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Is HD Radio in full coverage now?

rbrucecarter5 said:
Try half a dozen - not one or two. Different ownership groups. HD-2 apathy by owners is a problem - at least here in Houston, the 6th largest market.
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They're only going to care if they're bringing in revenue. Have the station groups in Houston embraced the trend of pairing HD2s with translators? I can't imagine a 250 watt translator covering much of the sprawling metro area, but it is probably going to be the only way your stations get any attention.

HD is getting to finally be a huge deal here in Alabama because of the potential for feeding translators. I dunno if we're just ahead of the curve (for once) or what, but it's really made the station groups focus on keeping the HD2/3 channels going once they are paired up with a translator. To give an idea of how much this is being used, consider this: Birmingham, market #57, has 9 translators being fed by HD2/3 programming. Three or four are doing well in the ratings. HD-fed translators outnumber AM-fed ones by 3:1 in the metro area. In Montgomery, market 150, they have four HD fed and five AM fed translators. Tuscaloosa has two HD-fed with two more in the wings, Huntsville has one, Mobile has one or two now… Even Selma has one. Columbus, GA has 4 HD-fed translators. Auburn has one or two, even.

I think the only real ranked market that has not embraced HDs feeding translators is Dothan, and it's basically the land that time forgot, anyway. I don't think they even have any HD commercial broadcasts at all. Muscle Shoals/Florence is not a rated market, I don't think, and they don't have any HD either. But in the other areas, it's really taken off. And as a consequence, the stations are programming the HD2s better and making sure they stay lit all the time.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
HD-2 apathy by owners is a problem - at least here in Houston, the 6th largest market.
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If it represented a problem that affected the bottom line, then it would be a problem. It isn't indicative of all HD use, everywhere or HD isn't a "failure" just because your local issues are problems for you.
 
Kelly A said:
If it represented a problem that affected the bottom line, then it would be a problem. It isn't indicative of all HD use, everywhere or HD isn't a "failure" just because your local issues are problems for you.
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There only reason why so many stations wouldn't care about keeping HD-2's on the air is precisely that it doesn't affect their bottom line. Whether Houston is typical of other markets or not, I don't know. I don't look on boards for places I don't live for "HD is down posts". But some of the companies that don't care whether HD-2 is down or nor are major players in other markets, so my guess would be they don't care there, either.

If HD-2's aren't making money, and I owned a station, I'd take them down to avoid the aggravation of having to deal with them. If somebody is leasing it to drive a translator and it goes down, then they are going to scream bloody murder that they are off the air.
 
Kelly A said:
So Bruce, you don't think CBS stations are making money from Radio Disney being carried on their HD channel(s)? http://www.radiodiscussions.com/showthread.php?694287-Radio-Disney-is-back
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Ha Ha good one! I wonder how much CBS is charging Disney / ABC for those HD-2's? It is bound to be a lot of money. It probably makes the network of AM stations look like a bargain by comparison. I can just see all the little kids going out to buy HD radios now so they can hear radio Disney on FM instead of AM. Of course we all know that HD radio has a much more robust signal than AM. I only need a ten element double driven yagi antenna to get all the LOCAL HD stations in HD. Kids can do that, right?!

Disney would do much better financially to go with a completely online service, just like Nickelodeon with their "radio" network. I will go out on a limb and guess that far more kids know how to access the internet than know how to use HD radio. Especially since reliable HD reception seems to be the exclusive domain of the 0.0001% of listeners who are DXer's, or who are industry spokespersons for HD radio.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
Ha Ha good one! I wonder how much CBS is charging Disney / ABC for those HD-2's? It is bound to be a lot of money. It probably makes the network of AM stations look like a bargain by comparison.
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There you go again, Bruce, stating things or assuming things that you have no knowledge of.

The lease figure for HD-2 channels is likely commensurate with what used to be paid for SCA channels. In a larger market, it might be in excess of $120 thousand a year, with smaller markets commensurately less.

In other words, probably less per market than the average AM Disney station's utility bill.

