IBOC Apathy

[trusty]

Atlanta, Orlando, Detroit and all points in between…..

I’ve been doing a lot of traveling recently, and I make it a point to drop into the local Best Buy or Circuit City stores to listen to their AM digital car radio displays.

Why? I haven’t found one yet – in any store. When I ask the salespeople about digital radio, they ALWAYS show me an HD FM. When I ask about digital AM, I get a look of puzzlement to a weak excuse (“Uh.. we don’t have that hooked up in the store yet.”)

When I ask how they intend to sell any HD AM radios that way, I get a pitch about the virtues of FM HD. They are not, nor ever will be, geared to sell AM (just not the average age group of their customers).

This basically means that the top retailers of HD radios are continuing to greet AM HD (and its beloved IBOC) with total apathy.

So the only ones who CARE about IBOC are the ones, like us, who are ticked off about it.

…and the stations, that keep wondering … why … ??? ??? ???


God work, Best Buy & Circuit City. Maybe your "don't care" attitude will cause AM stations to finally shut down their IBOC. We can only hope for more apathy.

 

[radioman148]

>>God work, Best Buy & Circuit City. Maybe your "don't care" attitude will cause AM stations to finally shut down their IBOC. We can only hope for more apathy. >>

The sooner the better.

 

[FreddyE1977]

and now that virtually all of the AM stations who have pockets deep enough to go digital are paired with multicasting FM's, and are streaming their station on one of those sidebands, gumming up AM with IBOC makes even less sense

 

[rbrucecarter5]

and now that virtually all of the AM stations who have pockets deep enough to go digital are paired with multicasting FM's, and are streaming their station on one of those sidebands, gumming up AM with IBOC makes even less sense

Just gumming up the FM band with useless translators --- there is a reason why these brokered, niche formats are on AM in the first place. They aren't popular enough for the big time - FM. In the recent past, two of these frequency jammers came on the air in Dallas - one under pretext of jamming from Mexico exploiting a loophole - conservative talk KSKY - did Dallas really need yet another outlet for conservative talk? It jammed popular rim shot KNIN in NW parts of the area. And then some little black gospel station jammed full service rim shot KMAD, a popular classic rocker. I can absolutely guarantee that many more people were served by classic rock than black gospel. Yet the FCC allowed that travesty to continue. Now this garbage AM pollution is going to be all over the FM band nationwide. Get ready for such gems as brokered Asian, informercial AM, traveler information AM, community info AM to come on your FM radio. All courtesy of the FCC, which gave into the whining "its not fair" from daytime only AM stations. It has been fair for almost 90 years, that there are some stations that have to be daytime only. Why is it suddenly not fair?

 

[BRNout]

What's new? We've already got religious broadcasters monopolizing the commercial and non-comm FM bands with translators everywhere. One 50 kw station from Elkhart/South Bend, IN (WFRN) literally has translators located in the shadow of their main transmitter location! Three frequencies where one would do just fine. Ummm, you can get them 60+ miles away from their tx location and they blanket Elkhart and South Bend so why must they have a translator on the commercial band in EACH city too?!? Plus translators in out of market locations that are inappropriate. About a dozen of them. Totally unnecessary.

And EMF broadcasting? An extreme and absolutely appalling channel hog. Nationwide. Buy a perfectly functioning local commercial station, take it over and turn it into a brainless zombie run from a closet in California.

These are equally serious issues to those you've cited. Basically the same concept though: crowding the band with lots of crap that few will listen to - at the expense of legitimate FM broadcasters. All this should be limited by the FCC in the interest of 'public service.' This actually IS supposed to be their job. If anything, they're doing it very poorly.

Yeah, you got me started rbruce!

 

[rbrucecarter5]

hese are equally serious issues to those you've cited. Basically the same concept though: crowding the band with lots of crap that few will listen to - at the expense of legitimate FM broadcasters. All this should be limited by the FCC in the interest of 'public service.' This actually IS supposed to be their job. If anything, they're doing it very poorly.

Yeah, you got me started rbruce!

I am a Christian believer. But 99% of Christian radio is a waste of electricity. We have the same problem in Houston. Every conceivable frequency that could be used for something creative in Christian radio has been grabbed up by wimpy CCM KSBJ and boring Christian KHCB. It locks out everybody under the age of 50 from having relevant Christian radio that meets their needs.

