Could Country Return To NYC Radio?

[TomBenson]

The discussion returns...

http://mediaconfidential.blogspot.com/2012/09/can-country-music-make-comeback-on-new.html

 

[Barry]

An interesting article. But it repeats the usual opinions that while a country format would get respectable ratings and is more mainstream than ever, it won't work in NYC because the ad agencies are biased against it.
I believe that if WFME 94.7 is indeed for sale (that appears to be uncertain), that would be the best place to for country. Many of the area's country fans are in NJ, and WFME has a great signal there. They could superserve NJ country fans, and attract local NJ advertisers, bypassing Madison Ave. ad agencies. The 3 suburban country stations, Kicks 105.5/106.3, Thunder, and WJVC My Country run plenty of commercials, most of them for local businesses. Country on 94.7 should be able to do the same.

 

[disney fanatic]

Here is article from a month ago about country music and why would the format should return to NYC radio after the "Y-107" demise in 2002.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...r-swift-find-fans-big-apple-article-1.1131775

 

[ansky212]

An interesting article. But it repeats the usual opinions that while a country format would get respectable ratings and is more mainstream than ever, it won't work in NYC because the ad agencies are biased against it.

The funny thing is, country stations play the same ads that other radio stations do. It's not like they are running ads for cowboy boots and saddles. The bias is unwarranted. The problem with NYC radio, more than in other places, is that everyone is trying to get a piece of the same pie with all the CHR/Rhythmic stations.

 

[recto101]

An interesting article. But it repeats the usual opinions that while a country format would get respectable ratings and is more mainstream than ever, it won't work in NYC because the ad agencies are biased against it.

The funny thing is, country stations play the same ads that other radio stations do. It's not like they are running ads for cowboy boots and saddles. The bias is unwarranted. The problem with NYC radio, more than in other places, is that everyone is trying to get a piece of the same pie with all the CHR/Rhythmic stations.

No like San Francisco Country does not work in big cities like New York or San Francisco. I know in San Francisco more of the stations are aiming for the Hot/AC, AC pie along with sports.

 

[mary]

WYNY and Y107 were like Family!!! love to see that happen again!!

 

[XCountry285]

I could see a 94.7 WYNY or a 99.5 WYNY. Could 93.1 be 93.1 WYNY?

 

[BruceS8852]

What I don't understand is why there are country music stations in major northeastern cities like Washington, Baltimore, and Philadelphia, but not in NYC. Those stations get advertisers. Go figure.

Bruce

 

[reelyreal]

Boston, too. Hartford's got a killer country station as well.

Agencies buy country stations. If you've got the demos, agencies will buy.

 

[XCountry285]

We have half the dial playing the same music & formats. I think it's overkill personally.

 

[DavidEduardo]

What I don't understand is why there are country music stations in major northeastern cities like Washington, Baltimore, and Philadelphia, but not in NYC. Those stations get advertisers. Go figure.

Apparently this starts with the issue of lifestyle. Other parts of the Northeast have had heritage country stations. That creates familiarity with the music among the target audience.

But more than that, it's an issue of the background of the metro today. There is over 40% between African Americans and Hispanics, groups that have minimal, if any, usage of country stations. Then there is a percentage that may be as high as 20% more composed of other immigrant groups, both first and second generation, which would have no heritage and no initial interest in country.

So you are left with about 40% of the market that is non-Hispanic white. Of them, many have had no exposure to country or have no interest in that kind of music.

The issue is whether a country station could get about a 3 share in 25-54... needed to attract agency business. A 3 share really means about an 8 share of the non-Hispanic white audience... and it's doubtful that such a goal could be achieved.

It's important to keep in mind that a moderately successful non-ethnic FM music station needs a cume around 2,000,000... and the fact that a country act sold 30,000 tickets in New York does not indicate an interest of the size needed to sustain a station.

 

[BruceS8852]

What was WYNY's cume in the mid 1990s?

 

[TheBigA]

The issue is whether a country station could get about a 3 share in 25-54... needed to attract agency business. A 3 share really means about an 8 share of the non-Hispanic white audience... and it's doubtful that such a goal could be achieved.

Pete Salant was quoted in the article, and he would know the numbers. If I remember correctly, at it's peak they got a 2.2. Then things went downhill. I don't recall the quadcast getting great numbers except for NJ. That was in the days of Garth and Shania. Few people were counting cume in the 90s. It was all AQH and Share. That was before PPM.

As DE says, what really hurts is the loss of heritage. We've learned lately that if you build it, they don't always come. Radio is a habit. People stay with their favorites. There hasn't been a country station in NYC for 15 years. The country fans in the NY area have developed other ways of getting their music fix. They don't need OTA radio now. But it's not about the numbers, it's about the revenue. There are some urban country stations that get great ratings, but are still weak in the revenue department. Pete says a country station could make $8-10 million gross. That's not much when tower rent runs about a million a year.

 

[recto101]

An interesting article. But it repeats the usual opinions that while a country format would get respectable ratings and is more mainstream than ever, it won't work in NYC because the ad agencies are biased against it.

