How much of the Country "twang" is fake?

[landtuna]

A few thoughts:

1. Chet Atkins modifying Country music? Chet was one of the best guitar players I ever heard but I don't think he ever did vocals - at least I never heard any. How would he influence the "twang"?

2. Keith Urban speaks with an Aussie accent - no American country twang at all. Just heard him in an interview again yesterday.

 

[TheBigA]

1. Chet Atkins modifying Country music? Chet was one of the best guitar players I ever heard but I don't think he ever did vocals - at least I never heard any. How would he influence the "twang"

In addition to being a great guitar player, he was RCA's top record producer. That was how he influended "twang." From the Wikipedia entry on the Nashville Sound:

The Nashville sound was pioneered by staff at Decca Records, RCA Records and Columbia Records in Nashville, Tennessee, including manager Steve Sholes, record producers Chet Atkins, Owen Bradley, and Bob Ferguson, and recording engineer Bill Porter. They invented the form by replacing elements of the popular honky tonk style (fiddles, steel guitar, nasal lead vocals) with "smooth" elements from 1950s pop music (string sections, background vocals, crooning lead vocals), and using "slick" production, and pop music structures.

 

[landtuna]

In addition to being a great guitar player, he was RCA's top record producer. That was how he influended "twang." From the Wikipedia entry on the Nashville Sound:

The Nashville sound was pioneered by staff at Decca Records, RCA Records and Columbia Records in Nashville, Tennessee, including manager Steve Sholes, record producers Chet Atkins, Owen Bradley, and Bob Ferguson, and recording engineer Bill Porter. They invented the form by replacing elements of the popular honky tonk style (fiddles, steel guitar, nasal lead vocals) with "smooth" elements from 1950s pop music (string sections, background vocals, crooning lead vocals), and using "slick" production, and pop music structures.

It almost seems sacrilegious that Chet would remove the steel guitar although I think it has come back somewhat - even in some classic songs (Eagles, NGDB and others). Even the electric fiddle shows up occasionally (CSN&Y).

 

[TheBigA]

It almost seems sacrilegious that Chet would remove the steel guitar although I think it has come back somewhat - even in some classic songs (Eagles, NGDB and others). Even the electric fiddle shows up occasionally (CSN&Y).

The irony is that as country went pop in the 60s, some pop stars were going country...more country than Nashville. And that led to Nashville refusing to accept the long-haired pop stars like Gram Parsons or Neil Young, both of whom chose to record in Nashville in the early 70s. Chris Hillman, who played with The Byrds and the Burrito Brothers, and then went on to have country success with the Desert Rose Band, was boo'd off the stage when he made his debut at the Ryman Auditorium in the late 60s.

John Denver found himself having huge crossover hits from the pop side in the early 70s with songs like (Take Me Home) Country Roads and Thank God I'm a Country Boy. At the time, he would not have been able to record such songs in Nashville. The ultimate irony was those songs got him chosen as the CMA's Entertainer of the Year. When he read Denver's name, CountryPolitan crooner Charlie Rich pulled out his lighter and torched the card. At the time, Denver's music was actually countrier than Rich's.

 

[landtuna]

It almost seems sacrilegious that Chet would remove the steel guitar although I think it has come back somewhat - even in some classic songs (Eagles, NGDB and others). Even the electric fiddle shows up occasionally (CSN&Y).

The irony is that as country went pop in the 60s, some pop stars were going country...more country than Nashville. And that led to Nashville refusing to accept the long-haired pop stars like Gram Parsons or Neil Young, both of whom chose to record in Nashville in the early 70s. Chris Hillman, who played with The Byrds and the Burrito Brothers, and then went on to have country success with the Desert Rose Band, was boo'd off the stage when he made his debut at the Ryman Auditorium in the late 60s.

John Denver found himself having huge crossover hits from the pop side in the early 70s with songs like (Take Me Home) Country Roads and Thank God I'm a Country Boy. At the time, he would not have been able to record such songs in Nashville. The ultimate irony was those songs got him chosen as the CMA's Entertainer of the Year. When he read Denver's name, CountryPolitan crooner Charlie Rich pulled out his lighter and torched the card. At the time, Denver's music was actually countrier than Rich's.

That's interesting. It does seem as if country singers believe it is more important to have that country look than anything else. Some of the older performers, now gone, used to dress more like the Vegas Elvis than anything I ever saw worn on the farm. Perhaps that is a reason I prefer "soft country" artists like Don Williams and Charley Pride. They are country without being corny.

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

A few thoughts:
1. Chet Atkins modifying Country music? Chet was one of the best guitar players I ever heard but I don't think he ever did vocals - at least I never heard any. How would he influence the "twang"?
2. Keith Urban speaks with an Aussie accent - no American country twang at all. Just heard him in an interview again yesterday.

