Classic TV shows being regurgitated

[LKellerIII]

10 or more Westerns is right-14 in 1957-58 and 20 in 58-59 with 27 in 59-60..down to 6 by my count in 1964-65..

As that shows, Westerns had pretty much begun burning themselves out 50 years ago, so is it really a surprise we don't have them now?

To do one today, you'd have to find someplace new to go with the genre. And "Deadwood"'s been done.

On the other hand - police and detective shows seem to go on forever. I remember in the 70s, there were so many cop shows that comedia,ns made jokes about "the blind detective, the fat detective, and the old detective" (Longstreet, Cannon and Barnaby Jones). Critics predicted cop show burn out by viewers.

But here we are almost 40 years later and half the shows on TV are police procedurals.

Medical shows are another genre that waxes and wanes, but never goes away entirely.

Some genres just get outdated. Variety shows are another example.

 

[michael hagerty]

10 or more Westerns is right-14 in 1957-58 and 20 in 58-59 with 27 in 59-60..down to 6 by my count in 1964-65..

As that shows, Westerns had pretty much begun burning themselves out 50 years ago, so is it really a surprise we don't have them now?

To do one today, you'd have to find someplace new to go with the genre. And "Deadwood"'s been done.

On the other hand - police and detective shows seem to go on forever. I remember in the 70s, there were so many cop shows that comedia,ns made jokes about "the blind detective, the fat detective, and the old detective" (Longstreet, Cannon and Barnaby Jones). Critics predicted cop show burn out by viewers.

But here we are almost 40 years later and half the shows on TV are police procedurals.

Medical shows are another genre that waxes and wanes, but never goes away entirely.

Some genres just get outdated. Variety shows are another example.

We still have cops.

We still have doctors.

We don't have cowboys, at least not in the Western movie & TV sense of the term. Didn't in the 50s and 60s, either, but there was a greater tolerance of (and fondness for) period stuff. The Old West was viewed as relatively recent history for Americans (the gunfight at the O.K. Corral was only 68 years before Hopalong Cassidy signed on as the first TV Western..about the same distance back as the end of World War II is today).

Variety shows fell victim to the same thing that doomed broad-based mass-appeal radio when format fragmentation came along. If I want to see Paul McCartney, why should I have to sit through Myron Cohen, Kate Smith and Topo Gigio?

 

[johnbasalla]

Here are some strange regurgitations:
"The Night Stalker". Darrin McGavin starred in the original that started with two well done TV movies, and then as a one season failed series. Poor scripts and too much comic relief doomed the series (imo). They re-did it anyway several years ago, and it didn't even last a full season.

The syndicated "Dusty's Trail" was basically "Gilligan's Island" out west. Both starred Bob Denver.

 

[FredLeonard]

The only "reboot" that seen any real success is "Hawaii 5-0".

As long as one has been successful, others will keep trying. Also giving hope to TV re-booters: All the movie re-boots that do well.

Almost all Westerns were cop shows. The central character was a sheriff, marshal or "good citizen" hero who helped sheriffs and marshals. Plots almost always revolved around some crime and figuring out and/or catching whodunit. Like Star Trek set 20th century stories in the future, Westerns set them in the past. In the 50s, the movie studios still had big "ranches" in the San Fernando and Simi Valleys where Westerns could be shot cheaply. Mostly those were sold off to real estate developers and production of Westerns required going someplace remote (like Old Tucson), which increased production costs. At the same time, it became more practical to shoot outdoor scenes on the street, which gave an economic advantage to dramas set in the present day.

 

[dmargalotti]

There was a failed reboot of Kojak a few years ago with Ving Rhames in the role made famous by Telly Savalas.

 

[michael hagerty]

Hawaii Five-O succeeds (to the degree it does) because it doesn't attempt to bring back the main character. McGarrett is a descendant, not the same guy dropped into our world. And the rest of the show speaks in a language, both verbal and visual, that's 2013. It's really NCIS: Honolulu without the military connection.

If you take Kojak, Columbo, Rockford...those are what (some) 40-something guys were like 40 years ago. I can't think of a contemporary 40-year old man who's anything like those guys. It's like we changed planets.

 

[FredLeonard]

Hawaii Five-O succeeds (to the degree it does) because it doesn't attempt to bring back the main character. McGarrett is a descendant, not the same guy dropped into our world. And the rest of the show speaks in a language, both verbal and visual, that's 2013. It's really NCIS: Honolulu without the military connection.

If you take Kojak, Columbo, Rockford...those are what (some) 40-something guys were like 40 years ago. I can't think of a contemporary 40-year old man who's anything like those guys. It's like we changed planets.

No, not quite. It's more like Silver Age Superman (and other DC Justice League Superheroes) on Earth One and Golden Age Superman (and other DC Justice Society Superheroes) on Earth Two. A re-boot. Today's Steve McGarrett is the son of John McGarrett, an HPD cop and contemporaneous with Jack Lord's Steve McGarrett, and the grandson of Steve McGarrett, who was in the navy and died during Pearl Harbor.


