By then WABC was no longer Top 40. Sklar was also no longer PD. He was promoted in 1977, and after that, the ratings dropped, music kept changing, and basically was a rudderless ship. They were killed by WKTU in 1978. By 1981, WABC was the flagship for the Yankees, and hired talk host Art Rust Jr. Meanwhile WNBC hired Howard Stern in 1982, and promoted their all-star DJ lineup with Imus, Stern, and Wolfman. Even then, the days for WNBC were limited, and Stern was fired in 1985.
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Drake Vs. Sklar
- Thread starter MasterDJ
- Start date
Once again, I've picked the wrong week to stop taking the Lord's name in vain.
WABC didn't fail just because it was on AM. If that were the case WNBC wouldn't have still been top ten (and to hell with what happened three years later to 'NBC. It hadn't happened yet).
WABC didn't have successful direct Top 40 format competition on FM. The closest was WPIX-FM and it ranked lower than WABC at its lowest.
Yeah, they lost to WKTU, but 'KTU was not just on FM, it was a fresh sound. WABC was old-school AM Top 40.
And again---if you're doing so poorly with that basic sound in New York City---to the point that you're dumping it---what makes you think trying to syndicated it nationwide is a good idea?
WABC didn't fail just because it was on AM. If that were the case WNBC wouldn't have still been top ten (and to hell with what happened three years later to 'NBC. It hadn't happened yet).
WABC didn't have successful direct Top 40 format competition on FM. The closest was WPIX-FM and it ranked lower than WABC at its lowest.
Yeah, they lost to WKTU, but 'KTU was not just on FM, it was a fresh sound. WABC was old-school AM Top 40.
And again---if you're doing so poorly with that basic sound in New York City---to the point that you're dumping it---what makes you think trying to syndicated it nationwide is a good idea?
1977 was the year that, nationally, more listening went to FM than AM. 1975 was the year when more music listening went to FM.
Besides that, the earlier FM Top 40 stations tended to run far fewer commercial minutes, sounded better, and attracted the newest teams of talent as DJs.
The 70's was the decade when "Morning Zoo" and the like shows developed, and those drove listening the rest of the day. There were lots of reasons why there were changes in listening patterns but I'd say that, other than the migration of music listeners to FM, mornings began to drive all young adult focused stations.
The later 70's was also when Top 40 began to focus on young adult women as their core, leaving the teen promotions and focus behind.
Yes I know. Both WABC and WNBC were being beat by FM music stations. Even beautiful music was beating WNBC. RKO had a Top 40 station on FM in the 70s, but they saw a better opportunity by flipping to KISS. They became one of the most popular stations in NY.
It depends on the year. At one point, WABC was AC. They dropped their heritage MusicRadio name. They added the NY Yankees. All terrible decisions that hurt the ratings.
I thought I already answered this question. Rick Sklar, the topic of this thread, ceased to be the PD of WABC in 1977. He was replaced by a bunch of people who made bad decisions. This satellite format was bringing back Sklar in the PD role.
You asked what were they thinking. I gave you the answer and the context. Even with that, they ultimately pulled the plug before the launch. So it was a bad idea. But as I've been saying, that wasn't unusual for ABC.
"Even"? In nearly every market Beautiful Music was beating all or just one or two stations. And that was true all through the 70's and well into the mid 1980's. In several markets we had two Beautiful Music stations both in the top 10,
I saw that after I replied. Too damn early in the morning for me to be on RD. You made a good point.
We are not making a fair comparison here. Those falling numbers were ABC's attempt to transition WABC to Full Service and then to Talk.
WNBC was a true Top 40 in those days. It was also limiting its commercial load to make it viable with FM competition. It only ran NBC network news a few times a day, daytime-only, just a minute or two. And news ran five minutes before the hour, hiding within a spot break. Bob Pittman (who later ran MTV and is now the CEO of iHeart) was the program director, trying to make 660 AM sound like an FM station. Even down to playing the longer, album version of some songs, again to mimic FM style.
At this point, WABC was a Full Service Hot AC. It had stopped playing most hits, rock or urban, that had minimal adult appeal. No more WABC chime jingles prerecorded at the end of each song. Like a full service station, WABC now had news at the top of the hour, switching from ABC Contemporary to the ABC Information Network, followed by a local newscast. It carried the Yankees and ran sports talk in the early evening when they weren't playing. Before this change-over, it had hired a great DJ. Howard Hoffman, for evenings, thinking he'd be wild and get a good teen audience. But he finished his two year contract on overnights when the station decided he was too wild for its more toned-down sound.
