Can "processing" bring AM radio back from the dead?

[brettbutlerisok]

I understand.

My last paragraph was more reference to the Cascadia Quake, as opposed to EMP. If the Cascadia Quake hits, AM stations east of the Cascades, and further south in California and Nevada (and in Alberta, Canada) would probably be less affected than those along the I-5 corridor and west of it, and their signals would be audible at night (and some of them possibly during the day) in quake-affected areas on car radios and portables. And certainly those stations would carry news and other information, especially being that many AM stations like KSL, KGO, CBR, KBND, KFBK, etc are mostly news-talk stations.

I know some local and regional stations carried news and information during the blow-up of Mt St Helens.

If EMP happened, I have no idea how broadcasting would operate.

Don't forget KMJ! I wonder, of all of the west coast stations that would likely survive a Cascadia Quake which one will reach the most people? Which one is most likely to survive? KFBK might be fine, but has poor dial position. KSL for sure on the skywave, but KMJ will serve the coastal rubble like a local in the daytime, with 560 San Francisco, 540 Monterey, and 570 Los Angeles gone. 5kw KUZZ 550 Bakersfield would probably suprise too. Can't beat the low dial position.

As far as saving the AM band? AM stereo and better processing would work, in 1975. Every AM radio I own made after 1975 sounds like crap. It's too late. The patient is terminal.

That doesn't mean you can't enjoy a ballgame with it. KOA, KNBR, perhaps your own local affiliate. It would like that.

Don't forget to visit your old dying AM radio.

My Zenith Allegro sounds awesome.

 

[stewie]

As far as saving the AM band? AM stereo and better processing would work, in 1975.

I honestly wonder if "they" had settled on AM stereo in 1975, if AM would be any healthier...

 

[TheBigA]

I honestly wonder if "they" had settled on AM stereo in 1975, if AM would be any healthier...

It didn't solve many of the other issues that AM had. FM did.

 

[DavidEduardo]

I honestly wonder if "they" had settled on AM stereo in 1975, if AM would be any healthier...

The AM stereo systems that were sent to the FCC were not even proposed until 1977, so the 1975 date is off by several years.

However, even in 1977 AM still had half the listening, so it could have made a difference.

 

[semoochie]

Don't forget KMJ! I wonder, of all of the west coast stations that would likely survive a Cascadia Quake which one will reach the most people? Which one is most likely to survive? KFBK might be fine, but has poor dial position. KSL for sure on the skywave, but KMJ will serve the coastal rubble like a local in the daytime, with 560 San Francisco, 540 Monterey, and 570 Los Angeles gone. 5kw KUZZ 550 Bakersfield would probably suprise too. Can't beat the low dial position.

As far as saving the AM band? AM stereo and better processing would work, in 1975. Every AM radio I own made after 1975 sounds like crap. It's too late. The patient is terminal.

That doesn't mean you can't enjoy a ballgame with it. KOA, KNBR, perhaps your own local affiliate. It would like that.

Don't forget to visit your old dying AM radio.

My Zenith Allegro sounds awesome.

It's hard to tell if you're aware of this but KMJ is now 50KW directional. It looks like San Francisco south to about Santa Maria is fine but LA seems a little far away.

 

[boombox4]

RE: KMJ vs. KFBK, etc.

I've never heard KMJ more than a handful of times -- there are other stations, including one in Idaho, that compete with it up here. And I'm in the Cascadia earthquake zone, near the Seattle metro.

KFBK booms in up here, even on a half decent Walkman. That's why I put it on that short list.

 

[xmtrland]

I find it interesting how some AM threads turn to emergency service and how an AM might be able to help in an emergency situation. For the Puget sound it's EMP/Nuke and earthquake/Valcano. Curious if any one on this thread is actually responsible for keeping an AM on the air in the event of an actual emergency.

Have you had to think about what you would do if asked to go to a shelter at an AM facility? I have, It's not fun thinking about it. It might be interesting to talk about it on a message board. It sucks to actually have to form a plan in your head "What do I do" for EMP/Nuke and Earthquake/Valcano.

That's where my thinking goes when AM threads turn to disaster information and talk of Western Washington having a catastrophic disaster.

I don't have the luxury of accepting that I'm just going to be dead or can't do anything and rely on KSL or KFBK for the getting information into Western Washington. In this thread it's assumed that I'm dead and the five 50KW stations I help out are not operational, lovely.

 

[TheBigA]

I find it interesting how some AM threads turn to emergency service and how an AM might be able to help in an emergency situation.

Sure but I think that's more likely to be part of a state-owned system rather than commercial enterprise. A number of state departments of transportation own AM stations and provide pre-recorded traffic information. Some airports own AM stations and provide flight delays and other information. So it's possible that if AM ceases to be a profitable business, that more states will buy AMs. However, the federal DHS is prohibited from owning domestic radio frequencies.

 

[DavidEduardo]

RE: KMJ vs. KFBK, etc.

I've never heard KMJ more than a handful of times -- there are other stations, including one in Idaho, that compete with it up here. And I'm in the Cascadia earthquake zone, near the Seattle metro.

