Those from the Dominican Republic are actually Dominicanos. The ones from Dominica are Dominicans!
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Caribbean Music
- Thread starter BJSteigner
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Absolutely. When asked, I’m Puerto Rican. As the poem goes “Boricua hasta en la luna”. I just prefer Latino over Hispanic on forms or when being with other second or third generation of people whose name parents come from Latin America.
Latin America or Hispanoamerica both erase the indigenous roots and culture of the land as well as the population that is of African descent. There’s no happy medium. And the problem is that you just can’t define people into neat, little categories. Here are a few links that discusses how the term Hispanic came to be. One of the persons that served on the committee claims to have brokered the consensus to settle for Hispanic. Her grandfather was a Spaniard, she’s Mexican-American from Texas.
[President Nixon and the Hispanic Strategy
Until the recent obsession with skin colors and hyphenated categories, I never paid attention to the race or color of my friends. Perhaps it was because as someone of Irish and Celtic ascendance I was, for all of my adult life, a small minority.
But in recent years I have become aware that nearly all of my dearest friends would be considered "Black" or "Indigenous". I just thought of them as people I cared a lot for.
However, both of those are written 30 years after the term Hispanic was adopted, and fail to take into account that it was a collaboration of the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) and the Census who had the final say on all the alternative suggestions. But the analytic process was akin to what was covered in the articles, but the apparent obsession of one person about the connection with Spain is very personal and does not reflect anything I recall from any of the discussions we had in Puerto Rico where this was under the office of statistics of the budget and policy department of the Commonwealth.
The Spanish Caste system in Latin America consisted of over 40 different designations depending on the amount of Spanish, “Indian” and black blood an individual had. That legacy still lives on.
The Celtic genetic pool extends to Northern Spain. I type this as I look at the Celtic cross hanging in my kitchen. Just a coincidence.
There are many more articles on the subject. My experience has been that people with closer ties to Spain see themselves as Hispanic, but the majority are more akin to using Latino especially in the Southwest. Those that used Hispanic as a de facto term grew up hearing it in the media to describe them. There was a big push by SBS and Univision among other media in the 90’s to have Spanish speaking people identify as Hispanic on the census.
From Hispanic to Latine: Hispanic Heritage Month and the Terms That Bind Us | The New York Public Library
A brief and interesting history of the evolving language used to identify people with ancestry from Spanish speaking territories or from co…
www.nypl.org
The Invention of Hispanics - Latino USA
Before 1970, the US Census Bureau classified Mexican, Cuban and Puerto Rican immigrants as whites. Each community of Latin American...
www.latinousa.org
I just read that there was a question on the census asking if the respondent was from Central America and it was removed after many people in the Central Time zone answered yes 🤷🏻♂️😂.
It is pretty much gone now everywhere I have lived and worked... including Mexico, Ecuador, Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic and Argentina along with consulting work in all the other Spanish language nations except Cuba and Nicaragua.
I was taught that stuff in my High School, the Colegio Americano, in Quito. But it was dealt with as a study of cultural anthropology as none of the terms and designations were in use any more... and that was 60 years ago!
Yes, my genetic study shows ancestry going back to the Celtic migration to Southwest Ireland and originating in Galicia in Spain.
With more of my family being in or from Puerto Rico, there is, among some who are educated in history, a link to the Canary Islands. The Puerto Rican accent and some of its vocabulary are very directly related to there.
But there are no travel companies doing heritage tours to the Canarias and Spanish heritage is not something I ever heard mentioned "with intensity" in my nearly 40 years of either living or working there in the media.
But that was not based on preference for the term. It was based on "don't forget to say "yes" on the question about being Hispanic. The purpose was to make sure all Hispanics were counted for the purpose of market information that favored them revenue-wise.
I was with Hispanic Broadcasting as VP at the time of the 2000 census, and specifically in charge of research as well as the news/talk/sports stations. We did not do any census promotion other than encouraging compliance by saying "if everyone is counted, we'll make sure our community is better served by government" or words to that effect. We never talked about whether to answer the "Hispanic" question.
Although the wording has significantly changed since the first 1980 U.S.Census that measured Hispanics, it has always been one that was a "Yes/No" question that asked, "Are you Hispanic, Latino, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Mexican or other Latin American?" in some form or another. Most recently it had a listing of all the major national origin/heritage countries along with "Other". It also has had terms like "Chicano" included for subgroups that have historical heritage from the U.S. Southwest.