If anyone gets marketing to the youth and family segments, it is Disney. If they are going for HD distribution, they are likely tying to cover all the most likely platforms that per-adolescents would have access to. Remember, in the car the kids are not driving and mom or dad is the one selecting the most appropriate media offering. Disney is always safe; making it an easy choice is what Disney wants to achieve.
 
DavidEduardo said:


There you go again, Bruce, stating things or assuming things that you have no knowledge of.

The lease figure for HD-2 channels is likely commensurate with what used to be paid for SCA channels. In a larger market, it might be in excess of $120 thousand a year, with smaller markets commensurately less.

In other words, probably less per market than the average AM Disney station's utility bill.

If anyone gets marketing to the youth and family segments, it is Disney. If they are going for HD distribution, they are likely tying to cover all the most likely platforms that per-adolescents would have access to. Remember, in the car the kids are not driving and mom or dad is the one selecting the most appropriate media offering. Disney is always safe; making it an easy choice is what Disney wants to achieve.
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No parent is going to put up with the dropouts and unreliability of HD-2. It is extremely annoying to a driver to have alternate complete silence and then abrupt change to music. It is a safety issue.

Besides, most parents don't know how to tune HD radio, just as they didn't know how to program VCR's a generation ago. Radio Disney is on satellite. That is a more reliable platform for the car.

So - Radio Disney is going to pay $120 thousand a year in 50 markets, 6 million a year, for a platform a miniscule number of listeners that use HD radio? Somehow I doubt that business model makes sense. Almost nobody is making money on HD-2's, and I doubt Disney is going to spend that much money hoping to make Sofia Carson, Sabrina Carpenter, or Dove Cameron into the next Miley Cyrus. That was a fluke, not likely to be repeated.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
No parent is going to put up with the dropouts and unreliability of HD-2. It is extremely annoying to a driver to have alternate complete silence and then abrupt change to music. It is a safety issue.
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What market are we talking about? Doesn't happen in mine.

rbrucecarter5 said:
Besides, most parents don't know how to tune HD radio, just as they didn't know how to program VCR's a generation ago. Radio Disney is on satellite. That is a more reliable platform for the car.
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Let's see.....twisting my DIS knob multiple times to the desired channel or pushing my DIS knob once to the desired HD signal. Yup....plenty of parents sure can't handle that.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
No parent is going to put up with the dropouts and unreliability of HD-2. It is extremely annoying to a driver to have alternate complete silence and then abrupt change to music. It is a safety issue.
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In the primary coverage are of the analog station, the digital channel is quite usable with few dropouts in major markets.

Besides, most parents don't know how to tune HD radio
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On my most recent car, the HD2 channels just come up like other stations. One one car, there is a Disney App for the screen. How hard is that?

So - Radio Disney is going to pay $120 thousand a year in 50 markets, 6 million a year, for a platform a miniscule number of listeners that use HD radio? Somehow I doubt that business model makes sense. Almost nobody is making money on HD-2's, and I doubt Disney is going to spend that much money hoping to make Sofia Carson, Sabrina Carpenter, or Dove Cameron into the next Miley Cyrus. That was a fluke, not likely to be repeated.
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One: that figure is the higher end. In smaller markets, the amount is going to be commensurately smaller. This type of service is sold somewhat like stick-value radio station sales and based on population covered. So market 50 might be less than $1 k a month.

TWO: Radio Disney is not out to make hit artists. They are out to enhance the Disney brand. Many people categorized the whole thing as a promotional expense. And Disney is one of the world's best marketers, something nobody has accused you of being.


THREE: Miley is likely something Disney would like to distance from. "Twerking" is not part of the Disney vocabulary.
 
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DavidEduardo said:
This type of service is sold somewhat like stick-value radio station sales and based on population covered.
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What would the ratio be between leasing a new FM station (no sales history) vs a 4% power HD sub-channel from that same station?
I would guess that the ratio (not the amounts) should be similar for a commercial full class B in NYC and a non-com class D or LPFM in Barrow, AK.
In my scenario, absolutely no analogue translators are available.
 