WABC was nothing like what SuperRadio was going to sound like. If you haven't heard Dan Ingram's demo tape, check it out. Dan is great and the format sounded like something you might enjoy in those days, if it got carried on an FM station in your market.
The falling numbers started almost four years prior. WABC's last number one book (with a 9.0) was July/August 1978.
The trend from there?
7.1 (2nd place)
1979:
6.2 (2nd place)
5.9 (4th place)
5.8 (4th place)
4.6 (6th place)
1980:
4.5 (6th place)
4.5 (7th place)
4.2 (8th place and the first behind WNBC)
3.6 (10th place)
1981:
3.5 (11th place)
4.6 (7th place, tied with WNBC)
3.7 (12th place)
3.1 (12th place)
But it was still AM. And that approach didn't help KHJ under John Sebastian. Also, your timeline is off. Pittman left WNBC in 1979. What you describe happened between 1977 and 1979.
I've heard it. I heard it at the time. I was programming a station that got the pitch to be a SuperRadio affiliate. It sounded dated---a different era of Top 40 certainly from what was happening here in the West, where KIIS-FM was becoming a powerhouse and KFRC was remarkable.
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Which corresponds with Sklar's departure in March 1977.
And the PD of WRCA was Bob Pittman who seems to fall upwards over and over. He came from a Top 40 FM in Pittsbugh which could not beat a horribly directional high-on-the-dial AM owned by Cecil Heftel. He went to WNBC, where he tried to make an AM sound like an FM and failed again.
As someone who listened to American Top 40 stations for ideas to use in South America where I built the continents first Top 40 station, I found exactly the same thing: WABC sounded, even when it was at its best, more stodgy than stations like KHJ or even WABC's sister WLS. I always thought that was the conservatism of Sklar such as going on songs late, using contests and promotions that had been successful various times in other markets.
WABC tried to sound "big" but on occasion I found it "pompous" instead.
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What saved Bob and got him the WNBC gig was what came in between Pittsburgh and New York---WMAQ, Chicago. Yeah, it was Lee Sherwood who flipped it, but Bob was his MD and Assistant PD and when Lee moved on, Bob got his gig---riding the rocket after it had already launched.
I still conclude that it was the mass exodus to FM for music that ultimately killed WABC. In the late 60's, Drake formatics yielded tremendous influence over Top 40 radio, and in the early 70's, the Q format made its presence known. But WABC stayed old school and still dominated the NY ratings.
WABC did have direct FM competition in the 70's in the form of 99X (the former WOR-FM) and to its credit adjusted its positioning ("The most music, WABC" and "The music sounds best on WABC") and its clock (3 in a row and then 6 in a row), and stayed strong. After Al Brady made a last attempt at Top 40, WABC shifted to a more adult sound, which was what it was running against the WNBC ratings you quoted.
As far as Superadio, you're expressing an opinion, but there are other possible reasons why it never got off the ground, several of which were expressed here by David and The Big A. And by the way, I've seen some funny things in the ratings in other markets as the music audience moved to FM, i.e. AM's with inferior signals that had never won beating out powerful previously dominant stations.
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I partially agree with you. The Drake stations had tremendous talent who could be brilliant within the confines of the tight format. But Bill Drake single-handedly changed the sound of Top 40 radio in the U.S. PD's such as Ron Jacobs may have brought it over the finish line, but I think you still have to give Drake himself a good deal of the credit.
Absolutely. What people don't see when they look at WABC's last days as a music station is that they had been adding more talk and sports in the final years. As you say, they gradually became an AC station or similar to a full service AM with the addition of the Yankees in 1981. They went out with a whimper, and the NY market was all in for FM radio by the end of the 70s.
I do. In the battle of drake vs sklar, I vote for Drake. My comment about talent was more aimed at Sklar, who had great talent.
Drake thought about radio as a big canvas, and that's why he was able to transition into consulting & syndication. Not so for Sklar.
I agree, and that was my thought about WNBC. It was not so much that they beat ABC, but that ABC was such a wounded dog that it fell below WNBC.
Which brings us back to Haggerty's question about Superadio, and why would they use this declining station for this new service. Another reason is that Superadio was a creation of ABC Enterprises, not ABC Radio Network. It was run mainly by a sales guy, Mike Hauptman, who stayed at ABC until 1988. His job was to create new ventures and opportunities. He wasn't really a programming guy. The programming part was Sklar. Once they made that decision, that's the result they got.
Wish I'd been in NY in the 80s to catch Soupy Sales on WNBC. Soupy was always one of my favorite entertainers.
Remember, most TV artists who are used to scripted shows can't improvise and entertain for 3 or 4 hours a day!