Sidebar: In 1980 and 1990, I was interviewed at home by a Census taker in Puerto Rico. They knocked on the door, and I responded, "¿Quién es?" and they responded "Agente del Censo de la población" or something like that. In both cases, they did not ask the "Hispanic question". Because I had been involved in the origins of the "Hispanic" term and in population studies in general, at the end I asked, "why did you not ask me if I was Hispanic?" (whole interview as in Spanish, of course). In both cases, the agents said that if a person responded to to the door in Spanish, they were automatically listed as "Hispanic" on the form. The question was not asked, it was observed.
I never heard that one, and it is both amusing and credible.
But I never saw "Central America" listed as a choice. Always specific nations for the most usual ones, and then "other" for a fill-in of ones not listed, like Uruguay and Paraguay and even Chile and Argentina.
Sidebar and anecdote: In the 2000 census, I had two residences and had already filled in and returned the form at one of them. At the other, a Census Bureau "employee" came knocking. Said I had already filled in the form at my other residence. The person did not quite get that I might have two homes, and said that I had to fill in the questionnaire. I said "I already did". I was then told that if I did not fill it in, he might have to call "La Migra" (INS at that time) and report me as "undocumented".
I assumed that he was under pressure to get full compliance, and calling the INS had worked for him to get response so he used it on me. Most of the surveyors were temporary employees, so they simply wanted to do the job and get paid, but threatening with the "Migra" was a terrible thing to do. I had discussions about it with the media representative of the Census Bureau as I was at the time programming LA's Spanish language talk station and wanted to see if there was a story there!
I hope that guy got in trouble for threatening you!
Nah, those were temp employees and long gone by the time I reported the incident.
The Caste system impeded people with “mixed blood” to own land or accumulate wealth. Centuries of that practice don’t just correct itself overnight. How many people in the government or the “upper class” of any of the countries you mentioned are of indigenous or African descent?
Yes, and ad campaigns ran on radio and tv with celebrities asking to say yes.The term Hispanic gained popularity. Similar to what is happening with Latinx today. Although, the latter is mostly driven by social media.
And it’s just not the Southwest that has historical heritage that is “Hispanic”. St. Augustine is the oldest European settlement in the United States built by the Spaniards. Cowboy Culture was brought here by the Spaniards as well. Florida, Colorado, Montana, Nevada and Arizona are all Spanish words. Of course, there were societies of native people already there before the Spaniards dropped in.
That’s a determination the agents shouldn’t be making. Perhaps, it was a compliment on your fluency speaking Spanish and the agent thought you were from the archipelago.
In Ecuador and Mexico, few can say that they don't have some amount of indigenous heritage. When I was working in those countries, nearly everyone would appear to have some native American heritage.
We covered ancient social restrictions in High School in Quito, but not as a living system. I forget the names all the classes were called in the 1700's... and I forgot them because nobody used them in the 60's when I was in school there.
In Argentina, there is little African or Indigenous heritage in most of the nation. 40% have direct Italian heritage, and then there are Germans, Russian, French, British and Spanish heritage elements.
In the Dominican Republic I doubt I met anyone of any importance who was not all or partly Black
In Puerto Rico, there is a saying, "Y tu abuela, ¿dónde está? That means "And where is your grandmother" which is a way of saying "we all have some Afro-Caribbean blood".
Except among some non-Spanish speaking politicians, I've not found anyone who "likes" the term "Hispanic". Many accept it, but see it as a gringo label that they don't identify with.
In a survey done by a major Hispanic media organization, among Spanish dominant Hispanics there was statistically 0% who used or liked "Latinx". Among English dominant but Spanish speaking persons, it was a low single digit. A follow-up found that essentially the only people who liked "Latinx" were mostly Northeaster white liberals with college educations.
But the term "Hispanic" in English was dragged out of obscurity in the 70's to satisfy the OMB and Census Bureau. Those territories you name were Colonias Españolas and never called "Hispanic" historically. And if you go to Latin America you still will find educated people asking what "Hispanic" means ans why was it adopted. It is a bit more understood today, but back 20 years or so nobody in Latin America used or liked it and considered it another of the "gringo labels" I referred to before.