I'm not letting other networks off the hook like NPR - they are spectrum hogs, too. I've gotten them on a dozen frequencies all playing the same program some places that I travel.

Public interest is best served by diversity - and that means not letting these spectrum hogs grab up all the frequencies they can. In the case of Christian radio, particular conservative, boring Christian radio, I think they grab frequencies so more youth oriented Christian stations can't come on the air. Because the moment they do - their captive audience defects. And NPR is so scared that they will miss a potential donor, they will put another translator on the air to serve 5 more people. A frequency that could be used for LPFM, minority owned programming, a niche format popular in the area, or something really different and creative.

Now we have this ugly AM translator's on FM. Combined with an ill-advised digital system that already jams first adjacents, and an even more ill-advised 10dB power increase for these legal jammers - and the FM band will soon resemble the AM band at night - a cacophony of stations and interference. Then we will see how many people still bother to listen.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

hese are equally serious issues to those you've cited. Basically the same concept though: crowding the band with lots of crap that few will listen to - at the expense of legitimate FM broadcasters. All this should be limited by the FCC in the interest of 'public service.' This actually IS supposed to be their job. If anything, they're doing it very poorly.

Yeah, you got me started rbruce!

In the case of Christian radio, particular conservative, boring Christian radio, I think they grab frequencies so more youth oriented Christian stations can't come on the air. Because the moment they do - their captive audience defects.

That statement may be factual in many cases, but consider the case of EMF Broadcasting...Their first frequency in a market is usually K-Love (far from your father's Christian Radio). Their second entry is usually the younger skewing Air1 format. In some markets (Bloomington,IN for example) there's no K-Love at all...just Air1. Probably because it's a college town.

 

[clone]

Plus translators in out of market locations that are inappropriate. About a dozen of them. Totally unnecessary.

Indeed!

It's turning into a thread-jacking, but in Porter County alone, (way out of market for an Elkhart-licensed station), they have at least three that I am aware of (106.7 Valparaiso, 102.3 Portage, 97.5 Chesterton). Not to mention that the "translated" station 104.7 Elkhart (WFRN) comes in OK with a good setup. I personally can receive all four of these spectrum-wasters on my home system. (Isn't gluttony a sin?)

What's even funnier is that I couldn't listen to 102.3 on my F1HD even if for some reason I wanted to, because HD from Crawford's WYCA 102.3 in Crete takes over. The whole thing would be laughable, other than the fact that it's destroying FM, AM style.

Not to sound like John Lennon, but imagine, if you will, if all of these stations were commercial LPFMs. Serving their communities, local/niche programming, local advertising, etc. CC or CBS should make the spectrum-gluttons an offer they can't refuse and air some of their HD2 programming on them and see what happens. Maybe even have some local advertisers on them?

For example, 106.7 could service the university-age crowd with WBBM-HD2 (or the ex-WKQX-HD2). Maybe 97.5 could air WUSN-HD2 (or even HD3). 95.1 in Michigan City might work with WGCI-HD2. These are just three examples off the top of my head, and I'm not a radio/ad exec. I know a few things: HD2 additional content = good. HD delivery mechanism = bad. Local-casting of niche programming to tightly-defined audiences = good job for a translator.

 

[trusty]

Good Lord! Are you saying that more regulation is the answer? Who will judge ... and ANY regulation of formats will have to affect ALL stations. Scary.

I understand the format "imbalance" in today's radio. A major market (Atlanta) went without an oldies station for a few years until the market saw the need and filled it. It took a while, but at least it was brought back by the market and not by regulation. (Maybe the market will bring back an easy-listening and/or classical, too.) As previously stated, the "market", hopefully, seems to be killing off AM IBOC (via Best Buy & Circuit City). Follow the money - what goes around comes around.

FM HD is just earthbound stations trying to compete with satellite, and (so far) it's free, so what's da probem wid dat?

 

[BobOnTheJob]

FM HD is just earthbound stations trying to compete with satellite, and (so far) it's free, so what's da probem wid dat?