Both the Hawaii Five-O re-boot and The New Price is Right worked because the producers were willing to make changes, not stick too closely with the original and because they changes they made (which is always risky) worked.

 

[michael hagerty]

Hawaii Five-O succeeds (to the degree it does) because it doesn't attempt to bring back the main character. McGarrett is a descendant, not the same guy dropped into our world. And the rest of the show speaks in a language, both verbal and visual, that's 2013. It's really NCIS: Honolulu without the military connection.

If you take Kojak, Columbo, Rockford...those are what (some) 40-something guys were like 40 years ago. I can't think of a contemporary 40-year old man who's anything like those guys. It's like we changed planets.

No, not quite. It's more like Silver Age Superman (and other DC Justice League Superheroes) on Earth One and Golden Age Superman (and other DC Justice Society Superheroes) on Earth Two. A re-boot. Today's Steve McGarrett is the son of John McGarrett, an HPD cop and contemporaneous with Jack Lord's Steve McGarrett, and the grandson of Steve McGarrett, who was in the navy and died during Pearl Harbor.


Both the Hawaii Five-O re-boot and The New Price is Right worked because the producers were willing to make changes, not stick too closely with the original and because they changes they made (which is always risky) worked.

Okay, I get that analogy.

My larger point is (in agreement with yours) that reboots do have to make significant breaks from the originals, certainly when the originals are from 30 or 40 years back. Not only do styles, devices and societal norms change, but so have we, in response to all that. Sometimes to the point that you simply can't do the original character justice.

An example was the intended Rockford reboot a couple of years ago. What's the contemporary equivalent of a 40-something Los Angeles private detective who lives alone in a rusting single-wide in a parking lot, drinking beer out of the can and eating Oreos from the inside out, wears bad spirt coats, drives this year's Firebird, has a con man and an unconventionally attractive defense lawyer as his closest friends, plus a police sergeant who'll get him out of scrapes...usually gets stiffed on his fee, yet doesn't come off pathetic?

Not only isn't there a 2013 equivalent of that guy, there isn't a Jim Garner to play him.

 

[FredLeonard]

Okay, I get that analogy.

My larger point is (in agreement with yours) that reboots do have to make significant breaks from the originals, certainly when the originals are from 30 or 40 years back. Not only do styles, devices and societal norms change, but so have we, in response to all that. Sometimes to the point that you simply can't do the original character justice.

An example was the intended Rockford reboot a couple of years ago. What's the contemporary equivalent of a 40-something Los Angeles private detective who lives alone in a rusting single-wide in a parking lot, drinking beer out of the can and eating Oreos from the inside out, wears bad spirt coats, drives this year's Firebird, has a con man and an unconventionally attractive defense lawyer as his closest friends, plus a police sergeant who'll get him out of scrapes...usually gets stiffed on his fee, yet doesn't come off pathetic?

Not only isn't there a 2013 equivalent of that guy, there isn't a Jim Garner to play him.

True. Nobody to play Maverick either - especially not Mel Gibson.

Even while making changes they have to respect the original and show some grasp of what made a concept work. The Star Trek re-boot did that. Various attempts to re-do the Lone Ranger never did. Too many producers and writers assume they are smarter than original creators and have to fix things.

And things change. It's hard to sell Dragnet today, with cops who are complete straight arrows and examples of perfect rectitude, when we know how brutal and corrupt the LAPD is. Vick Mackey is believable. Joe Friday no longer is.

Shows succeed on premise and character. Lots of shows have recycled premises but with new characters and situations. To do a re-boot, you have make a known character work - again. That's tougher than it looks. Also today's audiences won't accept the Jack Lord-William Shatner-James Arness type of leading man.

 

[Braves2005]

Hopefully with the new "Ironside" they could have the next generation of the original cast (the sons and daughters of the characters of the original show) on the show. I could have even pictured Blair Underwood as the son of Marc Sanger (played by Don Mitchell on the original) but who could have played "Ironside" then? I don't see very many people who could play Ironside either and I don't think Underwood is a heavy set person as Raymond Burr was.

But what I don't hope for is someone trying to revive other shows that were popular years ago like Matlock, The Partridge Family, Perry Mason, Gunsmoke, The Brady Bunch, etc. because I don't think that they would work today as times were very different back then as they are now.

 

[landtuna]

Also today's audiences won't accept the Jack Lord-William Shatner-James Arness type of leading man.

"Book 'em, Jim!"

"He's dead, Danno!"

"Take off that dress Festus!"

 

[michael hagerty]

Raymond Burr's weight is irrelevant. Ironside was in the wheelchair because he'd been paralyzed after being shot.

 

[LKellerIII]

Raymond Burr's weight is irrelevant. Ironside was in the wheelchair because he'd been paralyzed after being shot.