KFBK booms in up here, even on a half decent Walkman. That's why I put it on that short list.

At night, the higher frequencies will do a much better job of covering a disaster area. KFBK with its superior antenna system will be able to put a monster signal out in the case that closer-by stations are silenced. And, of course, were it the "best" surviving AM, it might be allowed to go to non-directional operation at night.

 

[jammerdave]

Man... I hope there is never an EMP/nuke... I am the transmitter guy for KFBK & 6 other stations. At one time, the site was hardened against such things. There is also a now defunct and sealed bomb shelter there that had studios inside. These days, we'd be doomed if an EMP came along down here. *everything* is solid state. I do have an old ampliphase rig that might survive, but even it has a solid state exciter. At least all of it is in a very heavy steel cabinet. Power? I have two different grids feeding the site, plus a generator. I wonder about the generator controller also. Would it survive? I dunno.

Dave

I find it interesting how some AM threads turn to emergency service and how an AM might be able to help in an emergency situation. For the Puget sound it's EMP/Nuke and earthquake/Valcano. Curious if any one on this thread is actually responsible for keeping an AM on the air in the event of an actual emergency.

Have you had to think about what you would do if asked to go to a shelter at an AM facility? I have, It's not fun thinking about it. It might be interesting to talk about it on a message board. It sucks to actually have to form a plan in your head "What do I do" for EMP/Nuke and Earthquake/Valcano.

That's where my thinking goes when AM threads turn to disaster information and talk of Western Washington having a catastrophic disaster.

I don't have the luxury of accepting that I'm just going to be dead or can't do anything and rely on KSL or KFBK for the getting information into Western Washington. In this thread it's assumed that I'm dead and the five 50KW stations I help out are not operational, lovely.

 

[stewie]

RE: KMJ vs. KFBK, etc.

I've never heard KMJ more than a handful of times -- there are other stations, including one in Idaho, that compete with it up here. And I'm in the Cascadia earthquake zone, near the Seattle metro.

KFBK booms in up here, even on a half decent Walkman. That's why I put it on that short list.

KFBK's nightime pattern focuses a lot of energy north/south so that doesn't surprise me. However, the coverage to the east is just meh.

 

[DavidEduardo]

KFBK's nightime pattern focuses a lot of energy north/south so that doesn't surprise me. However, the coverage to the east is just meh.

It protects WCKY.

 

[Kelly A]

Have you had to think about what you would do if asked to go to a shelter at an AM facility? I have, It's not fun thinking about it. It might be interesting to talk about it on a message board. It sucks to actually have to form a plan in your head "What do I do" for EMP/Nuke and Earthquake/Valcano.

That's where my thinking goes when AM threads turn to disaster information and talk of Western Washington having a catastrophic disaster.

I don't have the luxury of accepting that I'm just going to be dead or can't do anything and rely on KSL or KFBK for the getting information into Western Washington. In this thread it's assumed that I'm dead and the five 50KW stations I help out are not operational, lovely.

Being very familiar with where you live and work Steve, the unknown is whether you will even need to keep any of those AM stations on the air in the event of The Big One. Anymore, chances are most of the downtown Seattle studios will be knocked off line due to complete studio structural or STL/phone line failure. Depending on the epicenter, towers can be damaged or destroyed. If the studios are down, is management going to put people on a two hour Ferry ride to Vashon to go live from the transmitter site of a station that less and less people even know exists? 25 years ago sure, not sure that would be the case if it happened tomorrow.

As has been shown in Texas, citizens more than ever, now rely on phones and phone apps and (unfortunately) social media sites for news and information.

 

[TheBigA]

As has been shown in Texas, citizens more than ever, now rely on phones and phone apps and (unfortunately) social media sites for news and information.

Which can be a problem if cell service is down, and apparently that's been a problem in Texas.

 

[xmtrland]

I actually had some of that EMP protection short out and blow up the transformers on the power poll last summer.

I have some Bofang radio's and an RPU transmitter in the bomb shelter that could be used to relay from the local Vashon EOC or surounding EOC to any of the stations that survive on the Island that no longer have a connection to the main land. I may add a couple of un-assembled Ham antennas and more coax now that I'm thinking about it. I may also add a metal garbage can at the site in the middle of the Island with a couple of Bofangs in it.
I have two generators at one site, one is an old international that does not have solid state control so I wonder if it will start after an EMP. Hopefully I will never find out. In an actual earthquake I may be enjoying water front property.

Management af one station has already said they will not be bringing people to Vashon, unless I'm dead. They have several emergency senerios that depend on being able to link to the transmitter on Vashon via two way RPU. That's why I have a couple of receivers in the shelter. If I'm still alive after whatever happens then the stations don't need to bring some one out here. I know how to get my voice and rpu radio on the air. After a day I'm sure people will find the signals that are on the air.

Yes I wonder if after an EMP event, would I even have an operational transmitter since they are all solid state. There is one 10KW transmitter not hooked up at a site that might be pressed into service. Now I'm going down a rabbit hole I don't want to think about and hopefully will never have to go through. But I would like to think that I'm prepared for, because I have to be, because I'm part of several stations emergency plan.