Not likely. I had a neighbor who is whiter than I am and is Puerto Rican going back to the 1800's at least... he is so white his nickname is "El Gringo". Strangely, I had a classmate in Quito with the same nickname for the same reason; his family had published the largest newspaper there for well over 100 years!
In Puerto Rico, except for the representative for Julio Iglesias' first record label, I did not know anyone born in Spain who lived there permanently. In fact, in Ecuador the only Spaniard I knew had been brought in as chef of a Spanish restaurant, and later stayed and opened his own... one of my favorites, too.
And again, how many are in the “upper class” or in the government? You and I know they’re the ones with the least opportunity to put it nicely and the source of the migration to the U.S. Both countries are notorious for the marginalized indigenous populations that have not been Hispanicized.
David Eduardo:
In Puerto Rico, there is a saying, "Y tu abuela, ¿dónde está? That means "And where is your grandmother" which is a way of saying "we all have some Afro-Caribbean blood".
Indeed. We learned that in elementary school. Yet, there’s very few in positions of power or in the government. Sort of like we all learned about George Washington and his Cherry Tree and “I’m not going to tell a lie” which has been proven to be a myth. Those saying works great for the psyche of nation building.
Aren’t their descendants of Spanish origin? That fits the Census Bureau’s definition of Hispanic. Ken Salazar, the former senator from Colorado traces his roots to that time frame.
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One thing is the 100% "pure" (I have to use disturbing words that I don't like, but the topic demands it) indigenous population of some areas of deep southern Mexico, much of Guatemala, Andean Ecuador, Perú and Bolivia which was isolated to the rural farming economy until things started changing in the 1950's and 1960's.
Heck, my labor attorney in Ecuador was Dr. Segundo Maiguashca and he was 100% indigenous. I did not know many people who were not of at least some of that heritage, even at the highest levels.
This is a video of an anniversary party celebrating the founding of my first station in Quito in 1954. Please find one Spaniard there...
The lady in the silver jacket is my ex-wife. She is 100% indigenous.
Actually, I'd say nearly every person in positions of influence in government and business and the professions has some bit of non-Spanish blood.
The nations with limited indigenous populations or where that group died off due to changed diets, overwork and disease have less indigenous blood. Argentina, Uruguay, Chile and even Paraguay are like that... much more European.
And Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic and Cuba lost most indigenous populations to European disease, and but became influenced by the slave trade and the need for labor to harvest sugar and other produce. So you have many if not most in those three who have at least a touch of that influence.
And so Benito Juárez, a president of Mexico, was not indigenous? AMLO is not at least a significant part indigenous? Nearly everyone of importance in Mexico that I am familiar with is part of the Mexican "raza" which originated when the Conquistadores, almost 100% men, married or "took up with" indigenous women and created families that were "half an half" European and Indigenous.
The same thing happened in almost all of Latin America where there had been large indigenous populations.
In fact, the movement towards Venezuelan independence and the creation of the Gran Colombia (now Ecuador, Colombia and Venezuela) was based not on "pure" Spaniards but the criollos who were the local people with varied degrees of Spanish and native blood. One of the first things they wanted was to send the Spaniards back to Spain... or worse.
The term "Hispanic" has to do with people whose heritage is from nations or regions where Spanish is the principle language. A key element in the creation of "Hispanic" as a Census category was to separate the U.S. population of that category from those coming from nations where the official or main language is Portuguese, French, Kreyole, Papiamento, etc.
But Haiti is Kreyol speaking while the Dominican Republic is Spanish speaking. There is merengue from Haiti, but it is not the same as Dominican music and Dominicans don't listen to it.
That is absolutely, totally, completely unacceptable. Horrible.
I used to work for the Census Bureau. In my training, they emphasized that the Census counts residents of the local area, to determine how many people live in a certain area. They count RESIDENTS, not citizens. The Census has nothing to do with determining citizenship. They are counting residents, who are taxpayers, because they pay property taxes, sales taxes, employment taxes, etc.
If I am a crew chief of that team of enumerators, and I hear that one of my people is threatening to call "La Migra", then he is immediately off the team. He is only an enumerator, and he is way to full of himself and too full of bigotry. His behavior is completely unacceptable.