It's like me planting huge wide canopy shade trees (FM IBOC) 1' inside my property line & them killing off your garden because the sun (stations on adjacent frequencies) no longer reach your garden (receiver). So what's da problem wid dat? You tell me...

 

[clone]

Good Lord! Are you saying that more regulation is the answer? Who will judge ... and ANY regulation of formats will have to affect ALL stations. Scary.

More regulation? God, no. Just enforcement of the current regulation. These translators are being used to extend the coverage well beyond the licensed area of the "mothership".

This is not what translators were meant for. Translators (initially, and I believe in spirit) were intended to serve areas where either
a) there was little/no current existing service, meaning waaaay out in the boonies, or
b) to fill gaps in the licensed coverage area caused by challenging terrain or other environmental factors.

I was reading another post on here somewhere where one of these translators in SW Michigan on 101.1 was picking up skip from Dayton, OH and rebroadcasting it. This tells me that the translator must be a bit outside the protected contour, and therefore probably doesn't meet the criteria for "B" above. Nowhere within a 500 mile radius of Chicago meets the criteria for "A" above.

So, trust me, I want more regulation as much as I want higher taxes or a whack on the head. I just want everyone to play by the rules, even the "innocent, little Christian station".

 

[BRNout]

I absolutely agree with you clone! It's not that I have an issue with WFRN itself or its content - because I don't. But, it has a perfectly sufficient signal to serve it's market quite well and has absolutely no need for a cadre of translators. The ones inside the market are redundant with the main signal (after all no other stations in that market need translators either - not even those with a lot less juice than WFRN) and the ones outside of the market shouldn't even be permitted.

Let's just say that if you are going to allow that, let's pop translators for WLS-FM on the commercial band in Elkhart and South Bend and Kalamazoo. Hey, why not? Frankly, a lot more people would probably listen to that programming than what WFRN has on (based on ratings). Of course, neither station needs to do that and neither should be allowed to do that, for the sake of local broadcasters in those areas.

And EMF is no different - in fact they're worse. No local content - they roll in with a fat wallet, buy up as many local signals (and translators) as they can get, and program all with one of 2 or 3 (I can't recall) satellite-fed, totally automated, formats. They are the ultimate frequency hog, grabbing up hundreds of stations that are now zombies. Drive through central NY or northern PA and often all you get on FM are frequencies with feeds from EMF. Five years ago, that wasn't the case. Those areas have a "sick" radio dial now. Great for Sirius/XM, bad for those who don't care to buy it.

That station based out of Twin Falls, ID is another abomination - with "translators" all over the US. Though I am generally a small government guy (believe me, I am), these are examples of gross abuses and should be addressed.

A more diverse radio dial is better for the public and that, by definition, is better for the broadcasters in any given market. It interests more listeners and that, in turn, generates revenue. It's a win-win.

 

[vibe]

I guess I'm apathetic since I haven't chimed in yet. I don't like most translators for the the reasons in the previous posts. Everyone talks of pirates but its these translators that have grabbed chunks (sometimes large) of the primary station's peripheral range (if not territory). Ex: WHOM losing territory in Central Mass to the WTAG translator in Paxton, MA. Not that I enjoy the format of either station... There's nothing more fustrating than trying to listen to a ball game on a AM frequency that was clear for the last 40-50 yrs. It really hisses me off!
People have been getting nickel and dimed in their everyday life for years hence the apathy with IBOC. But that's 'progress" ain't it.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

That station based out of Twin Falls, ID is another abomination - with "translators" all over the US. Though I am generally a small government guy (believe me, I am), these are examples of gross abuses and should be addressed.

The answer is simple - require all translators to re-broadcast an over the air signal only - of their primary signal, not another translator. Grant exceptions only for re-broadcasting on first adjacents, based on a reasonable expection of an OTA signal if the translator wasn't there. That would stop Calvary Chapel, EMF, and the other translator grabbers without government having any control of format. Unfortunately, it wouldn't stop our local spectrum hog here in Houston, but it would stop the satellite translator networks in their tracks.