Chet Atkins did do vocals on a handful of what I would call "novelty songs", none from which I could detect a twang. One was a laugher from 1976 called Frog Kissin'.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HQoJo_4_-A

Shortly before his death, he sang vocals on one of his guest appearances on Country Family Reunion (RFD). Eerily, I remember one CFR taping featuring both him and Skeeter Davis, each donning hats to cover their balding heads. Both eventually succumbed to cancer.

Keith Urban-- I absolutely agree, no American country accent at all. Have to concede, my distaste for today's so-called "country" aside, Urban is a very engaging personality and I truly like him. He seems down to earth.

 

[scott salvatori]

The irony is that as country went pop in the 60s, some pop stars were going country...more country than Nashville. And that led to Nashville refusing to accept the long-haired pop stars like Gram Parsons or Neil Young, both of whom chose to record in Nashville in the early 70s. Chris Hillman, who played with The Byrds and the Burrito Brothers, and then went on to have country success with the Desert Rose Band, was boo'd off the stage when he made his debut at the Ryman Auditorium in the late 60s.

interesting how some of the non country blooded music counter culture like gram, and chris, was actually more country than what much of the main stream was pushin for the radio hits back then. these are just musical genius's not being bound by corporate lines in the sand as to what they can and cant put on a record. sure, most of it never charted as hits, nor sold millions, but later on our heros waylon and willie took that counter establishment angst and had big hits. actually, not much different going on today either, in fact more so(less the hits). if you take the time to bipass the force fed radio chart hit game circus, and explore deeper into the alternative, and texas country scene, the country actually gets a lot more hardcore, edgier, and REAL. if you actually turn off the FM country radio sugar sweetened crack box, and take the time to venture down that non chart/hits/radio musical fork in the road(ya, its the dusty, pot hole filled gravel road, pal). yep, there you'll find hard core country acts like dale watson, hank 3, the derailers, james hand, kelly willis, sunny sweeny, and even veterans like haggard, don williams, and gene watson still puttin out decent "countrified" country albums that help continue advancing our great country music heritage into the future.

 

[TheBigA]

Using your logic, then Willie & Waylon shouldn't be revered, because they made corporate country music, accepted and praised by the same establishment that loved Charlie Rich and boo'd Gram Parsons. Calling it "counter establishment angst" ignores the fact that it was released on the same major corporate record labels that created the mushy poppy Nashville sound in the 60s. The same Willie Nelson who wrote "Whiskey River" also sang a stupid duet with Julio Iglacias. In truth, it wasn't counter establishment, but used the very same system that Keith Urban and Carrie Underwood use today.

 

[landtuna]

Keith Urban-- I absolutely agree, no American country accent at all. Have to concede, my distaste for today's so-called "country" aside, Urban is a very engaging personality and I truly like him. He seems down to earth.

I agree. Having heard him only in one interview he did sound like the only sane panel member on Idol (or whatever show he's on).

 

[scott salvatori]

willie and waylon was able to pull it off cause they was head strong established country artists, and muscle flexed into gettin their musical freedom with the corporate hierachy at the record companies. waylons masterpiece was the "outlaws" album recorded with his own band, not the SOP session players. willies masterpiece was the "stardust" album, which he fought for and the record company resisted and considered it to be a flop. a trillion record sales later, looks like willie, and waymore was right. my hero, hank jr. also kicked off a nice independent streak with curb records, with the 1977 release "the new south" and the kick ass single "feelin' better", which waylon had a hand in producing. yours truly, dont broadbrush everything thats big record company produced as corporate trash. i'm just lookin' out for the artform of our unique USA country music heritage that started as a trickle of water in bristol tennessee three or four generations ago. it dont matter in my eyes whether a country artist is recorded and produced by mom and pop productions in an old garage, or dick cheneys haliburton recording company subsidy in a glass building in new york. lest we not forget it was the big record companies that conceded and let waylon be waylon, and willie be willie, and hank jr., be hank jr. later on in the 80's it was also the big record companies, and some ballsy producers that took a chance on out of left field twangers, dwight yoakam and steve earle and scored chart success. if it werent for them taking a chance, the masses would most likely never have heard of them two boys. in my opinion, many large record companies, and producers would love to offer up something different besides cotton candy fluff to major market country radio. but, if radio aint gonna rotate it, and get it known, then they aint gonna sell records and make money. yep, my big finger pointing blame for the last three decades goes to the centralized gate keepers at corporate headquarter radio and the programming monopoly they control via major markets. it is the few dumbdowned bean counters, who make the decisions as to what gets rotated from the start, and what eventually becomes part of the trickle down hit making machine....

 

[firepoint525]

As for Kid "Rock," he actually has a star on the country music walk of fame here in Nashville. Not sure what he did to get that! I'm sure that many country "purists" were not too happy with that one!

It's actually called the Music City Walk of Fame. Has nothing to do with country music. Heck, Dan Miller has a star there, and he was a TV newsman.

