you say, the owners don't want to put music on.
Thanks for the clarification on that, David.
Thanks - not sure how the heck I didn't catch that. I meant '82. Finals season at school is catching up to me
Major Garret is basically a podcast on air. Sometimes it's pretty interesting and he has on some decent guests.
Huh! I'll have to give it a listen. I'm usually DXing WABC Saturday evenings, so it's been a while since I've even tuned KDKA in then.
Advertising clients also appear as “guests” on WABC. For example, the diet doctor and the owner of Balance Of Nature were “interviewed” by Sid Rosenberg. In the past, the owner of a go-cart company has been “interviewed” by Sid. And, the owner of the water boiler company has a regular on-air presence. The president of the Goya food company has appeared on the show hosted by WABC’s owner, who gushes about Goya beans, among the few WABC advertisers.
There's a different royalty structure for stations that use music only on an incidental basis, like bumpers for talk shows.
Incidental use also includes covered songs used in commercials. We have to remember that on AM and FM it is only the authors, composers and publishers that are covered, not the artists.
You are oversimplifying the situation. Yes, the owner is a billionaire. But like all wealthy people, nearly all their money lies in the value of their enterprises and investments. They don't have a money vault like Disney's Uncle Scrooge that they can shovel unlimited cash out of.
We hear a lot of ads on WABC. They are likely not sold at the highest market rates, but it is probable that the station is nicely and moderately profitable.
Remember that people who are in the sort of position that "Cats" is in have lots of friends that they can ask to support their station.
But you are right that he does not have to report to shareholders, "keep the share price up" and pay off loans. He can accept lower margins, but the he certainly remembers that he paid millions for the station and he will want a decent ROI on that. Even if it is a "toy" it is not a beach home in the Hamptons; it's a business and he will be disappointed if any endeavor he engages in is not profitable.