A respondent with multiple homes will fill out the Census form for the home designated as his primary residence. If you already filled out a form at your primary residence, then the enumerator cannot ask you to do that again. I am so sorry that happened to you. -- Daryl
Let me just add a couple more things about the Census. ( Apologies for being off-topic, but this is appropriate to the discussion). Enumerators are now trained to NEVER assume anything about the respondents. Wait politely for the respondents to provide the information. For example, if you approach someone's front door and hear a Spanish-speaking station playing on the radio, or if someone replies "Quien es"? never assume it is a Hispanic household. Wait for the respondents to TELL you how they describe themselves.
It's true that the Census contains the question of whether or not the respondent considers himself/herself of Hispanic origin. But, the Census does not allow the term "Hispanic" to be used as a race. When the enumerator asks, "What race do you consider yourself to be? ", the answer cannot be Hispanic, because Hispanic people come in all colors. So, the enumerator will ask for another descriptive word. In California, many Spanish-speaking people will answer "Mexican-American", or "Chicano" or "Latino" or give the nation of their birth, such as "Puerto Riqueno" "Colombiano", "Panamanian", etc.
When I worked as an enumerator, I one time was interviewing a lady who became upset about the race question and said sharply, "What do you mean what race I describe myself as? Isn't it very obvious that I am white?" I had to reply, "Yes ma'am, I can see that you are white, but I cannot write that down as my opinion. I have to ask how YOU identify yourself." She was an older person, miffed that I might think that she was of mixed race, so I had to explain that the Census wanted to know how SHE identified, not what my opinion was.
-- Daryl
It's true that the Census contains the question of whether or not the respondent considers himself/herself of Hispanic origin. But, the Census does not allow the term "Hispanic" to be used as a race. When the enumerator asks, "What race do you consider yourself to be? ", the answer cannot be Hispanic, because Hispanic people come in all colors. So, the enumerator will ask for another descriptive word. In California, many Spanish-speaking people will answer "Mexican-American", or "Chicano" or "Latino" or give the nation of their birth, such as "Puerto Riqueno" "Colombiano", "Panamanian", etc.
When I worked as an enumerator, I one time was interviewing a lady who became upset about the race question and said sharply, "What do you mean what race I describe myself as? Isn't it very obvious that I am white?" I had to reply, "Yes ma'am, I can see that you are white, but I cannot write that down as my opinion. I have to ask how YOU identify yourself." She was an older person, miffed that I might think that she was of mixed race, so I had to explain that the Census wanted to know how SHE identified, not what my opinion was.
-- Daryl
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Daryl, your story reminds me of an experience I had on my first newspaper job, in rural Arkansas. I was the paper's one-man sports department, but as was the case at all small papers, my workload usually included a couple of general-assignment feature stories (and occasional meetings, when reporters were on vacation) every week. One day, the managing editor came over to my desk and told me to do a story on a local woman working as an enumerator for the 1980 Census. I found the interview fascinating but confusing, as I'd never really thought about the Census before and everything she was telling me was brand new to me. She patiently answered my many follow-up questions, noting several times that she was somewhat nervous about being interviewed at all, for fear of having something appear in the paper that might get her in trouble. Well, wouldn't you know I screwed up!
She mentioned that she had been working in a very poor area of the county, primarily Black, and had visited a man living in a falling-down shack that she couldn't believe was fit for habitation. That observation, it turned out, was in no way part of the data she turned in on this particular county resident, but the way I wrote the story made it appear as if it was. I got a very angry phone call from that enumerator the next day and had to write a detailed clarification that she practically dictated to me. Lesson learned; I was out of my depth on that assignment and should have made sure everything I was scribbling down in my notebook was 100 percent accurate. Fortunately, no harm was done and she went on to complete her 1980 Census work.
She mentioned that she had been working in a very poor area of the county, primarily Black, and had visited a man living in a falling-down shack that she couldn't believe was fit for habitation. That observation, it turned out, was in no way part of the data she turned in on this particular county resident, but the way I wrote the story made it appear as if it was. I got a very angry phone call from that enumerator the next day and had to write a detailed clarification that she practically dictated to me. Lesson learned; I was out of my depth on that assignment and should have made sure everything I was scribbling down in my notebook was 100 percent accurate. Fortunately, no harm was done and she went on to complete her 1980 Census work.