I can't just take the attitude that AM is dead no one will listen and just enjoy my new water front property. If I'm still alive I still have to deal with the 4 corporate offices which are not is Washington state. I have satellite internet and solar power. If it's a non EMP event and the satellite does not get to out of whack I should have phone and internet service at my house.

Most emergency home kits are encourage to have a simple crank/generator powered radio (some will even charge a cell phone) that receive AM, FM and even the local weather station. On Vashon both the local hardware stores sell emergency kits, supplies and crank powered radios.

I think it would be irresponsible of any AM station operator to not attempt to return to the air during an emergency, because AM is dead and no one listens or that people only get information through their smartphone. In an emergency you throw all your assets to the fight. For broadcasters that would include AM radio. Will this be the case in 20 years, that's another rabbit hole to go down. I think a good question would be when is the tipping point that AM radio would be useless in an emergency. I don't think we are there yet. We may have reached it for music on AM, but not for disseminating information in an emergency.

 

[TheBigA]

I think a good question would be when is the tipping point that AM radio would be useless in an emergency. I don't think we are there yet. We may have reached it for music on AM, but not for disseminating information in an emergency.

That's really not up to broadcasters to decide. The rules say local emergency officials get to decide who stays and who goes. Last week, they told all radio station operators in Corpus Christi to evacuate. The iHeart stations there rebroadcast KRTH in Houston, and left town.

 

[Kelly A]

That's really not up to broadcasters to decide. The rules say local emergency officials get to decide who stays and who goes. Last week, they told all radio station operators in Corpus Christi to evacuate. The iHeart stations there rebroadcast KRTH in Houston, and left town.

Glad you mentioned that. Curious whether the local Ham's in the Houston/Galveston, Corpus Christie, areas were activated for communications in some form of EMComm (since they always talk about how prepared they are). I went to the ARRL website to see the headlines. The headline was surprising, but not really: In a nutshell, all the ARES/RACES Tramaholic hobbyist radio folks were told unless they had flat bottom boats to stand down and go home to be with their families.

 

[stewie]

That's really not up to broadcasters to decide. The rules say local emergency officials get to decide who stays and who goes. Last week, they told all radio station operators in Corpus Christi to evacuate. The iHeart stations there rebroadcast KRTH in Houston, and left town.

The CBS stations stayed on the air and have been doing an excellent job at providing a simulicast on all their stations.

In the evenings, they're simulcasting channel 2 TV.

 

[xmtrland]

Evacuations are great if you know a disaster is coming. Unfortunately Earthquakes don't give enough warning to evacuate. They are getting better warning systems but those are to allow you to shelter in place. The Seattle area does not really get storms that would require the evacuation of the city. Your more likely to see a community evacuated due to wet ground from a heavy rain, making a hill side unstable. An evacuation may take place after the Earthquake, which if any of the stations I work for have functioning transmitter sites would be relaying the evacuation information.

volcanoes do give you a heads up something is going on so an evacuation could be given for that. Sometimes several weeks notice.

Here is a link to what Winlink stations are up.
http://www.winlink.org/RMSChannels
Select the map, be sure “Pactor” is clicked, then use the arrow keys and the + key to zero in on Houston.

 

[boombox4]

I find it interesting how some AM threads turn to emergency service and how an AM might be able to help in an emergency situation. For the Puget sound it's EMP/Nuke and earthquake/Valcano. Curious if any one on this thread is actually responsible for keeping an AM on the air in the event of an actual emergency.

Have you had to think about what you would do if asked to go to a shelter at an AM facility? I have, It's not fun thinking about it. It might be interesting to talk about it on a message board. It sucks to actually have to form a plan in your head "What do I do" for EMP/Nuke and Earthquake/Valcano.

That's where my thinking goes when AM threads turn to disaster information and talk of Western Washington having a catastrophic disaster.

I don't have the luxury of accepting that I'm just going to be dead or can't do anything and rely on KSL or KFBK for the getting information into Western Washington. In this thread it's assumed that I'm dead and the five 50KW stations I help out are not operational, lovely.

Being that I am the one who brought up Cascadia in this thread, I want to reassure you I wasn't implying that you -- or other AM or broadcast engineers, airstaff, etc., would be dead. That was not my intention at all.

It's all about the infrastructure that people like you, me, and everybody living in this area would have to deal with after a 9.0 hits.

The electric power grid might be dead for a while. Some estimates say it could be up to a month without power -- even in the Puget Sound Region. There would be some bridges that would be down. The ports may or may not have some damage. These things can affect the operations of businesses, including broadcast businesses.

Then again, it's not like we haven't had earthquakes in the area before (I think the Nisqually one was 7.0 or something?), so maybe broadcast media in the Puget Sound area wouldn't be affected by a 9.0 off the coast. I don't recall any broadcast outages during the Nisqually quake.

Either way, I wasn't trying to imply that broadcast people would all be injured or dead. That wasn't what I was trying to say at all. I'm sorry if it came across that way.