Do heritage call letters matter?

[raccoonradio]

Some say they don't and memorable, heritage calls are ditched but you never know. I have said
that since the 99.9 in in Athol, // WXRV, now has the WFNX calls, I wondered if they would flip them to 92.5 and you could have "WFNX 92.5, the River" (since they still must like the River name). Yes
the music they play is more adult album alternative than alternative, but they got those WFNX
calls for the 99.9 for a reason. Unless it was to "sell" them later? People remember the spirit of
WFNX, and 92.5 highlights the "independent radio" angle. So who knows.

Greater gets the WROR calls for 105.7...was there a reason? Did they want to bring back
memories of 98.5, or at least bring back memorable calls?
Bittner gets WJIB calls for 740. Why?
WMEX calls wind up on various frequencies like 1150 Boston (IIRC), 106.5 NH, 102.9 in VT.
Why?

WBZ and WRKO retain their heritage calls. The religious station at 590 is WEZE. And so on.
Yeah, 96.9 had WTKK for awhile and then became WBQT but they had ditched the talk format.
(And yes the calls were picked up in NC but that was more for the tkk = "talk" meaning, not
any memories, and the folks down there tuning in to CBS Radio Sports on "WBCN 1660" don't
recall their heritage here in Boston...but CBS is "parking them". You never know, they could
come back here if...)

Anyway maybe they won't put the FNX calls on 92.5 but who knows? Someone heard them run
a liner on the 99.9 saying "We're 99.9 per cent WFNX"...

 

[raccoonradio]

Shawn M responded to my post on b-r-i about this and said FNX and 92.5 aren't quite the same type of music, though I responded by saying they both seem(ed) to embrace an independent, alternative
viewpoint (he said he stopped listening to FNX when they got younger, brasher DJs and he wasn't into the music as much--but switched to the River and stayed).

My response:
Good point, though I still am left wondering why they bothered to get the WFNX calls for the 99.9 and other than a reported liner of "We're 99.9 per cent WFNX", are not making use of them the way they could. Indeed, music not the same but WXRV uses "Boston's Independent Radio" slogan and some folks who may have listened to FNX before might find one of their old favorites popping up on 92.5/99.9 (like XTC Generals and Majors from 80s)

I do believe at least one FNX personality was or is at 92.5, Joanne Doody; correct?

Yes, I don't think the latter day FNX image would jell with The River--if anything the sale of the station whose parent paper allied with the Occupy movement, to _Clear Channel_ of all people, was a bit shocking!-- but the image of "non-corporate, non-mainstream" media may be what they have in common.

 

[aerie]

"Heritage" call letters meant something when stations were proud of them and used them frequently on the air so that people keeping diaries knew what station they were listening to. Now call letters are usually mumbled somewhere near the top of the hour between two commercials. I doubt most Kiss 108 or Jammin 94.5 listeners even know the call letters of the station they are listening to.

 

[raccoonradio]

Right though when they started they got calls that were similar to the slogan: WXKS-Kiss,
WJMN--Jammin'. Now with PPM diaries etc...
Of course the likes of WRKO, WBZ, WGBH, WBUR etc are heritage calls used proudly...
they tend to have older listeners though, while those appealing to younger ones get the
slogans most of all. 103.3 is still WODS, right? But it's the Amp slogan that matters in promotion.

Remember btw when some stations had nicknames with a letter of the calls, and the freq.?

F-105: WVBF Framingham
X-15: WMEX Boston (70s?)

 

[aerie]

I never listened when KISS 108 was being simulcast in Maine, but I would have hated to have to say "WXKS-FM Medford Boston and WSKX-FM York Center" too many times. What a tongue twister! Probably the most time-consuming station ID is for New Hampshire Public Radio. I'm surprised they can't get the secondary stations to identify automatically so that the WEVO announcer doesn't have to go through the long list of Class A and LPFM repeaters.

 

[jlehmann]

I never listened when KISS 108 was being simulcast in Maine, but I would have hated to have to say "WXKS-FM Medford Boston and WSKX-FM York Center" too many times. What a tongue twister! Probably the most time-consuming station ID is for New Hampshire Public Radio. I'm surprised they can't get the secondary stations to identify automatically so that the WEVO announcer doesn't have to go through the long list of Class A and LPFM repeaters.

When Kiss 108 was simulcasting; on 95.3, they ran their own legal IDs on 95.3. "WSKX" was never heard on 107.9.

