Sure they have. Southern rock is as big in NYC as it is in Atlanta. Same with country music. That wasn't the case when you had regional labels. Musical tastes have been homogenized along with local food, accents, and religion. Blame national chain stores, TV, and the internet. Local radio is the one hold-out in a world where everything else has been nationalized. Local musicians depend on network TV talent shows to get signed. Not local radio.
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HD stations should make HD a priority
- Thread starter nd2023
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Sure they have. Southern rock is as big in NYC as it is in Atlanta. Same with country music. That wasn't the case when you had regional labels. Musical tastes have been homogenized along with local food, accents, and religion. Blame national chain stores, TV, and the internet. Local radio is the one hold-out in a world where everything else has been nationalized. Local musicians depend on network TV talent shows to get signed. Not local radio.
Just because some types of a given thing have broad appeal across the country does not mean that there aren't still regional differences when it comes to that thing, music included. For example, as I mentioned, alternative music is popular here in the Lansing market. It would never fly in Miami. Zeta tried it once and almost immediately flipped back to rock because people hated it. And even then, Zeta was a rock holdout, evidenced by the fact that the market hasn't been able to support a rock station since they flipped to "CHRUrban." That they had to go back to rock because alternative was so unpopular says a lot. But up here in Lansing, people love it. On the other hand, if you tried to put, say, a station like WAVS on the air in Lansing, everyone here would ask why. There would simply be no audience for it.
It's not about local musicians, it's about serving the local tastes, and those most certainly vary from market to market, region to region and state to state.
It's not about local musicians, it's about serving the local tastes, and those most certainly vary from market to market, region to region and state to state.
Those general things like formats are still made on a market-by-market basis. Obviously local demographics play a big part in format choices. But not as much with regards to the specific songs they play. Today the big hits are known nationally. Sixty years ago, you had regional hits.
You're not getting what I'm saying here. There should be market-by-market crossovers, stations that tailor their playlists to the tastes of the listeners regardless of the supposed format. An alternative station that plays crossovers from CHR, a hip-hop station that plays crossovers from Spanish contemporary, a modern rock station that playes crossovers from country. You don't hear these things anymore, and not because the listeners would tune out but because everything is a national playlist, originating from outside the market, completely disregarding what could and would make the station exciting to listen to. Not to mention the elimination of local talent and any locally-relevant content. Regional hits are not the issue here, the issue is localism. There's a very big difference.
I think you're attempting to invent local differences that don't exist. As I've discussed in other places, the music industry is very careful to prevent "national playlists" imposed by central corporate offices. They pay companies like Billboard/BDS and Mediabase to monitor local playlists for any evidence of such nationalization. If it happens, those local station are dropped from reporting panels, and will no longer receive any direct contests or promotions from the record labels. They will not be permitted to be part of the Billboard or Mediabase reporter panel.
But as I said, musical culture isn't strictly a local thing. Having "local talent" has absolutely nothing to do with anything. There are still thousands and thousands of radio stations with full local staffs and it don't mean squat if all the music is coming from three international record labels all based in LA.
Then you'd be wrong.
HAHAHA! The hell they are! Why do you think there are entire threads about Cumulus playlists and Jan Jeffries demanding the local managers adhere exactly to the playlists coming from HQ? That's what Cumulus is best known for doing! And they have never faced reprisals for it! If the labels and chart companies have a system in place to prevent that behavior, they've been asleep at the switch for decades! Haha! Good grief...
There are thousands and thousands of stations with some local staffs. Very few stations today, even in the major markets, are live and local 24/7 anymore.
So you're believing posts on message boards rather than documented monitored playlists overseen by qualified and independent organizations like Billboard?
You can believe anonymous message board posts all you want. But record labels are very careful how they spend their time and money. They're not going to waste it on a station that has no authority over its playlist. And they know who does and who doesn't.
No, I believe the people whom I know personally who were there to suffer the consequences when it happened. That's how I know that the message board posts are true, because friends of mine have been through it themselves.
You honestly have no clue what you're talking about.
So far, you've posted no documented facts. Playlists are a matter of public record, easily checked online, and documented by independent sources. Unless you have some actual facts, I have no reason to believe you.
You have no reason to doubt me, either. And yes, playlists ARE easily checked online... but whether or not they were generated elsewhere is not. The facts are plain, and I gave them to you.
Those aren't facts, they're rumors. The facts are gathered by Billboard and the record labels. They have no reason to spend money trying to pursue PDs at stations to play their record if those PDs have no authority. Clearly, those PDs have authority to make local decisions, regardless of what your "friends" or anonymous posters tell you.
Haha! You are so wrong that it's almost painful to watch you self-destruct like this. Almost.
Yet you criticize in other posts one of the stations that does all of its music and programming decisions locally, Pio Ferro's WPOW consulted by 40-year Miami veteran Bill Tanner.
Ughhhh. How many times did you hear them in the past? A few things like novelty tune La Macarena, remixed by DJ Laz for the Power audience and then way back, "Eres Tu". You can count on the fingers of your hand the Spanish language songs that have been hits on English language CHR's going back to Richie Valens. You are grasping for straws to prove a point that is not a point but, in fact, the exception that makes the rule.
Did you see me criticizing them for not choosing music locally? No. I criticized them for the kinds of music they were choosing when they dropped all EDM tracks in late 1999, and I've praised them for adding more EDM back into their playlist in recent years. I've been critical of some of their musical choices over the years outside of that framework, but Tanner has mostly done a respectable job. Unfortunately, the changes for the better were made later than they should have been, and the station has never fully recovered from the disaster that ended their ratings-topping success.
