I have a vendor friend that actually steered me away from the 9 on a project based on how it looked. On that particular project we went with a 8600 that we are happy with. Would I try a 9 somewhere? Absolutely yes. Would be as willing to do that at a transmitter site in the country? Probably not. Preception is reality in so many ways in broadcasting. I'm pretty sure construction techniques have cost some some sales on the 9. Cleaning up some of this probably would help ease the mind of some looking to buy it. It is VERY cool box, with that being said. I was able to play with a friend's demo. There is nothing like it that compares.
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Build quality Omnia .9
- Thread starter richard.vanderveen
- Start date
Arrakis stuck a 386 motherboard in a box and added several cards for their automation system. Was stable except when it wasn't.
I'm happy with the Inovonics David IV. It's not much over $2k, and works well. Nothing wrong with spending more money, but this small market operator needs to feed several small stations, and while there may be a difference between products, when is one worth 5-6 times more than another?
I'm happy with the Inovonics David IV. It's not much over $2k, and works well. Nothing wrong with spending more money, but this small market operator needs to feed several small stations, and while there may be a difference between products, when is one worth 5-6 times more than another?
satech said:
This was my point exactly. I think Leif was annoyed by my pointing-out the video cable adapter. I'm not worried about it not working or not sounding good. I think most on here would agree that Breakaway was one of the hottest products to happen to radio in years. But in the real world, $10k is a LOT of money and I expected to see a more polished product for that price point. If your competitors can custom build a box and hit that price point, how do you justify slapping one together with off-the-shelf parts and gluing them together?
My simple suggestion would be to remove the connectors and solder the cables to the boards.
Does it make a difference electrically... no.
Does it make a difference in the perceived quality of the product... as you can see by this thread... YES!
Ferraris are very expensive because they drive amazing and the look amazing. Your Ferrari doesn't look amazing.
Got to remember the 11 is the flagship for Omnia,not the 9.I feel Omnia got alittle greedy on the profit margin on the 9,more gross if you would! Don't guess they thought all us eng types would go under the hood literally on the 9.Critique is always a good thing though.Have to admit i was shocked and amazed!!
Leif is a top notch guy and it will improve,but then the price point may get close to the 11 and that may be an issue.All these high end boxes are just too expensive for most players,truth be known..Only so many ways to manipulate audio.
Leif is a top notch guy and it will improve,but then the price point may get close to the 11 and that may be an issue.All these high end boxes are just too expensive for most players,truth be known..Only so many ways to manipulate audio.
I really don't mind the PC based part of this. I do *think* that this box should have a 6,000 price point. They would sell many more of them and still make a healthy profit.
Of course, I could be wrong. It does sound great and maybe people will choose it over an 11. I know that I would never be able to talk our owner into spending more than 5-6K on a processor. I'd be pushing it then. At least both companies make a good mid grade product for the little guys.
I agree that they should make the wiring much more professional on the inside. I build computers almost every day and they all look better than that.
Of course, I could be wrong. It does sound great and maybe people will choose it over an 11. I know that I would never be able to talk our owner into spending more than 5-6K on a processor. I'd be pushing it then. At least both companies make a good mid grade product for the little guys.
I agree that they should make the wiring much more professional on the inside. I build computers almost every day and they all look better than that.
Ever heard of the UPS bounce?? I always write "Fragile,Throw Underhand" when i send stuff UPS. Might explain why Leif glued that baby down
Group,
A few thoughts regarding this topic. There are numerous broadcast products, today, that are built around a PC motherboard, and the price of those is on par, or more than Omnia.9. I've seen a few TV related devices, manufactured by other companies, that cost more than double of Omnia.9, and they're of the same vintage.
I keep reading, in this thread, comments comparing Omnia.9 to Leif's BBP, and the price difference. While designed around a common core, they are different products. BBP does not offer the range of flexibility, and detailed features Omnia.9 does. There is value in having access to everything, and all of the detailed parameters. Consider BBP the LTE version of Omnia.9, just as you would consider most popular computer programs. The full up version costs more, a lot more. Same applies here. Omnia.9 contains aspects that BBP does not. Please don't misunderstand, BBP is a great device, and I'll bet Leif now knows he could have charged more for BBP. It would still have sold the same number of instances, and the marketplace would still love it as much as they do today.
For those who wish to compare Omnia.9 to your own PC based BBP on-air processor, once the cost of good firmware is factored in, the cost difference comes down the difference in features and flexibility. Also, Omnia.9 provides a full warranty for the entire product. If you self-build a PC, install BBP, and then your 192kHz I/O card dies and puts you off the air, will there be any warranty service available to you 24/7/365 just like Omnia offers? I doubt it. BTW: I don't know if there's another processor company that offers 24/7/365 support.
All the preceding having been said, we really do read with interest the thoughts from all of you..AND...we do take your thoughts into consideration as we move forward. Thanks for your feedback, input, and suggestions.
-Frank Foti
A few thoughts regarding this topic. There are numerous broadcast products, today, that are built around a PC motherboard, and the price of those is on par, or more than Omnia.9. I've seen a few TV related devices, manufactured by other companies, that cost more than double of Omnia.9, and they're of the same vintage.