 

[Schuyler]

Heritage calls may mean something to older demos, but I don't believe they matter much to most non-heritage listeners. Still, there's no need to add to the confusion. Back in the day, it seemed to me that request line callers (remember request lines? remember callers?) often got the calls wrong, but usually got the frequency right. If they looked up the number in the phone book, they would request a song that wasn't in my station's format and if I asked what they were listening to they'd
give the frequency of a competing station (remember competition?).

When WFNX Athol was WXRG, at least the calls sounded like those of the River. Before that they were WNYN, which tied in with 99.9 (or at least was supposed to). WFNX's signal doesn't make it past Greenfield, which may be a relief for 93.9 WRSI Northampton, which is also called "the River." WRSI does get into Athol, by the way.

Speaking of Greater Athol, WFNX is simulcast on 700 kHz WTUB Orange. The Big Tub of River water was formerly WPNS (not a **** and bull story), and originally WCAT, "the Cat with the kilowatt meow." Today it's 2.5 kw and for over a week it has broadcast awful audio at a very low level with no highs or midrange, just muddy bass. Maybe the engineer's gone WILD.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

Now with PPM diaries etc...

There is no such thing as "PPM diaries." PPM is an electronic listening device. A diary is a written log. Do not confuse or conflate the two.

 

[raccoonradio]

The demo may be a bit older, otherwise would we be hearing "News1030" or "NewsTalk1030"?

And yes I was wrong to call it a diary.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

In PPM markets (like Boston) call signs are irrelevant, as far as audience measurement is concerned. In diary markets, call signs are more important.

 

[del_griffith]

In PPM markets (like Boston) call signs are irrelevant, as far as audience measurement is concerned. In diary markets, call signs are more important.

If everything were pure PPM ratings measurement perspective......calls (or position statements) are no longer meaningful.

From the best form of advertising............word of mouth...........it still deeply matters.

 

[KeithE4]

From the best form of advertising............word of mouth...........it still deeply matters.

Only if the callsign is being used as their brand. There will be some, such as WBZ or WGN, but not as many as years ago.

If a station brands itself as (hypothetical examples) "Q98" or "ESPN Radio 95.5," then those monickers will be what the stations will be known by, not their official callsigns of WXXX or WYYY-FM. Call letters exist today only keep the FCC happy.

It's pretty much always been that way in TV. When you want to tell someone where a Patriots game can be seen, do you say that's its on Channel 4, CBS4, or WBZ-TV? My guess is the first one.

 

[ned]

From the best form of advertising............word of mouth...........it still deeply matters.

Only if the callsign is being used as their brand. There will be some, such as WBZ or WGN, but not as many as years ago.

If a station brands itself as (hypothetical examples) "Q98" or "ESPN Radio 95.5," then those monickers will be what the stations will be known by, not their official callsigns of WXXX or WYYY-FM. Call letters exist today only keep the FCC happy.

It's pretty much always been that way in TV. When you want to tell someone where a Patriots game can be seen, do you say that's its on Channel 4, CBS4, or WBZ-TV? My guess is the first one.

I'm guessing that the folks on the TV side must feel there is some value to the WBZ calls. For some time, they were only IDing as CBS4. They went back to using the WBZ calls. Maybe to help tie it into the radio station as they do share some news resources.

 

[reelyreal]

Right, like said above, the calls only matter if they're part of the brand. That's ALWAYS been the way. You've also got two types of "heritage" calls: the call letters that have a heritage that listeners relate to (think WBZ, WTIC, WABC.) Then, there are the call letters that only have important heritage to radio nerds and industry insiders (think WXKS, etc.)

 

[CTListener]

Right, like said above, the calls only matter if they're part of the brand. That's ALWAYS been the way. You've also got two types of "heritage" calls: the call letters that have a heritage that listeners relate to (think WBZ, WTIC, WABC.) Then, there are the call letters that only have important heritage to radio nerds and industry insiders (think WXKS, etc.)

Although when the WTIC call reappeared on Hartford TV, on Channel 61 -- it had been on Channel 3 until the change to WFSB with new ownership -- it wasn't pushed at all. The imaging was Fox 61. Now it's Fox Connecticut. I don't think too many people in the Hartford market even know what Fox CT's call letters are, although everyone knows about 1080 and 96.5, which continue to use their calls in imaging.