You're an excellent writer, and I'm sure that your article on the Census taker was both informative and enthralling to read ! Most people have no idea what an enumerator does. That's unfortunate that she was angry with you, and she certainly could have communicated much more politely. Census employees are sworn in as officers of the peace; and as such, they take an oath of confidentiality. They are required not to divulge the information that they gather; and they are required to write down facts, not opinions.
Enumerators are required to wear an I.D. badge with their photo and "U.S. Census Bureau" on it, as well as carry a briefcase/bag marked in large letters "U.S. Census Bureau," which holds all their forms and materials. One warm afternoon, I walked up on a porch that had an open front door, with the screen door closed. I rang the bell, and a teenager appeared at the screen door. I held up my badge and the briefcase with the large markings, and said, "Hello, I'm here on behalf of ----- " when the teenager suddenly yelled into another room, "MOM ! The F.B.I. is here! What should I do?" From the back of the house came an equally loud yell, "Tell them we didn't do it!" I said in my friendliest voice, "No, no, not the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The CENSUS Bureau." ( That happened to me several times over the years).
- Daryl
I'm reminded of a sports column from over 30 years ago. A blind couple from Staten Island (NYC's Richmond County) listened to Mets radio games. Neither cared about ethnicity, ancestry, labels. The wife had a casual curiosity deciding how to 'picture' Keith Hernandez, whose father was from Spain and his mom of Scots-Irish. Since the PBP announcers often referred to him as 'Mex' and that he was Californoa, the Staten Island gal thought he was from Mexico. But never heard him speak.
Similarly, the couple didn't know, or especially care, if the fellow lefty Mets hitter Darryl Strawberry was Black or White or half-and-half.
Lol -- the couple would have been thoroughly confused if they ever heard the wild accent from a San Diego native ballplayer -- with the name of Tony Gwynn.
Must be some form of poignant blessing to be literally color-blind.
Terrific column that was to read. No pun intended here: A symbolic eye-opener.
Ha David. There's no usable, uh, Spanish spoken or understood here. Both parents spoke only the dialect of the old country (Brooklyn). But one evening when I went to pick up my date at a Puerto Rican girl's house, her brother answered the door. I *did" manage to hear one thing he called to her. 'Gringo.'
Similarly, the couple didn't know, or especially care, if the fellow lefty Mets hitter Darryl Strawberry was Black or White or half-and-half.
Lol -- the couple would have been thoroughly confused if they ever heard the wild accent from a San Diego native ballplayer -- with the name of Tony Gwynn.
Must be some form of poignant blessing to be literally color-blind.
Terrific column that was to read. No pun intended here: A symbolic eye-opener.
Ha David. There's no usable, uh, Spanish spoken or understood here. Both parents spoke only the dialect of the old country (Brooklyn). But one evening when I went to pick up my date at a Puerto Rican girl's house, her brother answered the door. I *did" manage to hear one thing he called to her. 'Gringo.'
The new Caribstar Radio is apparently being operated by some of the same people that were involved with the former WVIP 93.5 FM. They are leasing around 10 hours a day on Long Island station WGBB 1240 AM (which is also on a translator on 95.9 FM).
In keeping with the times, they are emphasizing their online stream, their app, and the fact that it is also being streamed by IHeartRadio. The AM station is barely mentioned. The Caribstar programming apparently replaces the Chinese broadcaster that had been carried on WGBB.
As with the former WVIP FM, CaribStar's programming emphasizes reggae music, and doings from Jamaica.
As WGBB has a mediocre signal, I wonder whether there is a significant Jamaican population on Long Island.
CaribStar Radio
In keeping with the times, they are emphasizing their online stream, their app, and the fact that it is also being streamed by IHeartRadio. The AM station is barely mentioned. The Caribstar programming apparently replaces the Chinese broadcaster that had been carried on WGBB.
As with the former WVIP FM, CaribStar's programming emphasizes reggae music, and doings from Jamaica.
As WGBB has a mediocre signal, I wonder whether there is a significant Jamaican population on Long Island.
CaribStar Radio
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Well, in a certain neighborhhood in Queens named "Jamaica", I suppose.
(Sorry, couldn't resist!)