I keep reading, in this thread, comments comparing Omnia.9 to Leif's BBP, and the price difference. While designed around a common core, they are different products. BBP does not offer the range of flexibility, and detailed features Omnia.9 does. There is value in having access to everything, and all of the detailed parameters. Consider BBP the LTE version of Omnia.9, just as you would consider most popular computer programs. The full up version costs more, a lot more. Same applies here. Omnia.9 contains aspects that BBP does not. Please don't misunderstand, BBP is a great device, and I'll bet Leif now knows he could have charged more for BBP. It would still have sold the same number of instances, and the marketplace would still love it as much as they do today.
For those who wish to compare Omnia.9 to your own PC based BBP on-air processor, once the cost of good firmware is factored in, the cost difference comes down the difference in features and flexibility. Also, Omnia.9 provides a full warranty for the entire product. If you self-build a PC, install BBP, and then your 192kHz I/O card dies and puts you off the air, will there be any warranty service available to you 24/7/365 just like Omnia offers? I doubt it. BTW: I don't know if there's another processor company that offers 24/7/365 support.
All the preceding having been said, we really do read with interest the thoughts from all of you..AND...we do take your thoughts into consideration as we move forward. Thanks for your feedback, input, and suggestions.
-Frank Foti
satech said:
I agree on this. If that Omnia 9 dies, you are going to be on a backup processor until you get a replacement or repair. Any good IT man would have a spare Motherboard, Ram, CPU, SSD, & Soundcard if they built a processing box.
If you Omnia 11, 8600, One, AirAura, 8400 etc. dies you're also going to be on a backup processor.
I still don't get this visceral reaction to it being a PC board inside. You're paying for the software development costs and a bit for the hardware. The hardware has the same reliability as your file server does. And if something does go to crap, you could go to a computer store and get a part for anything except the I/O board if it was a dire emergency.
Look at what a good automation system costs. How much of that is the hardware cost? How much of that is software development and support?
I still don't get this visceral reaction to it being a PC board inside. You're paying for the software development costs and a bit for the hardware. The hardware has the same reliability as your file server does. And if something does go to crap, you could go to a computer store and get a part for anything except the I/O board if it was a dire emergency.
Look at what a good automation system costs. How much of that is the hardware cost? How much of that is software development and support?
You bring up a very valid point. IF it is computer parts, either your own or within the 9, chances are you could probably "fix it" easier in the field than propriatry boards and accessories. Industry standard has some real advantages like that.
satech said:
I doubt you would find the compatible board to work with embedded XP.
Now there's an interesting thought indeed... But I too have doubts swapping the MB for another one will get it going again. How much does a motherboard for the O.9 cost as a spare part? Basically, if you have a cloned SSD and a MB onsite... those are the most prone to failure. PSU is redundant, you don't need the screen and just have to trust the I/O board.WNTIRadio said:
BTW: the thread has been removed from the Breakaway forumWith what a used PC from PlayItAgain goes for ($135 including a fresh XP Pro install including shipping), a $250 or so Marian Trace Alpha sound card and a copy of BBP, having a backup processor is so cheap that there's no reason at all not to have one.Turnpike Tuner said:
I haven't investigated the insides of the Omnia 9, but I have opened an Omnia 11. True, there is an Intel CPU somewhere in there attached to the big heat sink and there are a couple of Ethernet cables inside. But I don't find this problematic and in fact I'm most impressed by the build quality of the Omnia 11. There is nothing in there that I thought needed improving. I especially like that it's completely passively cooled (the same as the Axia console engines) and there are no fans or any other moving parts inside that could become noisy or fail. I'm not a fan of fans I think Omnia even increased the number of the screws on the top lid compared to Omnia 6, which had something like 20 screws. It's just a very solid, robust hardware.
As far as computer CPU being used, instead of dedicated DSP chips (Omnia 11 uses both) I don't see a problem there either. Obviously the cost/performance ratio of the modern computer CPUs has surpassed that of a dedicated DSP chips. And what exactly is the difference in regards to what kind of chip runs the algorithms? I don' think dedicated DSP chips last any longer that computer CPU chips or vice versa. I've never had a computer CPU fail on me and they usually operate for more than a decade, only to be replaced with newer technology, not because they fail.
Regards,
Goran Tomas
I think Omnia even increased the number of the screws on the top lid compared to Omnia 6, which had something like 20 screws. It's just a very solid, robust hardware. As far as computer CPU being used, instead of dedicated DSP chips (Omnia 11 uses both) I don't see a problem there either. Obviously the cost/performance ratio of the modern computer CPUs has surpassed that of a dedicated DSP chips. And what exactly is the difference in regards to what kind of chip runs the algorithms? I don' think dedicated DSP chips last any longer that computer CPU chips or vice versa. I've never had a computer CPU fail on me and they usually operate for more than a decade, only to be replaced with newer technology, not because they fail.
Regards,
Goran Tomas
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