 

[Gregg]

>>>Probably the most time-consuming station ID is for New Hampshire Public Radio. I'm surprised they can't get the secondary stations to identify automatically so that the WEVO announcer doesn't have to go through the long list of Class A and LPFM repeaters. <<<

I think Public Radio networks LIKE saying the entire list of stations in their state every hour. Not just NH but Maine, Vermont and other state NPR networks do it. I think NH Public Radio even uses a recording sometimes of average people with New England accents reading off their local station's I.D. It says "We cover the entire state, even small communities." And it lets you know where to switch your radio dial as you travel around. "I'm driving to Mount Washington this weekend. I can get NH Public Radio at 99.5 when I'm there."

As for heritage call letters, remember radio is a product, just like soap or cars. Even in a People Meter world where consumers don't HAVE to know the call letters for the station to get ratings, you still want them to talk about you to their friends. You still want people who might overhear your station on someone else's radio to know where to find you. And you still want ADVERTISERS to know who you are, in case they want to buy airtime. And the best way to establish your brand is to keep repeating those call letters (WBZ, WRKO), or easy-to-remember handle (Kiss 108, Magic 106.7) over and over.

 

[JustinT]

When Kiss 108 was simulcasting; on 95.3, they ran their own legal IDs on 95.3. "WSKX" was never heard on 107.9.

Indeed, both stations ran separate commercials, and I believe WSKX even had its own remotes, but all of the actual music/talk breaks were simulcast. The automation system never seemed to work right, so IDs and liners from WSKX would constantly fire over WXKS's music and liners.

For a much better model in the same market, WOKQ and WPKQ have it down to a science. Sometimes, the stations do their Legal IDs together, but other times they run separately. In addition, WPKQ runs Patriots football and its own newscasts, but everything syncs up in the end with far fewer glitches.

 

[TRF]

I'm guessing that the folks on the TV side must feel there is some value to the WBZ calls. For some time, they were only IDing as CBS4. They went back to using the WBZ calls. Maybe to help tie it into the radio station as they do share some news resources.

WCVB, which used to have its online presence at thebostonchannel.com, now uses wcvb.com (thebostonchannel.com and bostonchannel.com redirect there, so it's not because they lost the domains); 'TheBostonChannel' still appears below the wcvb.com logo. IIRC, the station ran spots advising viewers of the URL change.

 

[RickStarr]

People only have so much "cranial rack space" for arcane combinations of letters (or brands they don't use, or whatever.) But Heritage call letters come PRE-loaded in the brain, also (usually) with vague associations of programming (or trust or other emotional connections.) So you don't throw away those valuable links unless you need to change perceptions entirely (hence the change of WMAQ to WSCR, etc.)

You will find that even younger listeners who never hear a particular station will still have familiarity with most heritage call letters in their market. (The association might not be perfect, but it will come with emotional loading at the very least.) "WBZ" will mean something even to people who never listen. (Yes, it might even be negative, as "the station my grandmother listens to", but when a blizzard is about to appear, even that pays off and creates a potential listener for the duration, which has a chance to grow that person into a more regular listener as their life needs change.)

Some in this thread are using "Heritage" in a more casual way, as in "established brand" which is fine, but you are talking more "image momentum" than "deep seated core associations". Trying to use PRE-established associations is fine, and a standard marketing tactic (think Coke -> Diet Coke), but it doesn't really fit the 'Heritage call letters' definition, in my view.

Finally, I will just relate that back in the day before metering (and certainly in places where diaries or other non-specific measurement might still be used), that "Heritage" component was HUGE. Our research at KDKA showed that we got credit for 20% of the listening to Steelers' games, even though they were broadcast on WTAE and had been for decades. WTAE-TV refused to sell KDKA Radio spots in Steelers games because it did the same form their TV (recall) ratings and hurt their radio property, and they didn't want KDKA call letters anywhere near their Steelers' broadcasts.

 

[pariho2013]

Right though when they started they got calls that were similar to the slogan: WXKS-Kiss,
WJMN--Jammin'. Now with PPM diaries etc...
Of course the likes of WRKO, WBZ, WGBH, WBUR etc are heritage calls used proudly...
they tend to have older listeners though, while those appealing to younger ones get the
slogans most of all. 103.3 is still WODS, right? But it's the Amp slogan that matters in promotion.

Remember btw when some stations had nicknames with a letter of the calls, and the freq.?

F-105: WVBF Framingham
X-15: WMEX Boston (70s?)

And before F-105 (they had already morphed to AC by then) is the "Electronic Mama Stereo 105" days...

I remember the X-15 Air Force as well (King Arthur Knight on that timeframe at WMEX)