I don't grasp for straws, I present facts. We're not talking about the random crossover hit, we're talking about a rejection of the strict definitions of what a given format plays on a permanent basis, not crossover hits. Neither are we talking about what's happened in the past, we're talking about what's happening NOW. Station formats are, for the most part, plug and play with no regard as to what musical combinations the listeners in a given market want to hear together. Stations like Power 96 are the exception, not the rule.
No, they are not.
As has been previously posted by others, the consolidation in the music industry has pretty much eliminated the regional or local hit.
And the vastly more rapid exchange of information from all manner of new media outlets has made the same songs hits both nationally and, in many cases, internationally.
Further, programmers used to rely on slow turnover reporting such as Gavin, FMQB, R&R and the sales based Billboard charts that reflected, when published, a reality that was already weeks if not a month old. Today, we look at what stations are playing right now across the country, and we try to pick up on the breakers and movers.
Within companies, stations in the same format exchange information. They look at MScores company wide. And they use all the data at hand to make music decisions.
Crossovers were a big thing when there were limited stations and fewer discreet formats. As FM grew in the 70's, crossovers were dramatically reduced as listeners knew they did not have to put up with formats that played lots of songs they did not like because those stations were intentionally very broad. Fragmentation of audiences killed crossovers, not programmers.
Power cut back on the EDM because it did not test when the hip-hop onslaught occurred. Gradually, those hip hop driven formats started to evolve, including a variety of elements such as newer EDM. It's cyclical, just as all forms of Top 40 have been since the mid-50's.
I believe that Power ranks as high in billings in the market as it ever has, so saying that it was or is a disaster is just not true.
Billing is all well and good, but listnership is down significantly compared to their competitors in the demographic. Has been ever since that change in '99.
As for the rest of it, all the excuses in the world don't account for the reality of the situation. What you're describing just proves my point, anyway. You claim that there's faster sharing of data (which is true) and that stations of the same format in the same company share data (which is also true), but that doesn't mean that they all have to use it in the same way, and when you look at playlists across the country, it's very apparent that they do. That's not because of faster data sharing or because musical tastes have become generic, it's because the companies designate specific genres of music for certain formats, and stations are not to deviate from those genres. There is no risk-taking anymore, there is no attempt to grab all of a demo instead of just the listeners within it who like pop or country or hip-hop. And God forbid they hire live, local talent who actually know the market and the music they like, that's just asking for way too much.
David, trust me, I wish what you're saying was correct. I wish with everything in me that radio hadn't made a conscious effort to implode. But they did, and they're succeeding. That's why I left while I still could. I refused to be a part of it. I create and do things correctly. I will not be a part of an industry's self-abortion. It was, unfortunately, the right decision to make, because every problem I predicted as far back as 1997 has come to fruition. Deny it all you want, but as these stations all die off, I won't even have to say "I told you so," because you'll already be thinking it.
As for the rest of it, all the excuses in the world don't account for the reality of the situation. What you're describing just proves my point, anyway. You claim that there's faster sharing of data (which is true) and that stations of the same format in the same company share data (which is also true), but that doesn't mean that they all have to use it in the same way, and when you look at playlists across the country, it's very apparent that they do. That's not because of faster data sharing or because musical tastes have become generic, it's because the companies designate specific genres of music for certain formats, and stations are not to deviate from those genres. There is no risk-taking anymore, there is no attempt to grab all of a demo instead of just the listeners within it who like pop or country or hip-hop. And God forbid they hire live, local talent who actually know the market and the music they like, that's just asking for way too much.
David, trust me, I wish what you're saying was correct. I wish with everything in me that radio hadn't made a conscious effort to implode. But they did, and they're succeeding. That's why I left while I still could. I refused to be a part of it. I create and do things correctly. I will not be a part of an industry's self-abortion. It was, unfortunately, the right decision to make, because every problem I predicted as far back as 1997 has come to fruition. Deny it all you want, but as these stations all die off, I won't even have to say "I told you so," because you'll already be thinking it.
Listenership to all radio has fallen about 55% since the year 2000 in the PPM markets. Of that, 40% was due to the changes in methodology and about 15% due to losses to new media options that did not exist in the year 2000. Since radio sells based on audience delivery, there is a commensurate reduction in real dollars available to an ever-increasing number of stations. So it is all about billing. And WPOW's billings have held up pretty well.
In any case, even with a new ratings methodology WPOW is very consistent. In 18-34 in Spring 1998, WPOW had a 9.3. In 2000, after what you say was the "disaster" of 1999, they had a 10.3. And now, in the PPM, they have averaged in the mid-8's all this year. This is, coincidentally, in total synchronization with the diary to PPM relationship of WEDR, the other consistent 18-34 performer that is not in Spanish; both are off about 15% to 20% when compared to the diary survey.
You can't go for "all" of a demo any more because consumers have thousands of choices that don't deviate from the plan. I recall, as a kid, the Top 40 I listened to would play about one song out of every three that I hated. I'd either change to one of the other 2 Top 40's in the market, or turn off the radio. Today, I would not expect a CHR to play the equivalent of Dean Martin, Dominico Modugno or Dave Baby Cortez in between the rock and roll hits. If they did, I'd be gone.
The issue today is not "implosion" but adapting to a consumer that increasingly considers smartphones to be their radio and is fascinated by pull media while radio is a push medium.
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