 

[BRNout]

I guess I'm apathetic since I haven't chimed in yet. I don't like most translators for the the reasons in the previous posts. Everyone talks of pirates but its these translators that have grabbed chunks (sometimes large) of the primary station's peripheral range (if not territory). Ex: WHOM losing territory in Central Mass to the WTAG translator in Paxton, MA. Not that I enjoy the format of either station... There's nothing more fustrating than trying to listen to a ball game on a AM frequency that was clear for the last 40-50 yrs. It really hisses me off!
People have been getting nickel and dimed in their everyday life for years hence the apathy with IBOC. But that's 'progress" ain't it.

That new translator on 94.9 clobbers a previously clear WHOM as far east as Framingham! Literally just checked it out yesterday on the Pike.

I thought that translators were supposed to be local. This one covers way too much territory.

 

[nd2023]

Our FM band in central NJ is full enough that there's no room for translators. But there are pirate stations on every second adjacent.

Tropo ducting doesn't respect protected contours, you could have tropo interference within the 60 dBu contour. And e-skip will interfere within the city grade contour.

 

[vibe]

BRN out: I did not research the particulars but the translator on 94.9 that took a chunk of WHOM's peripheral coverage area supposedly broadcasts from a tower near the Paxton-Worcester Ma line. It supposedly is a very famous site; a local rock station, WAAF, moved from that tower area a few years ago and has sharply reduced coverage. I was in the Rochester NH area last Fri-got a very strong WSRS 96.1 from that tower but zero signal on AAF. That is another matter. But the translator gets out 20-30 mi (probably slightly more with a good receiver) in an area with a high population and many who enjoyed WHOM's MOR format. We are about 15-20 mi from the paxton tower and the station is as strong as the Providence RI locals from 25 mi. But with 1Kw or so, there are small fades in the valleys
FWIW I didn't listen to WHOM much except to marvel at their signal coverage. In some places S of Worcester, you could get WHOM on seek on a daily basis from at least 125 mi.
No mas..

 

[BRNout]

Oh my God vibe, don't get me started on how STUPID Entercom was to move WAAF off of that tower! They lost coverage in lots of places and gained it in very few. In southern NH (Nashua/Manchester), they were once one of the strongest signals. No more. Yeah, they come in. But not as well as stations from the 128 towers in Needham and comparable with those from the Pru (on a good day).

They amazingly lost coverage in the N and NE parts of the market, gained almost none in the S and SE parts of the market, completely lost Springfield, Hartford and central New England, and only marginally improved downtown - a point made moot by the repeater on 97.7. Basically, there was no upside here. No improvement in the Boston DMA; in fact the contrary is true. Yet they lost thousands of out-of-market listeners who apparently didn't matter. Lose-lose.

Entercom took WAAF from a world-class transmitter location to a truly lousy one and yet they still steadfastly deny that it's the case. Can you say DUMB?

And yes, that's no site for a translator that's NOT supposed to outrange the AM that it repeats. It's too good.

 

[jd]

That new translator on 94.9 clobbers a previously clear WHOM as far east as Framingham! Literally just checked it out yesterday on the Pike.

I thought that translators were supposed to be local. This one covers way too much territory.

I saw this thread after wading through all the tropo/e-skip reports and it's pretty interesting, although not surprising. Down here in Texas we have a number of AM stations that have taken advantage of the "AM on FM translator" temporary (yeah, sure) authority. In one case the FCC granted a Dallas area station three additional frequencies, termed "emergency" FM boosters, because of interference from a couple of stations in Mexico. One of the boosters is operating with a lot more than the 250-watt maximum for translators; it runs 800 watts ERP.

But back to the subject of this side-tracked thread : Here's the actual location of the 94.9 translator http://www.fccinfo.com/MapIt5.php?l...)<br+/>Tatnuck,+MA&city=Tatnuck&Button=Map+It

A search of the applications for the STA covering the WTAG re-broadcast on the translator turned up no maps of their nighttime AM coverage. They did, however, include this exhibit of daytime contours:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/...h.cgi?exhibit_id=611114&formid=911&q_num=5370 And it does show the coverage (60dBu "service area") for the translator, although not too clearly. The whole purpose, as stated in the original application, was to provide service to several communities in WTAG's eastern nulls at night, but it looks like somebody in D.C. might have just filled in the blanks and said O.K., close enough.