Whatever. : The "kid" is probably best-known here for getting arrested at a Waffle House. : At least Miller was from here.

 

[TheBigA]

it is the few dumbdowned bean counters, who make the decisions as to what gets rotated from the start, and what eventually becomes part of the trickle down hit making machine....

It sounds like if they do what you like, you like them. If they don't, you don't.

 

[scott salvatori]

yep, kinda like the police. if they catch us for speedin' we dont like them. if they catch the murderers and bank robbers we love em.

It sounds like if they do what you like, you like them. If they don't, you don't.

yep, if they put out good heart and soul, country, i like. if they dont, i dont like. hows bout you? just kinda go with the flow, nothin bad, nothin good?

 

[TheBigA]

yep, kinda like the police. if they catch us for speedin' we dont like them. if they catch the murderers and bank robbers we love em.

The problem is that people have different tastes. There is no good or bad, only what's popular.

 

[firepoint525]

John Denver found himself having huge crossover hits from the pop side in the early 70s with songs like (Take Me Home) Country Roads and Thank God I'm a Country Boy. At the time, he would not have been able to record such songs in Nashville. The ultimate irony was those songs got him chosen as the CMA's Entertainer of the Year. When he read Denver's name, CountryPolitan crooner Charlie Rich pulled out his lighter and torched the card. At the time, Denver's music was actually countrier than Rich's.

I always laugh about that because Rich himself was (at least at one time) a "crossover" himself. I believe that he originated in the Sun Records "rockabilly" movement of the late '50s, then "went country" sometime in the '60s, then crossed BACK over to pop in the '70s. I am old enough to remember "Behind Closed Doors" and "The Most Beautiful Girl" getting HEAVY pop airplay back in the '70s.

 

[scott salvatori]

The problem is that people have different tastes. There is no good or bad, only what's popular.

not the point of the original rant, but thanks for the trip down this rabbit trail...

what if the centralized control gov't dictated your daily food choices from birth as only mcdonalds, wendys, and burger king, and thats the only taste you were socially engineered to except as normal and exposed to. not good huh?

kinda like major market countrypolitan radio programming a dictated playlist from a centralized control cabal of consultants, which by cause and effect, sets the positions on the charts based upon airplay rotation, which by cause and effect, sets the chart positions. looks like the dog is chasing its tail.

what if you was only socially engineered to know and except mcdonalds, wendys, and burger king every day from birth, and not get exposed to pizza, lobster, salmon, rib eye steaks, roast beef, and fried chicken?

yep, kinda the same b.s. we see with the fake twang, and the centralized control of the music. most of the programmed to minions are missin out on the kick ass'n country hank 3, the new don williams, the old merle haggard, and some killer old hits from waylon, and patsy!

if you dont get it, you aint never been there in the first place, pal.

 

[TheBigA]

what if the centralized control gov't dictated your daily food choices from birth as only mcdonalds, wendys, and burger king, and thats the only taste you were socially engineered to except as normal and exposed to. not good huh?

A private business like radio is not like a government. But thanks for attempting to make the comparison.

No one is dictating anything as far as music taste. People are welcome to listen to anything they want.

However, using your misguided analogy, you would want the government to force McDonalds and other fast food places to offer a more diversified menu, with pizza, lobster, salmon, and everything else. The government isn't going to do that, just as no one should require OTA radio to play all kinds of music.

 

[satech]

A private business like radio is not like a government. But thanks for attempting to make the comparison.

A better comparison would be to AT&T or Standard Oil -- corporations that were monopolies. It's hard to look at U.S. radio today and not say that corporations like Clear Channel, Cumulus, Entercom, and CBS have a collective monopoly on ownership of radio stations. Just look at what happened to the Dixie Chicks when these big radio corporations decided to stop playing their music. It only takes a few people in the national headquarters of these companies to make decisions that affect thousands of radio stations under their ownership.

 

[TheBigA]

It's hard to look at U.S. radio today and not say that corporations like Clear Channel, Cumulus, Entercom, and CBS have a collective monopoly on ownership of radio stations.

They are all independent and competing companies, and their music policies reflect that they're competing. Plus if you add all the stations those companies own, it barely makes 15% of OTA radio. They don't act as a collective.

Just look at what happened to the Dixie Chicks when these big radio corporations decided to stop playing their music.

The only company that stopped playing Chicks music, and this is a documented fact, was Cumulus. The reason country radio stopped playing the Chicks was because of listener reaction. Any business has to respond to their customers, and country radio listeners, by a wide margin, didn't want to hear the Chicks, especially in markets where there were military bases. There were numerous polls done at the time, and the Chicks themselves were vocal about not wanting to be on country radio. They even wrote a song about it.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I am old enough to remember "Behind Closed Doors" and "The Most Beautiful Girl" getting HEAVY pop airplay back in the '70s.

They still do.

It's a different kind of pop radio but it's pop radio.