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ai4i said:
What would the ratio be between leasing a new FM station (no sales history) vs a 4% power HD sub-channel from that same station?.
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Not a valid comparison, as the HD coverage without the enhanced power is roughly the same as the 65 dbu of the analog signal. The value difference is based on receivers.
 
DavidEduardo said:

Not a valid comparison,
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What I meant was, for every dollar to rent the main carrier, what percent of that would a station owner charge to rent a sub-channel. If they could get $100K/month for the main analogue channel, what would a fair amount be for a 32kb or 48kb sub-channel: $10/month, $50/month, etc?
 
As David already mentioned, that's dependent on several factors, including market size. There is no standard formula, with everything being negotiable.
 
Kelly A said:
In the case of Bruce, Houston, and the one HD2 station he listens to. Apparently the center of the universe exists only in Houston.
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At least half a dozen, Kelly. Two oldies. One Christian rock. Two (roughly) 80's. One black classic. One smooth jazz. One indie rock. One eclectic. Soon to be one classical. A whole list of obsolete formats. I doubt I will bother with Radio Disney, but maybe if they find some good new artists that aren't available elsewhere.

Houston is a major market, 6th I think. Not the center of the universe, but I sure hope HD-2 in other markets offers listeners similar diversity.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
At least half a dozen, Kelly. Two oldies. One Christian rock. Two (roughly) 80's. One black classic. One smooth jazz. One indie rock. One eclectic. Soon to be one classical. A whole list of obsolete formats. I doubt I will bother with Radio Disney, but maybe if they find some good new artists that aren't available elsewhere.

Houston is a major market, 6th I think. Not the center of the universe, but I sure hope HD-2 in other markets offers listeners similar diversity.
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It sure doesn't offer much here in the Mobile and Pensacola markets. The only public station does classical and a radio reading service, which is nice. The rest of the HD sub lineup is one classic country ("Foggy Mountain"), two smooth jazz (simulcasting each other), news/talk (simulcast of an AM), sports talk ("The Jag" fed to a translator), urban ("The Beat" fed to a translator) and one 80's channel in mono. That last one seems to be the "format of the month" for iHeart. Seems like it changes regularly. Previously it was Duran Duran Radio, then before that Josh Groban radio, and before that it was commercial-free rock, which was a curious choice since the main station is the market's only real rock station.

I'd kill for oldies, or indie or even eclectic.
 
tomservo said:
It sure doesn't offer much here in the Mobile and Pensacola markets. The only public station does classical and a radio reading service, which is nice. The rest of the HD sub lineup is one classic country ("Foggy Mountain"), two smooth jazz (simulcasting each other), news/talk (simulcast of an AM), sports talk ("The Jag" fed to a translator), urban ("The Beat" fed to a translator) and one 80's channel in mono. That last one seems to be the "format of the month" for iHeart. Seems like it changes regularly. Previously it was Duran Duran Radio, then before that Josh Groban radio, and before that it was commercial-free rock, which was a curious choice since the main station is the market's only real rock station.

I'd kill for oldies, or indie or even eclectic.
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Yeah - I went from wishing HD would go away to a user of the technology. Too bad the formats I mentioned would never exist if HD had caught on with consumers to any extent. They would be monetized to be more of the drivel on the main channels. At least for time - whether HD finally catches on, or whether it withers away "the rest of us" have something to listen to on the radio. My money would be on the latter scenario, because you have to be a DX'er to make HD work properly. Even on full class C sticks 20 miles away. I got it really good, only a few dropouts a day. My daughter's boyfriend has a stock HD radio in his truck - top of the line audio option from the auto maker. HD drops out a lot more in it. They use satellite. I don't blame them. She is really looking forward to NGEN Christian rock being over the air.
 
I rather like Houston, actually.

Just curious, being a resident from Houston, do you find HD2 breakup from the local stations to be a big problem?
 
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