If I recall correctly, Raymond Burr was in a wheelchair or was always filmed sitting - during the last few Perry Mason TV movies - he had some serious health problems in his later years. But that was a long time afterIronside. As far as I know, he was fully ambulatory during the years Ironside was filmed.

I can't see the point in bringing this show back - the concept was not that compelling, and the original show wasn't very good, IMO. These days, the disabled are much more visible (due to ADA), and work in many fields. Though you certainly can't find any paraplegic street cops, I'd bet you could probably find disabled investigators in a few police departments around the country.

 

[landtuna]

Raymond Burr's weight is irrelevant. Ironside was in the wheelchair because he'd been paralyzed after being shot.

If I recall correctly, Raymond Burr was in a wheelchair or was always filmed sitting - during the last few Perry Mason TV movies - he had some serious health problems in his later years. But that was a long time afterIronside. As far as I know, he was fully ambulatory during the years Ironside was filmed.

Burr only agreed to do the show if he could be "disabled" as standing for extended periods of time was very painful for him. His weight was one problem but was probably the result of his greatly reduced exercise. I don't think the original concept had the lead character as a disabled person.

 

[michael hagerty]

Raymond Burr's weight is irrelevant. Ironside was in the wheelchair because he'd been paralyzed after being shot.

If I recall correctly, Raymond Burr was in a wheelchair or was always filmed sitting - during the last few Perry Mason TV movies - he had some serious health problems in his later years. But that was a long time afterIronside. As far as I know, he was fully ambulatory during the years Ironside was filmed.

Burr only agreed to do the show if he could be "disabled" as standing for extended periods of time was very painful for him. His weight was one problem but was probably the result of his greatly reduced exercise. I don't think the original concept had the lead character as a disabled person.

The entire point of Ironside was that the character had been paralyzed from the waist down by a shooting.

Everything Burr did after Ironside, he stood and walked, including the 1980s Perry Mason TV movies. When they brought those back in 1993, his health had deteriorated and he used a wheelchair.

 

[rnigma1]

Raymond Burr had gone on a diet before he began the role of Perry Mason in 1957. If you look at the first season episodes, he is noticeably slimmer. He even ran in one episode. Of course, he would soon regain what weight he lost and then some.

 

[dmargalotti]

Not only isn't there a 2013 equivalent of that guy, there isn't a Jim Garner to play him

Ain't that the truth!

 

[FredLeonard]

The entire point of Ironside was that the character had been paralyzed from the waist down by a shooting.

Everything Burr did after Ironside, he stood and walked, including the 1980s Perry Mason TV movies. When they brought those back in 1993, his health had deteriorated and he used a wheelchair.

Burr was shown standing and walking in the pilot and in flashbacks. And, years later, he walked just fine in the Perry Mason TV movies.

But, I agree, the concept is not compelling. The show only worked because of Burr's personality. Otherwise it was a pretty standard Universal boiler plate production for the time.

As long as we are talking about "regurgitated," Law and Order was re-worked Arrest and Trial - only difference being that in A&T, after the cops arrested somebody in the first half, the defense attorney got him off in the second half. In L&O, half the time the prosecutors discover Lenny and Mikey (or whoever) got the wrong guy and the young DA has to get the right guy. No wonder the number two guy in the DA's office always has to keep grabbing Lenny and Mikey's cases.

 

[BD Sullivan]

Raymond Burr's weight is irrelevant. Ironside was in the wheelchair because he'd been paralyzed after being shot.

If I recall correctly, Raymond Burr was in a wheelchair or was always filmed sitting - during the last few Perry Mason TV movies - he had some serious health problems in his later years. But that was a long time afterIronside. As far as I know, he was fully ambulatory during the years Ironside was filmed.

Burr only agreed to do the show if he could be "disabled" as standing for extended periods of time was very painful for him. His weight was one problem but was probably the result of his greatly reduced exercise. I don't think the original concept had the lead character as a disabled person.

Burr had some health issues (reportedly cancer) during the sixth season of Perry Mason and had guest stars handle his cases while he made a perfunctory appearance in a scene--usually a phone call to Della Street as he lay in bed. This website gives ample detail on the show: http://www.perrymasontvshowbook.com/

 

[BD Sullivan]

The entire point of Ironside was that the character had been paralyzed from the waist down by a shooting.

Everything Burr did after Ironside, he stood and walked, including the 1980s Perry Mason TV movies. When they brought those back in 1993, his health had deteriorated and he used a wheelchair.

As long as we are talking about "regurgitated," Law and Order was re-worked Arrest and Trial - only difference being that in A&T, after the cops arrested somebody in the first half, the defense attorney got him off in the second half. In L&O, half the time the prosecutors discover Lenny and Mikey (or whoever) got the wrong guy and the young DA has to get the right guy. No wonder the number two guy in the DA's office always has to keep grabbing Lenny and Mikey's cases.

Not to mention that A & T was a TV rarity--a weekly 90-minute series. Here's some excellent background on the show: http://www.classictvhistory.com/EpisodeGuides/arrest_and_trial.html