The funny thing is, country stations play the same ads that other radio stations do. It's not like they are running ads for cowboy boots and saddles. The bias is unwarranted. The problem with NYC radio, more than in other places, is that everyone is trying to get a piece of the same pie with all the CHR/Rhythmic stations.

No like San Francisco Country does not work in big cities like New York or San Francisco. I know in San Francisco more of the stations are aiming for the Hot/AC, AC pie along with sports.

Well If New York or San Francisco want a country station they would have to rely more on their submarkets to do so like San Jose's 95.3 KRTY FM.

 

[DavidEduardo]

What was WYNY's cume in the mid 1990s?

Irrelevant, as the ratings methodology was the diary.

In any case, the cume in the MSA was 582,000 in Spring of 1994 and 519,000 in Fall of that year per Duncan's American Radio at http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Duncan-American-Radio-Issue-Guide.htm

Those levels were down from a Spring of '92 level of 800,000. The format was obviously dying in '94 and that explains the change in format soon after.

 

[ansky212]

But more than that, it's an issue of the background of the metro today. There is over 40% between African Americans and Hispanics, groups that have minimal, if any, usage of country stations.

Assuming those numbers are correct, let's take that 40% and say 20% is Hispanic. So how does the market support 3 spanish language stations? On top of that, many Hispanics speak English as their first language, and some might not even know Spanish at all. Anybody that doesn't speak Spanish is not going to listen to any of the 3 spanish stations. How do they survive?

The thing with Country music is that it has evolved more than any other music genre out there over the last 5-10 years. Long gone are the days of the old honky tonk, wailing Garth Brooks or Billy Ray Cyrus. The format now is basically a blend of pop and rock. 5 years ago you wouldn't catch me tuned to a country station. Now it's basically the only format I listen to.

 

[TheBigA]

Those levels were down from a Spring of '92 level of 800,000. The format was obviously dying in '94 and that explains the change in format soon after.

The exact reason for the format change was an ownership change. The station was sold, became WKTU, went commercial free, and went from "worst to first." WKTU became the #1 radio station in the city.

 

[CTListener]

But more than that, it's an issue of the background of the metro today. There is over 40% between African Americans and Hispanics, groups that have minimal, if any, usage of country stations.

Assuming those numbers are correct, let's take that 40% and say 20% is Hispanic. So how does the market support 3 spanish language stations? On top of that, many Hispanics speak English as their first language, and some might not even know Spanish at all. Anybody that doesn't speak Spanish is not going to listen to any of the 3 spanish stations. How do they survive?

The thing with Country music is that it has evolved more than any other music genre out there over the last 5-10 years. Long gone are the days of the old honky tonk, wailing Garth Brooks or Billy Ray Cyrus. The format now is basically a blend of pop and rock. 5 years ago you wouldn't catch me tuned to a country station. Now it's basically the only format I listen to.

Exactly the reason I've stopped listening to country. I can get better pop and rock on pop and rock stations. Billy Ray Cyrus was beefcake with a slick promotional team and a marginal musical talent, so it's not him I miss. More like Merle Haggard, George Jones, Tammy Wynette. Of course, that kind of country never played well in New York -- and most of it didn't even make the playlist -- even when it had a country station.

 

[Barry]

But more than that, it's an issue of the background of the metro today. There is over 40% between African Americans and Hispanics, groups that have minimal, if any, usage of country stations.

Assuming those numbers are correct, let's take that 40% and say 20% is Hispanic. So how does the market support 3 spanish language stations? On top of that, many Hispanics speak English as their first language, and some might not even know Spanish at all. Anybody that doesn't speak Spanish is not going to listen to any of the 3 spanish stations. How do they survive?

The thing with Country music is that it has evolved more than any other music genre out there over the last 5-10 years. Long gone are the days of the old honky tonk, wailing Garth Brooks or Billy Ray Cyrus. The format now is basically a blend of pop and rock. 5 years ago you wouldn't catch me tuned to a country station. Now it's basically the only format I listen to.

Exactly the reason I've stopped listening to country. I can get better pop and rock on pop and rock stations. Billy Ray Cyrus was beefcake with a slick promotional team and a marginal musical talent, so it's not him I miss. More like Merle Haggard, George Jones, Tammy Wynette. Of course, that kind of country never played well in New York -- and most of it didn't even make the playlist -- even when it had a country station.

Fortunately, there is still some traditional style country music that makes it to the charts, and mainstream country stations. Current examples could include Cowboys and Angels by Dustin Lynch, Why Ya Wanna by Jana Kramer, and I Like Girls That Drink Beer, by Toby Keith.

 

[kevinsealy]

Some other questions, could we see, (or better expression) hear WCBS-FM increase the rotation of 50s and early 60s music. and the return of a Pop Standards station.

I truthfully believe there's a profitable audience out there for a Country and Standards audience. The problem is Madison Avenue doesn't beleive it.



Thanks,
Kevin L. Sealy